Guys Here's the Current "Welcome to the 90 Day Chart Letter"
I'd like to propose a new Letter

Hi markz,

Congratulations on beginning your journey to freedom. You have been added to the 90 Day Journey chart. (Note: If you have less than one day clean, you won't see your name on the chart yet).

May the date Aug 13, 2015 (28 Av, 5775) be a date you will remember your whole life as the day you began to seriously work to break on breaking free. After 90 days clean you will earn your place on the "Wall of Honor"
The chart will not prevent falls and slips

• If you are a struggler and put good controls in place you have a good chance of success.
• If you are an addict or undeterrmined, you will learn very quickly usually within 30 days, that you will need to upgrade your sobriety tools to make it to 90 days. The chart is a great tool to encourage the addict to deal with his unmanageable life

"Today is day 1 - What are you gonna do to be sober today?"

For Strugglers

For Sexaholics

Many have reached 90 days with the chart (and before the chart), but fallen again later (or before). This is because their challenge is only when encountering lust situations, and at those times the chart often doesn't restrain. We highly recommend you also consider putting up a filter to prevent challenging situations, and also see our Blue level tools shown on the homepage

Scientific studies have shown that it takes 90 days to change a neural thought pattern that was ingrained in the brain through addictive behaviors. It very rare for addicts to reach 90 days with the chart alone. Yes, we all want to pass 90 days, and the chart can help, but the primary tools to arrive there is not via the 90 day chart. We recommend you begin with the Orange level tools shown on the homepage.

(To determine your addiction, you can take the 'Addict or Not Test' HERE - see more below)

Download your own PERSONAL "90 Day chart" as well on this page to print out!

We can also find the idea of 90 in Chazal. Thirty days is 90 Shmoneh Esreis! Chazal knew that it takes 90 times of doing something (e.g. "v'sen tal u'matar") to get the mind used to it.

The Hebrew letter “Tzadi” – which symbolizes someone who is morally pure, also equals 90 in Gematria!


This is my newly edited letter I think new Charters should recieve.
Why is this important?
My main issue is not to diagnose character types, but that Im sure many try and fail the Chart, and then say 'who needs gye'?

Yes, it's true that GYE has the Initial Evaluation page - But all new charters should be advised about this when beginnin'.

Please read the complete recent discussion about 90-days HERE

Here's more about Addicts and Non addicts HERE and HERE.
And Yes we should have debate about the definition of Addicts too and get that down on 1 page - I know others would like it too.

The links I put were just for sample purposes

I like the original better. More to the point. Your version is too confusing. Am I an addict ir not what other tools. Do I really need all this. The letter is about breaking a habit and that is what the 90 day chart is about.

MBJ wrote:

Ok MBJ the Debate is beginning now, thanks for taking the plunge

You say "The letter is about breaking a habit"... Which NO-Addict has done with the Chart alone (there may be freak exception), and is almost pointless for a non addicts, as I explained

I realized along the way that I have too problems
1. An emotional dependence on lust and an obsession for it.
2. A very strong habit to masturbate and look at women because I have repeated that action so many many times in my life.

You are right the chart will do nothing for 1. For that I need recovery. But I have had much success in the past using the chart to deal with 2.

Also you can't force recovery on anyone. People will come to it when they are ready. I would prefer it was kept simple and to the point for those just starting as opposed to bombarding them with too much information.

Personally I don't like generalisations on GYE. IMO The less said to new charters the better. Let them see for themselves if it works for them or not.

But that takes honesty. Real honesty. It's not easy to be truly honest. It's not easy to honestly answer the questions that really matter here on GYE:

Is the method I'm currently using working or am I fooling myself?
Do I really want to stop?

For me I lied to myself about both of those questions for years and my disease progressed. It's when I'm prepared to be really honest with myself, even if it's painful, that recovery can begin.

I feel we need more honesty and less debating.

MBJ and the Detective raised good points

However it's not fair!
It's not fair to each guy that joins this website. I think initialy most join the chart (count for yourself how many there are now - there are plenty), and possibly nothing else.

It's not fair to all these guys, including myself to be given a runaround.
Yeah come join, but we're not gonna tell you you're being setup for failure.
I was very honest with myself when joining the website, so why do I have to suffer the trials of failure that Watson did, till you discover the truth? Or just dump guardyoureyes

And MBJs point of not stuffing is correct. That's why I wouldn't put it on the Chart 'application' page, but somewhere close, or the follow up email

It has to happen in G-d's time, there's no way to hurry up the process, no matter how much you wish you could.

I know in my case plenty tried, none succeeded. Unfortunately as an addict pain seems to be the only teacher I have.



(You're also speculating as to the success of the 90 day chart. You wouldn't know if someone was successful by using the chart only because they would have never joined the forum to tell you. By it's very nature you would only have come across cases where it's failed.)

The best method, like the doc said above, is trial and error.
Each person should honestly see what works and what doesn't.

b'hatzlachah

MBJ wrote:
When you had 90 day sobriety from #2, with the chart - was that with a chart exclusively, or were you using any other recovery tools simultaneously?

Cordnoy wrote:
I need someone to explain this to me please. Is our job is to take a back seat and let people find out themselves?

So why were you proposin' the Dear Rav Letter askin' the Rav to encourage people to deal with their lustin'? We could just put out gye flyers in the shul, that's sufficient. Shouldn't the Rebbe just sit back and let them learn the hard way? No.

And if someone creates an account with this website, should we not grant him even more, and not leave them in the dark for them to fall?
Or has your opinion changed recently?

Some more about the chart:
BTW, how many guys keep falling - repeating the chart, and how many start true sobriety?

I'd be interested to know the statistics of how many guys created an account, joined the chart and nothing else, and are now gone with the wind

I know full well that recovery requires internal impetus, but every subscriber to this website, is declaring his will

How about GYE drops the 90 day chart from being standalone, to rather be found only on the other tool pages, and should advertise that the chart can complement the 12 step, or filter, or taphsic.

I'm just sharing ideas with my good friends, and the debate has another 89 days to go...

As much as I wish I could force people to recover I cannot. Heck I can't even force myself to recover. I can only choose to recover.

But people have to be aware of the tools out there. And if someone goes to a rav for help he has to be aware of the issues and where he can direct the supplicant.

As such the 90 days is one of many tools and I think the GYE does a good job of promoting those tools even for someone who just signs up for the chart. I know I get an email regularly to check up on the tools I am not yet using.

In short, let people come, let them start slowly, let them take the steps THEY need to get better. I don't want someone who starts the 90 to see the word addict and go running for the hills.

As for your personal question. I was posting on the forum and chatting here my first time through the 90.

markz wrote:


Regardin' the site, we should state our opinions and help guide people. Sometimes they need a bit of cajolin' or encouragement.

Regardin' the letter, that was to inform the rabbinate as to what is goin' on....I see no comparison to your issue.

I had no idea if I was an addict or not when I joined. I could have taken 15,000 polls it wouldn't have helped. Until i got in the mindset (thanks 2 the forums and other ppl) of recovery that I would join SA nothing else mattered. Presenting the option right away won't help i don't think. also it kinda makes it sound like forcing recovery.

also, i would leave the site direction up to the ppl who run this site and the "higher ups". they are doing a very good job b"h. i'm trying to release control on my life and help others, i don't think it would be a good idea for me to start trying to control. the one time i commented about the whole 90 day thing was in the worst bout of addiction i had ever had. (ayin haforum sheli)

Everyone was discussing whether it should be in the letter or not, but seemingly all agree with me that the solutions for addicts and non addicts differ, and what they are approximately, and also how much the 90 day chart can offer on its own.
So is the debate concluded?

Whether this is connected or not, you gotta make sure to READ TODAYS EMAIL "The Addiction.com Debate: Is Sex Addiction a True Addiction?"

What email?