Just saw a moiridika vort on the parsha. I must share it with my fellow fighters. 

“The most important thing is sincerity. Once you can fake that, the rest is easy.”
-Groucho Marks.

altehmirrer wrote on 09 Jun 2025 03:18:

First of all, i was mispalel for you, begging g-d with all my heart to look at all the hard work you put in, and send you a refuah shleima.

Secondly, I was wondering how the flip did did you fall through a day after being diagnosed?!?

I felt totally violated by this post. I would recommend you edit it, and add at the beginning that this is a parody post.

Hoping you realize what this post can do to other people, 

 Sincerely Yosef

Walking around high and drunk at your cousin's bar mitzvah, and find yourself in a elevator to a random destination.

youknowwho wrote on 02 Jul 2025 04:24:

Depending on the level of trauma, after one has allowed themselves an appropriate stay of victimhood, they may owe it to themselves to not stay stuck.

I think someone lowered my Karma. I dont care about the karma, but I do care about hurting people, if that was the case, please post so or pm me.

Thanks.

My wife was having some hummus with pretzels today. The baby (somewhere above 1 year, who counts months anyway?) sees this, and starts demanding his own portion. My wife’s like “okay, sure. As you wish”. 
L’maasah, the kid pounded. 
We hold he probably thought it was a type of ice cream (#BusinessIdea???)

youknowwho wrote on 02 Jul 2025 04:24:

Hold on!!! I am very very sorry if offended anyone that is suffering, and for sure from traumatic abuse. Period.

I am just trying to discuss this topic as I believe I also had tremendous pain from the system, which this thread started off with. I'm not going to go through my full trauma list as well. But I think based on how this conversation started I can share my opinion. My opinion is just an opinion and you can throw it in the yam hagadol or yam hakatan (whatever that is, actually whatever both of them are) if you'd like. Fair?

If this was a conversation devoted just for survivors of severe sexual abuse or something like that, I probably wouldnt post no matter what I thought.
But the system and religious pain, and even suffering alot from it, I think is maybe more common than we would wish and pretty much fair game for many people to opine on. 

I'm just gonna try to clarify and its probably my fault and not writing my posts well, I'm not sure.

Space to grieve I agree on, not preaching that the ideal to forgive as automatic I agree on as well. I specifically said Im not talking about obligation so I'm not talking about whether a survivor of any sort of abuse has to forgive. I also mentioned before I'm not talking about where the abuser (the kind that this thread was presented to be based on) is a רשע.

I was talking about do you graduate to step two (Not shoving in step 1!) or is at l'chatchila to stay at this grieving stage, even in mindset. You seem to say it is and I say its not. You say you shouldn't move goalposts. And I say that the healthy thing is to move goalposts - at some point. Im saying that there should be a point where moving on in perspective is the goal. I guess you can define anything as l'chatchila because its all levels. But I definetely dont think its ideal or better put, healthy for the victim to not have the mindset shift Im talking about. 
You put it very well with your word "l'chatchila" that sums it up. Like, think of any mussar sefer, they are preaching ideals, correct? We all still should want them, no? Chayiv adam loimar musai yagiyu masai lmasai avoisai. (News flash, it was just reported that there STILL remains only one Avraham, Yitzchok, and Yaakov! and even bigger news flash, our sources tell us its not looking better anytime soon...) Sheifos are part of every yid. (And thats an obligation, by the way!!) Why? Cuz mindset makes a difference. (The mindset here is a bit different its not about being bigger its just about accepting whats healthy and thearby already connecting oneslf to relying on and connecting to Hashem.) 
Even if it's not practical for an individual at the moment. I just think that what I said about a mindset tweak is easier than forgiving/being told to forgive or you should forgive etc.
Its about aknowledging whats ultimately healthy. Where you are at that point. And where you hope to get to. That is l'chatchila and should be done.
I think you understand me. 
I think I understand Bright. 
And I think we disagree.

And thats totally ok.

Now I can be wrong about that too... my opinion anyway, again I dont mean any harm.

I really do love this discussion. I think it has helped me clarify certain things that I have felt for a while and have not put words to it. So even if you disagree, thank you to all those contributing.

(P.S. someone that is now in raging pain should ignore my post. I dont think its appropriate to even read then. But otherwise, I think its true.)

If my posts on this thread are just bringing up pain and anger than Im just apologizing and I plan to stop. I think everyone has read and can make their own conclusions regarding what best applies to them.

trueme wrote on 02 Jul 2025 03:30:

Unless I am totally misunderstanding you, I am having trouble comprehending your point. 

What Bright is saying is quite simple. A victim of traumatic abuse should have the space to feel a "victimized" mindset, a mindset where he comes to terms with the fact that he was damaged and abused. Space to grieve, feel the pain, the betrayal, the hurt. Space to feel wronged, space to feel that it is the perpetrator who owes him a debt of forgiveness. 

And, to quote, "This widespread "turn the other cheek" idea — where forgiveness is preached as the automatic and ideal response — is, in my view, mistaken."

Trying to shove a victim of traumatic abuse into the perspective of "I definitely want to get to that place where I can let go and acknowledge that it's all Hashem and all the puppets don't make a damn difference", or  "but I think it is helpful to recognize the truth...when we will be holding there is different but at least we have the proper goal posts so we can say that we are trying"...READ: "Sheyfelah tayareh, we all know you need  "alot of validation and comfort", BUT...you should just know that "x" is your "true goal post" , is inherently counterproductive and obscuring the point. 

It is not some kind of b'dieved for a victim of traumatic abuse to approach it this way. It is totally l'chatchilah. The survivor of traumatic abuse owes nothing, not forgiveness, nor acceptance to the perpetrator, and Hashem understands that. No need to start moving any goalposts, or be at the beginning, end or middle of any kind of mindset shift. 

I daresay a victim of traumatic abuse may very well find your comments offensive.

bright wrote on 01 Jul 2025 04:57:

I really enjoy this discussion.

Thanks to R' Bright for bringing it up and to all for all the insightful מראה מקומות.

Trauma is a complicated sugya, and Im not a therapist.

The point of my post is not to bring out whether one should be mochel those that caused him pain or trauma. I think it's very likely that if a person is not holding by letting go and prematurely saying he is moichel, and there was no outreach from the offender to show remorse and ask forgiveness - that can be theoretically be (very) detrimental and cause perhaps further anguish to the victim.

That is a personal shaylah and needs personal introspection and a mentor. 

What I am saying is a shift in perspective. And as I said, its far from academic. Hear me out.

I think that if a person aknowledges that although he is not ready, and its not even right for him to (just) go and be moichel the offender (no matter who, an abusive rebbi, parent, "friend", etc.) just firmly accepting that letting go and being moichel, (cuz it's all Hashem's loving hand guiding us to the best destination for us is the eventual goal) already gives a person peace and a healthier mindset. 

Think about it, who's happier, the guy running around with a bag of rocks and gripes and justified - "I hate them and Im not moichel them"! "Forever"! Or the guy that thinks (and lives) "Hey, Im not ready to be moichel now, I don't know if I will ever be, that depends on my growth and well being. But I definetely want to get to that place where I can let go and aknowledge that it's all Hashem and all the puppets dont make a damn difference". (excuse my french there really is just no better word that fits better, sorry.) 

That is a world of a difference. Your already accepting. Your accepting yourself that your not ready to forgive. That's ok, your not obligated too. Your accepting the TRUTH, that this whole world is merely a facade and its Hashem's loving program, we just dont get it yet, and that's ok too. This world is just a hallway, the main show and understanding is soon to come! (Long live everyone till 120, o' course) These are major positive mindsets and mindshifts that have NOTHING to do with whether you are or are not moichel. I think I worded my earlier post in a wrong way. (Not that anyone gives a ______ (Here too the above word is best but too many exceptions are no good ) I said before there is an argument you should be moichel, I mean in concept, how practical it is depends on the individual. But the mindset! That mindset is gold. And the other mindset, perhaps can serve somewhat as a validation of the pain...but I think long term it just produces a bitterness, and perhaps a bitter person who is going to find ALOT to complain about. That's part of the nisayon of this world. Either we are (at least) trying and on the track of totally accepting Hashem (beginning of chovos halevavos shaar habitachon - like an eved is chayiv to rely on his master) or we are on track for misery. Like Rabbeinu Tam is famously magdir this world as a נוה התלאות. (House of horrors might be a good translation - eh?) But mindset and focus and eventually Bitachon in Hashem make a big difference.

If this post was offensive, I apologize. But I think its true. I will yield that people in midst of intense pain need alot of validation and comfort. But at a certain point we want to get better and healthy and starting on that track is easier than many might think.

Hi i would like to vent a little, today i went to the doctor an hour away for my wife, she gets so nervous and irrational, i get so fed up!!!!!!!! she closes up there's noone home it frustrates me to no end, i know it's ok and we'll be ok it's just angers me, i know it's not her fault or anything but it just triggers me, especially because i am so the opposite, that's it, good night!

chosemyshem wrote on 01 Jul 2025 14:40:

Tzara dgufa likely doesn't help unless it's a real mechila. Regardless, it's a davar shebilev, without a source its hard to bring from monetary matters that a mecheila bpeh works. Also, I apologize if I wasn't clear, having taanos is not the same as hating. As Yitzchok said, that is a question for a rav.

iyh2023 wrote on 01 Jul 2025 14:44:

Yeah, don’t you love bumping into people by the mik?

My friend, I think it stops counting at 175 days if someone isn't logging in.

thompson wrote on 01 Jul 2025 20:15:

I’m blown away. Deeply moved and impressed both by the content and deep truth you’re describing, and by your personal courage. 
You get the full 21 gun salute. 
and my genuine best wishes.

Chaim

I have honestly never looked at the wall of honor