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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk
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Im Paga be’cha menuval zeh, mushchei'hu le- BEIS HAMEDRASH! This board is for divrei Torah relating to our struggle with the Yetzer Hara, from the entire spectrum of Tanach, Chazal, Mussar and Chassidus. On this board there will be no posts about personal struggles and no debates. Only TORAH CHIZUK.
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TOPIC: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 69045 Views

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 02 Dec 2015 03:57 #270101

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  1. TORAH TAVLIN: a) Torah is not a blanket protection and can actually do the opposite if not approached correctly.  b) May not work for all forms ofYetzer Hara
  2. Gd wants our small sacrifice and effort
  3. ODAAT: One Day at a Time. And a nice source for ODAAT.
  4. DO SOMETHING: When facing a personal challenge,We can't say "I tried, I cried, I prayed", No no no! Do something positive!!
  5. BECHIRA: The "main" bechira we have is to avoid triggering situations in the first place
  6. THE 3 SECOND RULE: The pasuk is telling us - do not follow your heart to take that second look
  7. THE REAL PROBLEM: To me it seems poshut that the problem is lusting not shmiras eynayim
  8. WHITE KNUCLING: Is not the Torah way so cut the Confrontations . Which according to the Torah way will not succeed
  9. Is everyone in the world an addict?
  10. WIFE: Is she your Pas Besalo?
    :pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
  11. INTENT: I'm a lustaholic and I want Intimacy leshem shamayim. Honest?
  12. TESHUVA: Teshuva (the way we understand it) is NOT recovery but a ploy
  13. in the Zohar, it is said the sin of wasted seed is the worst sin for which no recovery is possible. And that relations with non-Jews attaches to us even in Olam Haba. What are the defenses against these charges?

SCOURCES:
  1. The prohibition of V'NISHMARTA and V'LO SASURU
  2. including undressed unmarried gentile women
  3. A wife is like bread?

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  2. Thank Gd - Al Hanissim
  3. The 3 Weeks - We are building the Beis Hamikdash with GYE
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Last Edit: 25 Sep 2016 18:44 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:52 #270208

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INDEX quotes (from other threads)

1- Repent! For addiction its enough the tremendous effort and accomplishment of getting over the addiction! Rav Wosner
2- moshol by Watson
3- Can we truly correct 30 years and have a תחיית המתים in 90 days?
4- What in the world does Hashem want from me?
5- The Torah approach to Sobriety
6- Great Shiurim
7- Could one have an excuse to act out
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Last Edit: 08 May 2016 16:02 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:52 #270209

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TORAH TAVLIN FOR ADDICTS?

I hope everyone has been following the current great Chizuk emails on this topic by Dov

Here's my 2 cents

We all know the story of one of the most famous Amoraim R' Nachman bar Yitzchak (the Rebbi of Abaya)

When he was a child, a stargazer told his mother he's destined to be a robber. She instructed her son to keep a Yarmulka on his head and Daven.

The Gemara relates that one day he was deep in his learning, and his head covering fell off. Immediately the Yetzer Hara grabbed hold and overpowered him
יומא חד יתיב קא גריס תותי דיקלא נפל גלימא מעילויה רישיה דלי עיניה חזא לדיקלא אלמיה יצריה סליק פסקיה לקיבורא בשיניה
(סוף מס' שבת)

This Gemara is astounding!
If my understanding is correct, the heilige Gemara that I love so dearly, is teaching a profound lesson - that Gemara Tavlin is not the solution to all Yetzer Hara's, even if you are the Godol hador.


Many of us will accept that argument, but will not be ready to take it to the next level

There are many that will say "Ok I concede, Limud Hatorah isn't going to gain me sobriety BUT I will only take recovery steps IF they are mentioned in the Torah, otherwise I won't, e.g. the 12 steps".

If you really aren't interested in sobriety, you(r YH) will easily be able to shlog op any proofs showing that the 12 steps are found in the Torah

Secondly - having to find proofs in the Torah is only something our YH demands, so that he can keep us under his thumb, it's not coming from a healthy place.

If the Torah demands of us to be sober, and the tools are staring you in the face, no more explanation necessary!

Baby steps... Easy does it my friends!!
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Last Edit: 25 May 2016 01:43 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:53 #270210

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DO I NEED TO GO THE EXTRA INCH?


markz wrote:

my friend wrote:

I am a respected bal habays in my mid 30's who is kovei etim and davens with minyanim daily

Your davenin' and learnin' may mean nothing to Gd, cos it's just something you do naturally....
We only earn points when we do ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when we do ONE percent of that!

All the best my good friend

eslaasos wrote:

Please don't say the learning and davening of a compulsive luster may mean nothing to G-d. If you do, please back it up with a source.


markz wrote:
Waydown I want to apologize to you if I came across a little harsh, as though I was saying your תורה ומצות aren't worth כלום. I wasn't trying to say that AT ALL
I was saying that we all have our little struggle, and I will confess - one of my little struggles is to say things nicely - I'm not very good at that - my wife knows all about it too...


markz wrote:
As I said above i should've written it a little lighter - sorry about that.
Yes there are sparks of genuineness at THE BARE MINIMUM.
but I was making a point which is valid
You Shlomo 24/7 is a good example of someone that has
done ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when ONE percent of that! (You did alot more than 1%)

This is is why I complimented you on your thread for being strong even during vacation period.
A bachur that behaves in yeshiva - yes he will be rewarded by Gd - BUT that doesn't define who he is. He in essence may be a porn addict, only cant act out due to some restraints (this was the idea mentioned by R' Yisroel Salanter ibid)
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Last Edit: 03 Dec 2015 11:48 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:53 #270211

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eslaasos wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos and Shlomo, sorry I should've written it a little lighter. But the point was valid
eslaasos wrote:
please back it up with a source

R Yisroel Salanter

image.jpg


Mark, thanks for the source. Tzorich iyun godol, and I don't just mean I don't have an answer for you, which is also true, I mean that I don't think it's as straightforward as you present it, but I don't have the yedios to answer. I'll keep this in mind in my future travels.


Markz, just a thought that was discussed on Shabbos. One aspect of Avrohom Avinu's biggest test was to be an achzor, the opposite of his middah of chesed. However he (perhaps primarily) invested his efforts in utilizing his inborn middah of chesed as his way of serving Hashem.
There is a Gemara that brings this out, but I don't want to make this a long post. If you think this will become a separate conversation, maybe open a new thread in the Beis Hamedrash section.

Waydown, sorry to interrupt your conversation, please carry on. I just wanted to respond to Markz on his post from R' Yisroel Salanter that happens to be a few pages back in your thread.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:54 #270212

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

Avraham avinu utilized his natural middah to perform his avoda which was full of mesiras nefesh. For example he was one person bringing amunah into the world against everyone else. This was an uphill battle envolving mesiras nefesh mamash. He harnassed and utilized his best faculties in this avodah so he used his midas hachesed which was a natural strength. Had he tried to do it with midas hagvurah he would have been less effective because that was not his greatest strength. When it was necessary, of course, he worked with that middah too, like by the akaida. But for a person to just kind of sit back and let his nature lead him in the course of no resistance, that's what Reb Yisrael Salanter is referring to. And this has infinite levels, and to the extent that a person pushes himself beyond his natural comfort zone to do mitzvos, so is the chashivus of his avoda. We should all do mitzvos utilizing our strengths but demanding of ourselves to go the extra mile.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:54 #270213

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eslaasos wrote:
That makes a lot of sense, thank you for the elucidation.
I still don't like the original comment that the learning and davening of a luster may not be worth anything. First, I don't think it's possible to stay consistent with shemiras hasedarim and tefillah btzibur without mesiras nefesh.
My second issue that there is inherent value in learning and davening even if it does become more habitual and requires less sacrifice seems to be the subject of the quote. The quote initially seems to go beyond your understanding - "The obligation is to strive in Avodas Hashem, not to only keep what his nature allows, and what is a little difficult...this can be termed a Porek Ol". However the next sentence seems to be more in line with your understanding - "if he does not put any effort into his Avodas Hashem".
I'm not familiar with the style of this author to be able to be medayek the nuances, so unless someone has more to add I'm fine with your interpretation.

Agav, I believe Rav Dessler has a concept that true lishmah is when the mitzvos become so naturally a part of you that you can't envision yourself not doing them. The same way you wake up, get out of bed and get dressed, part of the morning process is washing your hands and saying Modeh Ani. This requires no mesiras nefesh.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 03:54 #270214

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

Obviously we must strive to become a person with good values and middos and keeping The Torah is the formula to make that happen. When that happens it has tremendous inherent value, but his 'avoda' then moves on to continue to improve where he has not yet reached. If a person at any point says 'well at this point I'm good enough as I am so no more striving and hard work is necessary' then he has ceased to do 'avoda' and he is neglecting his further responsibilities to do what he has not yet done, because the avoda is never finished no matter how good his midos have reached so far. If he does stop to continue this 'avoda' at that point he is a porek ol.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 05:14 #270227

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Hi Markz,
A very good evening to you, and I'm sure that you won't see this until tomorrow because of your good-night device.

Maybe you can help me understand your points above.

markz wrote:
markz wrote:

my friend wrote:

I am a respected bal habays in my mid 30's who is kovei etim and davens with minyanim daily

Your davenin' and learnin' may mean nothing to Gd, cos it's just something you do naturally....
We only earn points when we do ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when we do ONE percent of that!

All the best my good friend

eslaasos wrote:

Please don't say the learning and davening of a compulsive luster may mean nothing to G-d. If you do, please back it up with a source.


markz wrote:
Waydown I want to apologize to you if I came across a little harsh, as though I was saying your תורה ומצות aren't worth כלום. I wasn't trying to say that AT ALL
I was saying that we all have our little struggle, and I will confess - one of my little struggles is to say things nicely - I'm not very good at that - my wife knows all about it too...


markz wrote:
As I said above i should've written it a little lighter - sorry about that.
Yes there are sparks of genuineness at THE BARE MINIMUM.
but I was making a point which is valid


I'm not getting your point. I think we've agreed that if a guy finds it easier to be moser nefesh for learning and davening than being moser nefesh in shmiras eynayim and kedusha, that's not a reason not to continue putting in efforts into learning and davening. It's also doesn't relieve him of his obligation to fight the battle of kedusha, but so what? Is your point that if he ignores the second responsibility he is culpable? I think that's also something we can agree on.

markz
You Shlomo 24/7 is a good example of someone that has
done ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when ONE percent of that! (You did alot more than 1%)

This is is why I complimented you on your thread for being strong even during vacation period.
A bachur that behaves in yeshiva - yes he will be rewarded by Gd - BUT that doesn't define who he is. He in essence may be a porn addict, only cant act out due to some restraints (this was the idea mentioned by R' Yisroel Salanter ibid)

Again I'm missing your point. Why does it matter how Shlomo is defined, and why does he have to be defined as any one thing?

Lastly, how does this tie in to the Torah Tavlin theme? I admit it, I am not overly familiar with it as I am not a fan of the level of press given to this theme, as I think it's not the mehalech for the majority as the author himself has written. Perhaps Torah and Tefillah are part of the hishtadlus for overcoming lust or lust addiction?
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Last Edit: 03 Dec 2015 05:15 by eslaasos.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 12:17 #270245

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Eslaasos,

I moved those posts here, because the topic has been well discussed especially with your kind participation, and I wanted it to be moved out of a personal story thread.

I had another 2 cents to add, which I hope to later today.

"Lastly, how does this tie in to the Torah Tavlin theme?"
None. See the index, and I updated the header of our shared topic - see above

Thanks for your chizuk, an your new signature
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 12:35 #270246

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Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

Avraham avinu utilized his natural middah to perform his avoda which was full of mesiras nefesh. For example he was one person bringing amunah into the world against everyone else. This was an uphill battle envolving mesiras nefesh mamash. He harnassed and utilized his best faculties in this avodah so he used his midas hachesed which was a natural strength. Had he tried to do it with midas hagvurah he would have been less effective because that was not his greatest strength. When it was necessary, of course, he worked with that middah too, like by the akaida. But for a person to just kind of sit back and let his nature lead him in the course of no resistance, that's what Reb Yisrael Salanter is referring to. And this has infinite levels, and to the extent that a person pushes himself beyond his natural comfort zone to do mitzvos, so is the chashivus of his avoda. We should all do mitzvos utilizing our strengths but demanding of ourselves to go the extra mile.

avrahamavinu.jpg
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Last Edit: 03 Dec 2015 12:36 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Dec 2015 19:52 #270332

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כתב בספר החסידים שעל מצוה אחת שיצרו של אדם מתגרה בו ותוקפו להעבירו על דעת קונו, והוא כופה את יצרו, מקבל שכר נגד מאה מצוות שאין יצרו תוקפו. וזה טעם מאמר רבותינו זכרונם לברכה שאמרו (ברכות לד ב) במקום שבעלי תשובה עומדין, אין צדיקים גמורים יכולים לעמד. לפי שכיון שהם צדיקים דמעקרא אין להם גרוי היצר הרע כל כך כמו הבעלי תשובה שהרגלו בעברות וקשה להם לפרש מהם כפרישת הצפרן מן הבשר, הנה כי כן כאשר מתגברים על יצרם כאיש מלחמה, וכופים את יצרם, עושים נחת רוח גדול ליוצרנו ויגדל שכרם. וזה פרשו כת הקודמין מאמר רבותינו זכרונם לברכה (ברכות ח, א) גדול הנהנה מיגיעו יותר מירא שמים. דרצונם לומר, גדול הנהנה מיגיעו שיגע הרבה לכבש את יצרו, יותר ממי שהוא ירא שמים בטבע, שהנהנה מיגיעו טוב לו יותר לעולם הבא. הנה כי כן ראוי לשמח על היצר הרע שיש בנו כי על ידו אנו עושים נחת רוח ליוצרנו, ועל ידו אנו זוכים למתן שכרן של צדיקים רב טוב

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Last Edit: 03 Dec 2015 19:54 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Dec 2015 19:10 #270458

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Re: 2) Do I need to go the extra mile inch?

בן עזאי אומר הוי רץ למצוה קלה - כבר אמרו טעם בזה הדבר בפרק שני לפי שאין אתה יודע מתן שכרן של מצות. ועתה בן עזאי הוסיף טעם אחר ואמר הוי רץ למצוה קלה ובורח מן העבירה שמצוה גוררת מצוה מכח הטבע כי הוא זה. כי בעשות האדם מצוה קטנה פעם אחת הוא מתקרב את השם ומרגיל את רוחו לעבודתו ונקלה בעיניו לעשות מצוה אחרת שיש בה טורח כנגד הראשונה או יותר מעט מפני שכבר הורגל טבעו למלאכת המצוה. וכי יעשה שניה |לשלישי| |ושלישי| אף כי תהיה עליו לטורח הרבה מן הראשונות יעשנה מהרה כי כבר הרגל שולט עליו הרבה עד כי ישלוט עליו עד מאד ויעשה כל המצות כלן והעבירה גוררת עבירה גם זה מן הטבע אחר שעשה עבירה אחת ונתרחק מעבודת השם ית' כי תבא לידי עבירה אחרת אף כי אין היצר מתאוה אליה כבראשונה יעשנה כי רוחו עלול אל היצר ותוקף עליו ואם אין מתאוה גדולה בדבר ההוא אך יעשה כל העבירות כי טבעו מורגל לעשות כל תועבת השם אשר שנא. ר יונה פרקי אבות
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Last Edit: 04 Dec 2015 19:12 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2015 02:06 #270506

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To summarize the conversation above, it seems to me there is a distinction that can be summed up as the difference between Avodah and Nisayon.
Avodas Hashem is what we were born for, and one of the highest accolades a person can receive is being an eved Hashem. Odom l’omol yulad etc.
A nisayon however is something we are supposed to avoid. We daven v’al tevieinu lidei nisayon.

Perhaps Avodas Hashem is where we utilize our strengths to be marbe kvod shomayim, and a nisayon is when we are challenged by our weaknesses, or asked to overcome our natural inclinations. Both can involve mesiras nefesh, but the reward is much greater for overcoming a nisayon.
I think I posted previously a vort that bears repeating here. The chiddush of lfum tzaara agra is that even if the nisayon is self-created, it still qualifies. Most of us were not born addicts (although we may have addictive tendencies). A slip here and there became more frequent, turned into a habit, was reinforced until it became our jailer. I’m sure Markz can find the chazal about the guest who becomes the baal habayis. This still qualifies us for the status of bmakom shebaalei teshuva omdim etc. as quoted above.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2015 02:36 #270508

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eslaasos wrote:
To summarize the conversation above, it seems to me there is a distinction that can be summed up as the difference between Avodah and Nisayon.
Avodas Hashem is what we were born for, and one of the highest accolades a person can receive is being an eved Hashem. Odom l’omol yulad etc.
A nisayon however is something we are supposed to avoid. We daven v’al tevieinu lidei nisayon.

Perhaps Avodas Hashem is where we utilize our strengths to be marbe kvod shomayim, and a nisayon is when we are challenged by our weaknesses, or asked to overcome our natural inclinations. Both can involve mesiras nefesh, but the reward is much greater for overcoming a nisayon.
I think I posted previously a vort that bears repeating here. The chiddush of lfum tzaara agra is that even if the nisayon is self-created, it still qualifies. Most of us were not born addicts (although we may have addictive tendencies). A slip here and there became more frequent, turned into a habit, was reinforced until it became our jailer. I’m sure Markz can find the chazal about the guest who becomes the baal habayis. This still qualifies us for the status of bmakom shebaalei teshuva omdim etc. as quoted above.


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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2015 04:03 #270527

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markz wrote:
Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

Avraham avinu utilized his natural middah to perform his avoda which was full of mesiras nefesh. For example he was one person bringing amunah into the world against everyone else. This was an uphill battle envolving mesiras nefesh mamash. He harnassed and utilized his best faculties in this avodah so he used his midas hachesed which was a natural strength. Had he tried to do it with midas hagvurah he would have been less effective because that was not his greatest strength. When it was necessary, of course, he worked with that middah too, like by the akaida. But for a person to just kind of sit back and let his nature lead him in the course of no resistance, that's what Reb Yisrael Salanter is referring to. And this has infinite levels, and to the extent that a person pushes himself beyond his natural comfort zone to do mitzvos, so is the chashivus of his avoda. We should all do mitzvos utilizing our strengths but demanding of ourselves to go the extra mile.

avrahamavinu.jpg


Markz,
I had in mind a beautiful Gemara that brings out this point, but was too busy to look it up for a while. The Gemara is in Shabbos 89b.

אמר רבי שמואל בר נחמני אמר רבי יונתן: מאי דכתיב (ישעיהו סג) כי אתה אבינו כי אברהם לא ידענו וישראל לא יכירנו אתה ה׳ אבינו גואלנו מעולם שמך. לעתיד לבא יאמר לו הקדוש ברוך הוא לאברהם: בניך חטאו לי. אמר לפניו: רבונו של עולם ־ ימחו על קדושת שמך. אמר: אימר ליה ליעקב דהוה ליה צער גידול בנים, אפשר דבעי רחמי עלייהו. אמר ליה: בניך חטאו. ־ אמר לפניו: רבונו של עולם, ימחו על קדושת שמך. ־ אמר: לא בסבי טעמא, ולא בדרדקי עצה. אמר לו ליצחק: בניך חטאו לי. ־ אמר לפניו: רבונו של עולם, בני ולא בניך? בשעה שהקדימו לפניך נעשה לנשמע, קראת להם (שמות ד) בני בכורי, עכשיו בני ולא בניך? ועוד, כמה חטאו? כמה שנותיו של אדם ־ שבעים שנה. דל עשרין דלא ענשת עלייהו ־ פשו להו חמשין. דל עשרין וחמשה דלילותא ־ פשו להו עשרין וחמשה. דל תרתי סרי ופלגא, דצלויי ומיכל ודבית הכסא ־ פשו להו תרתי סרי ופלגא. אם אתה סובל את כולם ־ מוטב, ואם לאו ־ פלגא עלי ופלגא עליך. ואם תמצא לומר כולם עלי ־ הא קריבית נפשי קמך. פתחו ואמרו: (כי) אתה אבינו. אמר להם יצחק: עד שאתם מקלסין לי ־ קלסו להקדוש ברוך הוא, ומחוי להו יצחק הקדוש ברוך הוא בעינייהו. מיד נשאו עיניהם למרום ואומרים (ישעיהו סג) אתה ה׳ אבינו גואלנו מעולם שמך.

The Artscroll footnotes quote R' Yaakov Kamenetzky zt"l that both Avrohom and Yaakov had to overcome their natural middos during their lifetime, but Yitzchok did not. In order for Klal Yisroel to merit the final Geulah, we need the zechus of Yitzchok overcoming his middah of gevurah.

As a side note, there are other mefarshim who learn that Yitzchok overcame his middah of Gevurah by having rachmonus on Esav.

Another side note, did you notice that the Gemara ends off ומחוי להו יצחק הקדוש ברוך הוא בעינייהו with their eyes.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2015 16:25 #270559

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eslaasos wrote:
avrahamavinu.jpg
...The Artscroll footnotes quote R' Yaakov Kamenetzky zt"l that both Avrohom and Yaakov had to overcome their natural middos during their lifetime, but Yitzchok did not. In order for Klal Yisroel to merit the final Geulah, we need the zechus of Yitzchok overcoming his middah of gevurah.

As a side note, there are other mefarshim who learn that Yitzchok overcame his middah of Gevurah by having rachmonus on Esav...
I was hoping to find the Sefer that explains that point, that the Nisayon of the Avos, was to challenge them to overcome their natural middos.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2015 17:07 #270561

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ODAAT - one day at a time


Here's one nice guy for example - odaat....for six years!

Stuart & wrote:
In Rabbi Frand's Shiur last night, he quoted the Tzror HaMor who quoted a Medrash that says that when the wife of Potifar was seducing Yoseph, he was trying to say no. Finally she was able to convince him to say, "Ok not today, but tomorrow". Yoseph agreed, which ultimately saved him from this test.

This is a powerful lesson for us. When attacked with lust that feels so much stronger than us, we can tell ourselves that we'll give in, just NOT TODAY. Often we'll find that tomorrow we'll feel stronger. If not, we can again tell ourselves, JUST NOT TODAY
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What was Yosef Hatzadik's tool for success, that saved him from the wife of Potifar?

The answer may be hinted to in the Parsha.

"ויהי כדברה אליו יום יום ולא שמע אליה"
How was it that 'לא שמע אליה'? because 'כדברה אליו יום יום', when it could have said 'כדברה אליו כמה ימים'.
Yosef viewed every day as the only day

This is also an idea we can find in the current yom tov of חנוכה
The basic halacha of menora is to light
ONE CANDLE
each night. To signify that we appreciate each day of rescue from Hashem as though today is the only day

Of course, there's always room for mehadrin, which we must add upon our ODAAT, making today even better

after 5 weeks markz wrote:
The day I get to 90 days wont be my main marker. At that point I'll say העבר אין. What will be tomorrow? Who cares? העתיד עדיין.
My concern is for today... But I give up. I surrender it all to Gd.
Therefore דאגה מנין. Serious
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 10 Dec 2015 05:59 #270922

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KiviYVY wrote:
An Addicts Al Hanissim, by YVY

G-d, I don't thank You enough, but at this time of Chanuka I'm given the opportunity to focus on all that I owe as a member of the Jewish people, and as one who has been blessed with Your miracles and continues to be blessed every day. I'm indebted to You for redeeming me from the dreadful life I lived, the emptiness, the loneliness of one held prisoner by a merciless, senseless captor. Thank You for revealing Your infinite power to me - I really needed it; I was and I still remain powerless. You saved me from definite destruction, from sinking lower and lower into my lust. You fought my battles, because I could no longer fight. You did this for our Fathers at this time of year, and I recognize this time of year as one best suited for recognizing that all my success comes from only You.

In the days of Matisyahu and his family, when the threat of the dominant culture was eating away at our deep, long standing, relationship, throwing our people into darkness, forgetting our humble submission to Your will as expressed in the Torah You gave us, driving us away from living according to Your plans, plans we had committed ourselves to, whether we understood them or not. We had this essential humility before we were overtaken by the drives to escape into the self-centered pleasures and beauty of the world around us, to replace Your plans with our fancy. We took charge. We used to crave only You, and we turned to other sources of pleasure, dark and artificial, unfulfilling and selfish.

And You, You never gave up on us. In Your great kindness, Your real feelings of mercy for us, You stood up, revealed your Awesome Wonders when we were entrenched in the narrow quarters of helplessness and isolation, our corrupt design for living. We could no longer fight - now You would fight. We couldn't reverse the damage that was done, but You could. We were weak, we are weak, we came to understand that then. When that became real to us, You quickly subdued the mighty insurmountable forces we had been fighting for years. There were so many battles, we had dug ourselves so deep, but you handed that to us too. We were drawn to so much impurity, buried in so much dirt, soiled, but You showed us we could be pure if we would only let You fight for us. Evil ones, those who were out to destroy us unmercilessly, unforgivingly, disappeared in the face of those who chose Your righteous path, those who submitted, and committed, themselves to working towards the fulfillment of only Your will.

An You thereby made for Yourself a great and holy name in the world. You made it known that miracles are ready for us when we're ready to see them and live with them. You saved Your people, You renewed the deep bond we always had, You brought redemption - ah... the relief I can and do experience today, and every day.

After our relationship was rekindled, Your precious children, recognizing the love their Father in heaven continues to have for them, came back home. They devoted themselves to clean up their side of the street, take actions to remove all resentments and false medications for pains that drew them away from You. They brought purity to Your home, understanding Your home is holy, our relationship with You is intimate and profound, and turning from You is unthinkable. They did not just recognize your love, but they took definite steps to kindle the relationship, to shine the light of their new clarity living in Your presence, in Your home. They established 8 days to focus on Your kindness then, and always, to devote to thanking You, recognizing Your infinite power to continually draw them from the ever present darkness. They take those 8 days with them throughout the year and their lives, never forgetting where they once were and the infinite light they continue to ignite and kindle.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 10 Dec 2015 14:08 #270935

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ODAAT
an honest mouse wrote:
CHIZUK FROM CHANUKA:

The miracle of the oil, was that there was only a little bit of untainted, pure oil left - only enough for 1 day, but Hashem made it last for 8 days.

Sometimes, we dont have a lot of strength in us, we feel we can only remain clean for a short while, we dont have it in us for the long haul. If we dedicate our short time clean to Hashem and say, 'this is as much as I can do, please keep me clean', He is surely able to repeat the miracle and give us the ability to remain clean for much longer!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 10 Dec 2015 20:23 #270990

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markz wrote:
[
[size=4]This Gemara is astounding!
If my understanding is correct, the heilige Gemara that I love so dearly, is teaching a profound lesson - that Gemara Tavlin is not the solution to all Yetzer Hara's, even if you are the Godol hador. [/size]


Well I was just wonderin' (throwin' in my two cents scents sense), does toirah tavlin mean limud hatoirah or following what the toirah says?
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 11 Dec 2015 14:10 #271042

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Pintele Yid wrote:
bardichev wrote on 18 Jun 2009 19:37:

reb pintele
can you please expound on the idea of
anee hashem hashochen ..bsoch tumasam..

It will be a great chizzuk
It was also never really discussed on the forum(to my knowledge)

it dovetails the words you just posted!


Holy Bardichev,

I don't remmember learning specifically on the subject but in the spirit of the Gemorah Shabbos Kuf Yud Ches Amud Bais where Reb Yosi states "In my days I never transgressed the words of my friends. I know that I am not a kohen, but if my friends asked me to go up and Duchen (say the priestly blessings), I will go" Bezres Hashem here are my thoughts:

1. It says in the Tanya in Likutai Amurim Perek Bais, our Neshamos are a Chelek Elokai Mema'al Mamish, meaning we are totally connected with Hashem. Therefore, from a practical standpoint, Hakodosh Baruch Hu made us inseparable with him under all circumstances - even when we are steeped in Tumah. To add something that is very relevant to us, since Hashem is the only "Ani",the less we feel our "Ani" and give over ourselves to his mercy, the more he will be shochain Bisochainu - helping us with our struggles. This reminds me of a story I heard from my Tanya Rebbi. There was a Talmud Chacham recluse who was also a Baal Gaava that went to visit (I think) the Baal Shem Tov. As he was walking into his study, he heard the Baal Shem Tov say, Im Yisaser Ish Bmistarim V'ani - Lo Yireno Nium Hashem. The poshut pshat of this posik means that "if someone hides in hidden places does he not think that Hashem will see him? The Baal Shem Tov changed the meaning to "If someone hides and he is a Baal Gaava, (Ani), then Hashem will not see him. The Talmd Chacham got the message and worked on himself and came back 3 years later. As he was walking into the study the Baal Shem Tov said "Im Yisaser Ish Bmistarim V'ani Lo - Yireno Nium Hashem. This means that if a person nullifies himself before Hashem, then it will result that the countenance of Hashem will shine upon him.

2. I don't remmember if he quoted this posuk but Horav Moshe Wolfson said that the Yom Tov of Chanukah symbolizes
the posuk of Hashochen ...Bsoch Tumasam. Consider this, in Torah literature, "light" symbolizes Kedusha and "dark" symolizes Tumah. "Right" symbolizes Kedusha and "left" symbolizes Tumah. Higher than 10 Tefachim from the ground Symbolizes Kedusha and lower then 10 Tefachim symolizes Tumah. The Reshus Hayachid symbolizes Kedusha and the Reshus Horabim Symbolizes Tumah. (Taking a line from Holy Barditchiv, if you are driving then pull over). Chanukah is the letters Kohen Ches, meaning every yid is a Kohen for eight days. From the aformentioned, we learn that we become Kohanim and light the menorah (ideally) outside our houses in the reshus harabim, on the left side, under 10 tefachim, during the longest nights of the year during Chodesh Teves. During Chanukah, Hashem visits us in the depths of our Tumah and helps light the fire in our hearts.

3. We are Hashem's children. We might be in golus and sometimes doing all the wrong things, but Hashem our tatte in himel will never forsake us no matter how much we dirty ourselves. Because a normal father, even if he sends his son away from him as a result of his transgressions, will always be there looking after him. How much more so our tatte bechina of Havaya, will always be there for us.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 13 Dec 2015 19:23 #271161

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battleworn wrote:
I want to address two more issues.

1) Any approach that you take is going to have to involve a serious investment. (Including time, emotional energy etc.) The only way one would invest so heavily, is if he feels that his situation is desperate enough to warrant such an investment.

So one may feel, that speaking about the great nachas ru'ach that your efforts give Hashem etc., can be harmful to the addict - making him feel that it's okay that he's addicted and he doesn't need to do anything major about it.

Here again I feel very strongly that balance is in order. Every addict must know (most people that come here know this already) that if he doesn't take very serious action, the addiction is liable to totally destroy his life in this world and the next. Being so completely involved in taivoh, is by far the greatest threat to any Jew. Of-course we can go on about this all day and not get to the end of it.

But it's also very important to know that the situation that you find yourself in, is not c'v a mistake or a stroke of bad luck. You must know that Hashem put you there for a reason. Just like a commando soldier that is secretly working within enemy territory; although your situation is extremely dangerous, at the same time it helps to know that if Hashem sent you there, it means He believes in you! [The overwhelming majority of strugglers have a huge self-image problem and it is [b]crucial [/b] for them to know what Hashem really thinks of them.]

And if you care enough to DO something about it, then you ought to know what your efforts mean to Hashem. You must know that your situation is only as desperate as you let it be. Because if you take action, you will succeed.

And of-course you also need to know that if c'v you find yourself in a situation that is impossible for you, then every bif of effort and every bit of not falling (even if one fell partially) is a tremendous accomplishment. Not only does it give a great nachas ruach to Hashem, but it also merits you more siyata diShmaya in the future and brings you a step closer to holiness.

2) Some people are under the impression that the Torah approach is that the battle must be fought with "white-knuckling". This is as far from the truth as you can get. We were always taught "bitachbula taaseh milchama" don't fight the y'h head on. That's why we must avoid temptation as much as we can.

Furthermore, when dealing with lust-addiction, it's blatantly obvious that you can't stop while being connected to taivoh - which is synonymous with being distant from Hashem. You need to make an about face and direct your life towards Hashem instead of away from Him.

Personally I'm sure that if one let's himself remain the same old baal-taivoh that he was and just tries to use brute-force to stop himself from sinning, it won't work! At least that was my experience.

But whatever situation you find yourself in, you always have to do what you can. That might mean turning your head away each time it turns itself towards pritzus even if you have to do it a thousand times in a row. It might mean stopping yourself even after you let loose. It might mean forcing yourself to think when your taivoh is not letting you.

It's important to know that every effort that you put in -whether it's white knuckling or otherwise- is a tremendous accomplishment and a tremendous investment.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 13 Dec 2015 20:09 #271167

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abe2710 wrote:
I have been hearing a lot about "surrendering out lust to god" or something like that. i would like to learn what this means can anyone offer me some direction where to go?
thank you in advance.
I have also seen some people say things like "god this lust is too strong for me please take it away" this is something i dont understand if Hashem gives us a problem like this surly He wants us to become better people through it not that we should just beg Him to take it away that would be a little pointless?

skeptical wrote:
#12: Asking Hashem to take it away -
A few days ago, I was having a really tough time controlling my thoughts. Out of desperation, I thought to myself, "There are guys on GYE who say that they just ask Hashem to 'take away the lust,' and they say that it works. Why not give it a shot?"
I didn't verbalize it, there were people around, I just thought it: Hashem, I'm having a difficult time with these thoughts. Please take them away from me.
Poof! They disappeared immediately.
Why does this work?
I think the answer is that when we're asking Hashem to help us through it, we are forcing ourselves to think about Him, even if it's on the most basic level. Intrinsically we know that these desires are all about making ourselves feel good, throwing Hashem and all other victims to the sidelines. If I believe in Hashem enough to ask Him to help me through a hard time, I'm putting Him at the center of it all and then there's no room for entertaining such thoughts and desires.
May we all have the strength to keep Hashem at the center of our lives and ask Him for help when we need it.

Im an absolute am ha'aretz in 12 steps, but I promise you this works. Where did I learn this idea of Asking Hashem to take it away? From the guru - cordnoy. Because I listened in to his calls

In my little mind - the reason why it works is the following
Am I supposed to jump into the ring with a boxer that is more powerful than me? If I have a different way to defeat him I will. Gd NEVER wants us to fight the YH if we have another way out.
That is how I understand how surrender works, and is based on the גמרא that says '...אלמלא הקב"ה עוזרו', which teaches us that we are unable to fight the YH.
תורה תבלין too is a great bullet against the YH only when done correctly, but even that is never a direct attack approach against the YH.
Yosef could have fought with אשת פוטיפרע. Why did he run out? Because that is what Gd wants
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Last Edit: 13 Dec 2015 22:40 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2015 16:27 #271245

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אל תדין את חברך עד שתגיע למקומו
Why doesn't it say אל תחייב את חברך?
Because the Mishna may be conveying a different message

Do Not Offer Advice: Not against and neither to benefit your friend. Until you have been in his shoes. Therefore for example when someone has issues with the 12 steps, I'll usually step aside and let someone else chime in, since I have zero experience in that

OFFER ADVICE: If you have managed to overcome your struggle to the point of passing the 100 day mark, that's a good time to advise based on your experience.

Before then try to focus on your own 18 Wheeler recovery and share that with the chevra.
Giving an opinion or a generalized השקפה without some sort of sobriety, Is like a Toys4U Employer advising how to tune up my truck. And it confuses newcomers

THE BEST ADVICE: The greatest / advice are the ones where we share our personal story - that is the most powerful advice I've found on the forum

Another note - I heard from one of the great moderators "us addicts don't like to be told what to do". This is an important dogma to keep in mind - I'm just sayin'

This is not directed at anyone specific, because after all אל תדין את חברך עד שתגיע למקומו

What I wrote isn't Toras Moshe. Btw the Torah and Chizuk forum isn't open to debate, which is one reason why I wasn't comfortable making this chizuk thread there...
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Last Edit: 14 Dec 2015 18:26 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Dec 2015 13:39 #271367

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an honest mouse wrote:
PARSHAS VAYIGASH

'kamoh yemei sh'nei chayecho' Pharoh asked Yaakov avinu - how many are the days of the years of your life. Rav shimshon raphoel hirsch says that pharoh understood the importance of each individual day. He was therefore asking yaakov, how have you utilised each day? how many days really counted, to which yaakov, in his anivus answered, little and nothing compared to my forefathers. ( i know this doesnt fit with the chazal about yaakov losing 33 years of his life coz he shouldnt have complained but rav sr'h knew a lot more than i do!).

we can apply that here. Each day counts, that means if i messed up yesterday - so what? today is a new day and conversely if yesterday was great, that doesnt mean today is gonna be good as well - in other words, each day has its own unique potential and thats the way we should live life as well as recovery - ONE DAY AT A TIME!!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Dec 2015 01:18 #271468

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BenTorah.BaalHabayis wrote:
markz wrote:
[b]

4) THE TRUCKING HIGHWAY - MILE TWO from 90 days till today
a) I say about myself "Other guys have their struggle - mine isn't such a tough one. G-d with his shliach Gye have helped me considerably. My life is looking up!!"
b) My view about others "Most people in the world probably do NOT lust, and I can believe that, because ever since I joined gye, I can often stand in the shoes of the people in the world - talking to a woman without fantasizing. My sobriety proved to me - that my view about others when I was on the wrong road was dead w r o n g"


According to this perspective what is then the source of our addiction? Why are some people addicted and others not? These people, who you assume can talk to a woman without fantasizing, I can't imagine the 12 steps just came naturally to them. So what's their secret?

Unless you know otherwise I would actually disagree with your premise. Chaza"l say that "Gezel v'Arayos nafsho shel odom mechamdton" (translated: lust for money and sex are innate to the human soul). That seems to imply that everyone has a "chimud" for arayos. I think this is called "lust", no?
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Dec 2015 01:23 #271469

Okay Markz, I'm looking at your "lust chizuk" thread. I really am interested in understanding this issue, because I still am under the impression that most people struggle with some degree of lust even it's not in the form of porn and related.
Feel free to email me at BenTorah.BaalHabayis@gmail.com

1 day may be too long for me, but I take it OWAAT = One wave at a time, cause the lust comes and goes like a wave which rises and crashes.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Dec 2015 02:03 #271472

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My friend BTBH

1) Off the Cuff I'll, say this
And Please keep this #1 on the top of the list. E.T.G.T = Enough Theory Get Trucking

I like to spend time either in Torah or in recovery
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

If we can do a little of both, why not?

2) Your 1st Paragraph
You wrote:
Why are some people addicted and others not?

See the Chazal you quoted. Now tell me - Why do some people steal and some not?
Your question is bigger than me. There's probably much information on this website to resolve it

2) Your 2nd Paragraph
You wrote:
Chaza"l say that "Gezel v'Arayos nafsho shel odom mechamdton". That seems to imply that everyone has a "chimud" for arayos. I think this is called "lust", no?

I do want to shlogg op your question, with a question
From the statement of Chazal it also "seems to imply that everyone has a "chimud" for" gezel. Did you lust to steal today? (Do not answer)

It's apparent from that Shtikel Chazal, that actually Chemda does NOT infer lust in the sense of fantasizing in every 'woman' situation

This Chazal may be explained by one of Dov's drashos expounding on the Chazal (Rubam Begezel Miutam Ba'arayos) found HERE, or it may make things more shverrr

Oy!! I may have added more confusion to your question, as your kushya is a shtarke one, now let the fun begin!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Dec 2015 03:18 #271479

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markz wrote:
I like to spend time either in Torah or in recovery


Thats a truck I'd like to hitch a ride with!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Dec 2015 17:05 #271630

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ODAAT - One of the most compelling sources in Jewish tradition

כתב באוה״ח "ויקרבו ימי ישראל למות" - וכי בימים שייך לומר לשון קריבה

אכן כוונת הכתוב הוא על פי מה שכתב איש אלהים קדוש האריז''ל ומצאת כי תדרשנו בס׳ קהלת יעקב וז''ל ואמנם ידעת מהתחלקות הנשמות לכמה ניצוצות ובכל גלגול וגלגול באים קצת מהם.

וכפי מספר הניצוצות של הצלם כך מספר ימי חייו. והימים שעושה בהם המצות נתקן ניצוץ אחד של הצלם ההוא כנגד היום ההוא, והיום שאין עושה בו מצוה נשאר פגום ניצוץ ההוא של הצלם ההוא כנגד היום ההוא, וכן על זה הדרך וכו' ע''כ.

ומה מאד האירה הקדמה זו עיני משכיל בכמה פרטי החקירות. האחד האירה עינינו בסוד השינה כי היא לעלות ניצוץ שכנגד היום ההוא והוא סוד אומרם כי השינה א' מס' מהמיתה (ברכות נז:) ואין יציאת הניצוץ בהחלט מוכרת מהנשמה אלא שנפרד מהכל ועודנו נסרך ונסבך בנפש

וזה מחסד אל שכל ניצוץ שזכה ביומו הנה הוא רחוק מההפסד הגם שירשיע אדם אחריו. וניצוץ אשר יעלה פגום הנה הוא יכול ליתקן - על ידי תשובה ישוב הניצוץ ויתקן גם זה מחסדי המתחסד הוא אלהינו יתעלה שמו...

לראשונים התחיל ה' להרבות להם המלאכה ונתן להם נשמות גדולות שבכל אחת יש בה חלקים רבים, והגביל לכל חלק מלאכתו יום א'. והוא סוד (שמות ט''ז ד') דבר יום ביומו. כי הענף יקרא יום ונתן להם ימים רבים כנגד חלקים אשר בנפשותם. לאדם נתן יותר משלש מאות אלף חלקים שהם מספר ימיו תתק''ל וכשיעור זה הן חסר הן יתר לדורות ההמה, וכשקלקלו ופרץ ה' בהם פרץ ואת בניהם הקים תחתם נח ובניו משם והלאה הקיל ה' מתת רוב הטורח ההוא כדי שתהיה הפקידה קרובה ויתחלחלו האנשים מעת הפקידה, וכשראה כי לא יכלו לעמוד היה מחסר והולך להקל, והן היום בעונותינו ימי שנותינו בהם ע' שנה שהם בקירוב חמשה ועשרים אלף יום ורבים מבני עמינו לא עמדו בעבודה קלה כזו...

גם בזה הרוחנו פירוש מה שאמר הכתוב (תהלים ק''ד) תוסף רוחם יגועון שאין כוונת הכתוב ידועה, גם לא אמר תוסף ברוחם, וכפי ההקדמה יאיר אור הכתוב כאור השמש. שיתכוון לומר כי כשיגיע קץ האדם פקודת נפשו יתוספו בו כל חלקי הנפש שנדו והלכו מידי לילה ולילה, והוא אומרו תוסף רוחם.
פירוש הרוח עצמה שלהם, וכבר אמרנו שהגם שהולכת אינה נעקרת בהחלט אלא הרי היא כיציאת הנשמה בלילה בעת שינה שמאיר אורה בגוף למטה והיא למעלה וזה לך האות בהעיר אדם את הישן ירגיש חלק המתעורר וירגיש גם חלק אשר עלה והבן: גם הרוחנו דעת כי אותם חלקי הנשמה נקראים ימים.

ובזה האיר משמעות הכתוב שבאנו עליו שאמר ויקרבו ימי ישראל למות פירוש חלקי הנשמה שעלו ממנו דבר יום ביומו הן עתה קרבו כמאמר הכתוב תוסף רוחם והוא אומרו למות, והרגיש יעקב אבינו בתוספת המרובה כי באו ימי השילום ויקרא לבנו ליוסף וגו'
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Last Edit: 17 Dec 2015 17:07 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Dec 2015 17:42 #271633

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Hi Mark,
Thanks, that was inspiring and interesting.
One question - how is it possible to have a day without a single mitzvah? What about אפילו ריקנין שבך מלאים מצוות כרמון? I'm sure you're familiar with the Gemara in Kiddushin that a kidushin on condition he is a tzadik is valid because even a hirhur Teshuva qualifies.
Actually we just came across this recently in the end of Sotah. Elisha cursed the people who were disrespectful and they were killed by bears. The Gemara says that he saw with Ruach Hakodesh that there was not even a לכלוכית of a Mitzvah in them or any of their descendants. This question bothered me then also.
Could it be there are different definitions of mitzvos here? Any and all new insight would be appreciated.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Dec 2015 02:41 #271821

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eslaasos wrote:
Hi Mark,
Thanks, that was inspiring and interesting.
One question - how is it possible to have a day without a single mitzvah? What about אפילו ריקנין שבך מלאים מצוות כרמון? I'm sure you're familiar with the Gemara in Kiddushin that a kidushin on condition he is a tzadik is valid because even a hirhur Teshuva qualifies.
Actually we just came across this recently in the end of Sotah. Elisha cursed the people who were disrespectful and they were killed by bears. The Gemara says that he saw with Ruach Hakodesh that there was not even a לכלוכית of a Mitzvah in them or any of their descendants. This question bothered me then also.
Could it be there are different definitions of mitzvos here? Any and all new insight would be appreciated.
im just a simple tailor, I hope you can find the answers in a different thread. Also I try to keep this thread focused on the thing that's always on top of my mind...
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Dec 2015 02:48 #271823

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horiyos 10b wrote:

אמר רבי יוחנן מאי דכתיב {הושע יד-י} כי ישרים דרכי ה' וצדיקים ילכו בם ופושעים יכשלו בם

משל לשני בני אדם שצלו פסחיהם אחד אכלו לשום מצוה ואחד אכלו לשום אכילה גסה

זה שאכלו לשום מצוה צדיקים ילכו בם, זה שאכלו לשום אכילה גסה ופושעים יכשלו בם


See what R' Yerucham zl expounds on this in P Yisro

The point is as follows
If my primary intent in tashmish is my selfishness then Im considered a posh(ea)

If my intent is to benefit someone else, I am considered a tzaddik

The result is enjoyable, eg tashmish, or eating pesach for the sake of mitzva. If you don't enjoy it you're sick

The question is - Why are you doing it?

If I'm more interested in myself and figured out a way to masturbate is with my wife, I don't know how much fulfillment of pru urvu is taking place, even when children are born

A great rabbi once said "I try fulfil the first Siman in shulchan aruch, so when i get to heaven, I don't get caught out the first minute"

For us?
Let's try fulfil the first command in the Torah, so we don't get caught out the first minute
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Dec 2015 02:37 #271916

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crakerjak wrote:
I am writing to say that I am feeling really good this morning. Yesterday was a good strong day B’H. I pummeled the Y’H right where it hurts and he slunk away a beaten man. He tried so many times to entice me throughout the day in so many different guises. B'H each time I knocked him for six. I devised several different ways of controlling my eyes and thoughts one of which I find particularly helpful.

When I reach the traffic lights and stop for the red signal I invariably used to look/gaze at the drivers to my left and right and make eye contact with them. I would do this after shul on the way into the city to my office. The good Hashba'os from Shacharis would be obliterated by my careless looking at women in their cars. It would practically set the tone for the day and was a perfect kick start for the Y'H. Now he had me on a roll and then it was plain sailing for him once I got into work (with the thoughts of what I had seen on the way in) and before my PC in my private office.

Now, whenever I reach the lights, I look down at my tzitzis, count the strings and fiddle with the knots. I think of the reason why I'm wearing these and what they signify. I recall the words for which these holy strings were instituted - 'veloi sosuru acharei levavchem ve'acharei eineichem asher atem zoinim achareihem'. I only move off once the fellow behind me sounds his horn. I don't care making him mad at me for not moving the second the lights turn green. 'I am engrossed in my private battle that I'm determined to win so you behind me can wait 2 more seconds before moving off’ The best nachas is the fist he waves at me when he overtakes me! That’s the Y’H's fist saying 'I’ll get you next time'!

I don't think so sonny, have a rotten day and I hope you’re unsuccessful in everything that you do!!

Where did I get the strength from? I never used to have the strength to be so powerful in my self-defence. Never before did I think that I would be able to beat him with such ease.

I'll tell you where I got the strength from; from the likes of ME, ELYA K, MEVAKESH, NICEGUY and all the other wonderful fellow warriors. I tell you, I'm not kidding - if it were not for this forum, I would never have had the ability to make a start on my missile defence programme!
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Last Edit: 21 Dec 2015 02:38 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Dec 2015 19:31 #271968

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This is geshmak, but DO NOT click the spoilers in this post if you're at work - unless you want to share it with your boss
me wrote:
....even if we say that Lo Sosuru is "only" an issur M'draban, this is in itself very severe, (I am not saying that I myself am not over on this)...but the chafetz chaim says in Shmiras HaLoshon, that a person must be prepared to give up "everything" that he owns just in order to to transgress a M'draban.

I found this on the web:

1) WHAT IS "HISTAKLUS?"
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

2) THE PROHIBITIONS OF "V'NISHMARTA" AND "V'LO SASURU"
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

So I'm writing separately to take away any hint that I'm suggesting "one who thinks a bad thought is a sinner." I would disagree violently with such a guilt trip, and assume that such a belief system could throw folks into unwarranted despair

My dear friend...here at GYE we don't hold by "guilt trips". They are just as destructive as any y"h, and they are also one of his strongest tactics.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Dec 2015 22:21 #271987

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gibbor120 wrote:
לא תתורו אחרי לבבכם - זו מינות - Do not stray after your heart - this refers to heresy.

Why is heresy referred to as following your heart? Shouldn't it say - don't follow your mind? Isn't it the mind that causes one to stray?!?

Nope. A person's heart, his desires, cause him to stray. The mind just finds the rationalization for it afterwards. It seems to start in the mind, but it actually starts in the heart


Ohr Sameach.edu wrote:
"Do not follow the desires of your heart (Bamidbar 15:39)".

Our sages comment that this verse warns us not to stray from our belief in G-d. Reb Elchonon asks: Why the heart? Why not the mind? Why don't our Sages tell us not to make the intellectual mistake of heresy. What does the heart have to do with not believing?

Reb Elchonon answers that belief in G-d is Mankind's "natural condition." In lieu of external influences, every person would cling to his faith, and heresy would not exist. However, there are countless distractions and provocative challenges to our moral integrity. These opportunities for forbidden pleasures act as a bribe to our intellect. Suddenly our judgement becomes blurred, and we find ourselves looking to justify the illicit behavior. Not far down that path is the porthole to disbelief. The Torah's command not to follow the desires of our heart is a warning to not take thebribe offered by temptation, because its end is in apostasy
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Dec 2015 22:34 #271989

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ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם
Apparently according to the Sifri and Rabeinu Bachya, the heart is the vehicle that drives the eye - more to come iyH
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Dec 2015 19:48 #272082

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Today's is the only fast that even if it happens to fall on Shabbos, we'd have to abstain from the beer and Cholent.
That would be a crisis, which the Rabbis saw in their ruach hakodesh would be untenable, so they preset the calendar so that it never fall on a Shabbos.

In what way is asara be'teves different to all others?

On this day we recall the first opening steps began the destruction of Gds home on the Temple Mount

The Jewish people were still going strong, but, since it's the beginning, it's the most significant

What's the lesson for us?

The beginning is the most significant

I found for myself that jumping on the Chart was the challenge, and plenty good came from there
I have other struggles which I need to begin small steps to beH

Today is a good day to plan one step for mankind
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Dec 2015 20:04 #272087

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bardichev wrote:
In the Parsha of TZITZIS, the Torah Teaches us: "VE'LO SASURU ACHAREI LIVAVCHEM VIACHAREI EINICHEM - And you shall not stray after your heart and after your eyes".

Said Reb Lazer, VE'LO SASURU - you should not stray from the path of Hashem, ACHAREI LEVAVCHEM, V'ACHAREI AINEICHEM. The Torah is telling us, that even AFTER you already sinned, even AFTER you already started to go after your heart or eyes, DON'T CONTINUE the downward slide that the Yetzer Hara is trying to get you into even more than the sin itself!

So if you sinned, shake it off and continue on!!
HaGaon Reb Leizer Geltdzeler ZT"L:


FALL SHMALL SLIPPEDD SHMIPPED YANKEL SHMANKEL bARDICHEV SHMARDICHEV

YOU GET THE DRIFT

bardichev

battleworn wrote:
Don't untie your kesher with Hashem after(acharei) you went after your eyes and after your heart. The greatest nachas ruach for Hashem is when we keep fighting even after we've been beaten.

CHAZAK VEEMATZ!!!


Machshovo Tova wrote:
Pidaini wrote:
... we are not our [subconsious] thoughts that pop up without our direct will...

Just wanted to add that while we are not held responsible for those annoying thoughts that pop up, we need to do our part in ignoring and not dwelling on them. As the sforim explain the possuk:
ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם
You shall not stray 'after' your hearts and 'after' your eyes.
i.e. the involuntary thought, or the involuntry look is not your fault, but be careful not to keep thinking or looking afterwards
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 23 Dec 2015 20:03 #272175

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ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכםFrom the Sifri and R' Bechaya, it's apparent that the heart is the vehicle that drives the eye - so keep that I mind when choosing your truck :-)

Here's more;

WHAT IS TRULY OUR PROBLEM - The Mind or the Eye?


"WARNING
If you are Mr 'never lusted', this is the wrong website for you (checkout the prevention site guardyoureyes.com/prevention), also what I'm about to say later is graphic and inappropriate for you.
All others, read on.

We need a BRAIN-WASH!!! Cold Shower - Ah... Refreshing!
'Cos when our brainwaves are positive, lustful images won't affect us - AT ALL, like demonstrated in the 4 examples below.
But when our brain is in 'addict' mode, even legitimite kosher things can be detrimental to us

Examples of 'Mr Pornfree'

1) A famous Rabbi had a personal custom whenever he was at a wedding, to lift the bride and carry her on his shoulders tra-la-la, to add joy to the חתן and כלה.
Guess what? It didn't lower his purity but was considered a מצוה!
(An Amora - see Ritva end of kiddushin)

2) To stop from sin, another famous Jew went directly to the location that a man and woman were having sinful relations and witnessed the full act.
Guess what? Not only did it not affect him, He was raised to a position of leadership in our nation (happens to be he also shot them. Pinchas).
Imagine a famous חסידיש׳ע Rebbe or the חפץ חיים זצוקלל"ה זכותם יגן עלינו visit an Adult-only website to see an X-Rated video, (destroy it) and coming out greater?

3) There's a religious guy that his פרנסה is by spending time with women in a closed room looking at them partially unclothed. He's a gynecologist, and I heard a well known Rav compliment this fellow's יראת שמים.
Everyone's wife has been to one of these guys

4) The first couple walked around naked. And they were on the highest levels of עבודת ה׳ until they listened to a stupid snake.

Examples of Mr 'Sexaholic'
To my struggling friend in a sleek Black James Bond Car (if I'm missing something about your personality please clue me in)

1) You write "I sit and read the forum posts about people lusting and it gives me thoughts" which is what gave the impetus to post 'No GYE after 9PM for ME'.

You know what? When I'm in the mood for casual reading, it would be downright dangerous for me to go to guardyoureyes.com - there's so much inappropriate material and stuff there I never knew existed (We could even promote GYE on Google as a great Porn Adult Website - You know I'm kidding, but my you got my point?)

Our brain needs to be in the mode of 1%+ recovery to come on this website, in order for it to assist us and not pull us down. As long as we are have not begun, and are searching for ways of treatment - no website is safe NOT EVEN TORAH WEBSITES - I can give you sources in Talmud that will enhance your lust till you bust.

2) You say "I have a problem with SSA!"
Shlomo24 had a great response "guys with ssa sexualize non sexual things"
A Porn free guy is diametrically opposite "even lustful things can be viewed as non sexual" (We're far far from there)

To summarize;
When our brainwaves are not in control, then, like you admitted "GYE after 9pm isn't safe, and taking a shower isn't safe, and SSA is a struggle".
We need help to change our brainwaves and the solution is going to be more than "no GYE after 9pm". If you'd have said no internet after 9pm, that would be amazing...

Conclusion:
Is it the eye, or is it the mind that needs gye tools?
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Last Edit: 18 Aug 2016 12:57 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Jan 2016 14:12 #273192

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The following I'm quoting because it resonates with me in my life - I'm not saying it applies to anyone else at all

R Yonasan Eibeshetz wrote:

בפיוט אדיר איום ונורא וכו' צאנך מיד גוזזים

הרצון שלפעמים אנו רואים אדם רשע שחוזר בתשובה יושב בצום ובכי מתפלש בעפר וכהנה דברים טובים וכאשר יעברו ימים אחדים הנה הוא חוזר לסורו במעשים מקולקלים ונשכח ימי השבע מפני ימי הרעב

וסיבה לזה הוא כמו צאן שמבקשים לגוזו ובצמרו יעשו כל חפץ יתנו לו לאכול מלח וכדומה המגדל צמר למאוד וכאשר יגדל הצמר יגוזו וכן יעשו תמיד

וכן הס"א יונקים מן ישראל העובר שפעת קדושה אשר בו והוא להם למחיה ולכך סביב רשעים יתהלכון אך כאשר הם יונקים וכבר נפשו יבשה ואין לחלוחית קדושה עוד בה כי ה' סר מעליו ומעשיו רעים וחטאים מה הם עושים נותנים ללבו לשוב אל ה' ולעשות טוב עד אשר ידושן נפשו מטוב ה' כפי עבודתו במצות ה' ויהיה מלא טוב בברכת ה' ואז כאשר רואים ישמן ישורון ונפשו מלא טוב אז ימנעו אותו מלילך במצות ה' כפעם בפעם ויונקים ממנו כל שפעת קדושה ובעו"ה נותן חלקו לזרים וכוחו לנכרים

וזהו הבקשה הנ"ל שה' יציל אותנו ולכך אמר צאנך מיד גוזזים שלא יקרה לנו כנ"ל ולכך צריך גדרים ושמירות רבות הן במדות והן במעשים שבל ישוב לכסלה ח"ו אדרבה להוסיף אומץ בכל יום בתורה ומדע וביראה

דרוש א׳
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Last Edit: 18 Aug 2016 12:59 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Jan 2016 18:10 #273213

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eslaasos wrote:
elaalavinu wrote:
what are you saying


I can't tell you what the great Mark was saying, but it sounds like he was saying something that I feel is right. I agree that Torah can feel like it's getting rid of some of the shmutz saved in your hard drive, and also Torah is magen umatzli, but we need to know that just limud hatorah alone is not what Hashem wants from us, and in many cases is not enough for us.

It could be that if we were to do nothing but be omeil batorah 24/7 for the rest of our lives, that would be good enough, but that's not possible, and also not why Hashem put us here.

More specifically what Mark was saying, if there is a root cause that drives us to escape with lust, we need to uproot it, otherwise it is likely that the images we erased may eventually be replaced with newer ones next time we find ourselves on the wrong side of the battlefield.

Mark, feel free to correct my interpretation of your post, but in any event this is my understanding.

2 small points
Yes I meant that - you always express it a lot better

The יערות דבש mentioned above adds a different dimension

Another point, is the words of the Gra zl in even shleima that Torah alone doesn't purify at all without the right mindset, it can even do the opposite

The heads of the reform movement knew more Torah than all of us put together...

To be continued another time
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Jan 2016 00:13 #273464

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chasid wrote:
What Torah commandments are involved in gazing at photos of undressed unmarried gentile women?

the.guard wrote:
Dear Chasid - welcome to our community!

A non-religious man once told the Brisker Rav that he doesn't believe in G-d because he has many questions. The Brisker Rav told him, "you don't have questions, you have answers". So my friend, if this question you ask is really an "answer" to why you aren't working on yourself, then I don't know if I can help you. However, I believe that the fact you are asking us this question is because you genuinely want to stop these behaviors. You just feel you need to understand more how dangerous and sinful it is, so that you can convince the Yetzer Hara to leave you alone.

There's no question that any Posek you will ask will tell you that it is prohibited. I would like you to realize that your question is really the "addiction" speaking, and that this is one of the tricks of the addiction. Rabbi Twerski, founder of an Alcoholic Rehabilitation Center, compared such claims to me once on the phone, to an addict who says "I was just trying beer, I wasn't drinking whiskey"...

As far as the prohibitions are concerned, anyone who is frum and has learned any Torah, should be aware of the severity of these sins. The Torah says "Thou shall not go astray after your hearts and after your eyes which lead you astray,". This applies to any image that arouses one's sexual inclination, and erotic images of any type are definitely forbidden. The Rabbis state that anyone who purposefully arouses his sexual organ is to be banished (Niddah 13A). The Gemara there even goes as far to say "Better one's stomach should burst than he should touch the area of his bris (and possibly bring himself to an erection)". And another Gemara says "better to walk behind a lion than to walk behind a woman". And another Gemara: "whoever brings himself to an erection is destroying the world". This is not Mussar or Chassidus, this is regular Gemara. Chaza"l were fire about this! The Medrash says that anyone who is not careful with gazing at women will come to sin with them in the end.

Viewing porn is also included in the prohibition of "Lo Sikrevu Legalos Erva, Ani Hashem Elokeichem" - "Do not come close to revealing nakedness, for I am Hashem your G-d". There is no other Mitzva in the Torah where such terminology is used. Even with idol worship, the Torah doesn't say not to come close! Only with sexual matters, the Torah exhorts us to stay far away from it. It is also interesting to note that the Torah uses the words "do not come close to reveal nakedness" and not "to sexual relations". This implies that "revealing nakedness" (i.e. even looking) is, on some level, as if one had already done the act.

This little test can be your meter - if an image triggers a sexual twitch, a stronger heartbeat, sweaty palms, or even a silent, "Wow!" then you are polluting your soul, damaging your "Da'at," the ability to know G-d, and cutting yourself off from the Divine Presence, the Shechinah. The eyes are the windows to the soul and they are the vessels to receive the light of the Shechina. One who has damaged these vessels will not be able to bask in the glory of the Shechinah in this world, nor in the next.


chasid wrote:
I have plenty of reason of why not to do such a deed. Reason much greater than the reason you have mentioned. I do not not know why you haven't mentioned these reasons because they are clearly mentioned by the Rambam in his Pirush on Sanhedrin 7:4 and in Hilchot Teshuva.

My knowledge is limited and that is why I am asking. I want to know what Torah prohibition are involved in the case of gentile undressed women. The only on that I can think of is "you shall be holy." Which is a general prohibition. The prohibition of not straying after your eyes would apply to relatives, a niddah, a married woman. For this reason I asked about a unmarried gentile woman.


*************************************
bardichev wrote:
wowee we have a lamdan on board

the ramban tells us the basics of yiddishkite is NOT to be a NAVAL BERESHUS HATORA.
I am also a chasid and I learned some torah too but I don’t have the correct TEITSH of the word NAVAL I think it can be loosely translated as a PIG in the permission of the Torah.

You can go down this road and get all cute with your diorayssos and dirabanans ultimately you will be a NAVAL.It may work in lomdus bet your heart and mind will be GOYISH

Dear yid
You can choose any path you want in life it is yours to make or break .In the end you have one court to answer to. That is you being honest with yourself.
When you are listening to tekias shofar wrapped in your tallis holding your leather bound machzor swaying back and forth and the image of the gentile unmarried n****d women pops into your mind will you be so brazen and say oh cute no di'oraysa there.or when the whole shul is dancing with fervor in simchas tiorah and you cant keep your eyes off the ezras noshim imagining who knows what. what will you tell YOURSELF then???

CHERPAS NAVAL AL TISIMEINI!!!

there is a long Rambam regarding this so is there a rabbeinu yonah I don’t have either in front of me know so I cant quote them.

See the or hachayim in the parshas arayis in achrei mos

Listen up end of the day you will have to look yourself in the mirror and honestly tell yourself I'm good I was only oiver drabbananan.

Besides there is a gemara in avodah zra 27 poretz geder yishchenu nachash

usually humble and usually happy
bardichev


chasid wrote:
Bardichev: Please do not reply to any of my posts till you learn how to read.


bardichev wrote:
boy can I read...

I won't respond to your post and I hope no one reads them .This a freindly place with people who want to be helped can be helped .

humbled
b


the guard wrote:
Barditchev Tzadik, I know you mean Leshaim Shamayim, but I think you misread Chasid. He also means Lishaim Shamayim. He is only trying to help us mention the most important reasons why we should encourage people to stop these behaviors.

Let's make all the effort we can on these forums to only be mekarev with Ahavah every Jew and be dan likaf zechus unless we are 100% sure that someone's intentions are not proper. And even if so, preferably contact me about it and I'll try to deal with it.

Chasid, please forgive us. We know you mean good.

I love all Yidden!!


bardichev wrote:
I apologize
sorry
I love all yidden too


Dov also had what to write HERE and he loves all yidden too
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Last Edit: 06 Jan 2016 00:14 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Jan 2016 00:42 #273465

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ontheedgeman wrote:
I have heard that in the Zohar, it is said that the sin of wasted seed is the worst sin for which no recovery is possible.  And further that relations with non-Jews attaches to us even in Olam Haba. 

Not to say there aren't other factors, but these two things are like dark clouds hovering over my head.  What are the defenses against these charges?


Dov wrote:
OK, so lets say that you did understand the Zohar correctly. Now what? Does the Zohar mean that Hashem now hates you? Doe sit mean that you have no more meaning to Him? That you have no beauty and goodness in your life?

Sha"s says clearly that any person who embarrassess another in public has no part in Olam Haba. So if you once did that, and many of us certainly have, then what? What do you do about it? Do you kill youself emotionally by giving up everafter on living a deep, happy, and fulfilling beautiful life as Hashem's favorite 'ontheedgeman'-guy? Bishvili nivra Olam does not apply to you any more? Rubbish. Just plain rubbish.

It's a stain, period.

Neeeext! (or as Reb bards would put it: KEEP ON TRUCKING!)

I am serious. This is avodas Hashem we are talking about. It is your real life, not a religiously-contrived game of who is a "rasha" or "tzaddik", or who is going to gehinom or not going. And it needs to last about 80 or 90 years. Though we all suffer from it, the truth is that there is no real place for self-pity in this life. It is destructive and ruins us. It needs to be rejected as an option once we wake up. I frequently have to reject it, so I may know just how you feel...

If you are headed to gehinnom or can't do Teshuvah, then what? The way I see it, now you can serve Hashem even though you will not get a big fat honor-prize from Him for it...for after all, you have this stain on you. Nu. So you can now do what He wants for Him, instead of just for you and your ticker-tape parade in Gan Eden. We all envision something like that, you know...a ticker-tape parade. "Make way and open the gates for the tzaddik Shomer Emunim!"

Read the RMB"N's iggeres. 2/3 of the way down. So? Now you finally have a way to really see others as having an advantage over you, instead of having to manufacture one. This is nothing new. If you read the letters of many great tzaddikim and many simple Yidden from the past you will see this theme: "b'avonosai harabim asher otzmu v'robu misa'aros roshi...etc." Well, now you can say that and really mean it.

And exactly what is so bad about that? I think it is a fine place to start out. See where He takes you from there. He is very good at rearranging things and working them out so life works better, you know. He does that for me and lots of other people I know and does a fine job.

I know most of the good people around here are uncomfortable with anything but a touchy-feely, 'feel-good' kind of yiddishkeit. But I don't need to start with that. I have a G-d who loves me even if I would be a rosha c"v, and certainly even though I'd be right on my knees in that bathroom with a magazine open on the floor and 'getting the old shameful job done'. Hey, He was right there, too, with me, no? And He brought me here nonetheless! Isn't that love?

And that's enough for me to be in allegiance to Him for the rest of my life. Ashirah laShem bchayay, azamroh leiloay b'odi, ye'erav olov sichi - anochi esmach baShem!!

PS. I am not suggesting that you must do this. I am only offerring a way out for you - or rather, a way through (durch, in yiddish, I believe). Even your worst fears about this stuff can be a vehicle for you to live a better life.




I am not trying to minimize the cheit of sex with yourself (masturbation). The Zohar and Chaza"l say the truth, of course. Still, it is no reason for a Jew to give up on a great life and lose faith in Hashem's abounding love for him/her. And how can it always be halachically considered yehoreg v'al ya'avor - the case in the gemorah was surely a hora'as sho'oh for that person based on the circumstances.

But all this is not necessarily true for addicts. I know a beautiful chassidishe yid with about 20 years sobriety from lust whose acting out included prostitutes, etc., who says to his G-d every day, "Teiereh Tatteh, if I am going to act out today, then please, please take me first."

Many of us - whether sex and lust addicts or alcoholics, or whatever-aholics, have very low bottoms. Life is definitely not worth living as an acting out addict. So we truly prefer death to such a life. That is how precious our sobriety is to many of us.

This is not a madreiga, but a choice based on enlightened self-interest, plain and simple. We are so sick, that sobriety is more precious than anything else, period.

I guess that is the pnimius of "yehoreig v'al ya'avor", no? Is a Jew to die rather than do the big three because Hashem says so - or because he needs to die rather than do such things? I think it is the latter....though to those I feel are 'olam-haba-seeking goodie-goodies', the former is obviously their aspiration.

Nu. To each his own.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Jan 2016 17:38 #273632

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ZemirosShabbos wrote:
Parshas Vaera

וידבר אלקים אל משה ויאמר אליו אני ה' וגו

Why does it say 'vayomer alov', it seems repetitious, and why does it say 'vayedaber' and then 'vayomer', why the change of terminology?

(i am quoting the lashon here verbatim)
עיקר השראת השכינה הוא על בחינת נשברי לב, כמאמר הכתוב את מי אשכון ואת דכא ושפל רוח וגו', היינו על בחינת בעלי תשובה, כי כשאדם חוטא ועל ידי זה נשבר לבו בקרבו ושב בתשובה שלמה, הוא ממשיך על עצמו אור התשובה, ובחינה זו גדול מאוד בעיני השם
. עכ"ל
The primary dwelling of the Shechinah is on people who have broken hearts, the level of baalei teshuvah. After a person does an aveirah and his heart is broken and he does true teshuvah he draws upon himself the light of teshuvah. This is very precious and dear in the eyes of Hashem.

The pasuk starts off וידבר - לשון קשה, when Hashem rebuked Moshe for saying למה הרעותה , Moshe's heart broke and he immediately did teshuvah. Hashem then spoke to him with a tender tone, ויאמר - לשון רכה


Bas Ayin

"Moshe's heart broke and he immediately did teshuvah"

Dov has also mentioned the benefit of upsetness due to a fall, that can be impetus to take a baby step to recovery

When someone c"v has a fall, Gd implanted a natural feeling to be down and upset because of it. It's wrong to negate that feeling
And when someone shared his fall with us, it's not the best advice to say
"Don't feel bad..."
He should yes feel bad!

Same like nichum aveilim. A fall is a loss - 100%. But it's hurtful to the avel for a guy to come in and belittle his loss, and this guy thinks he a big tzaddik cos he figured how to comfort...
Nichum aveilim is to help him come to terms with his loss

If someone has a fall, true consolation = 99% empathy + 1% chizuk, a little more or a little less

May we all share אור התשובה together
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 09 Jan 2016 23:32 #273746

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image_2016-01-09.jpeg
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 10 Jan 2016 02:00 #273780

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selfishness feeds lust which feeds selfishness... ... - an endless circle

Which is why the common שורש of גאוה and תאוה is אוה
They are intertwined one another
Rabbi A Schorr שליטא


This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

You can start from minute 11, and if you like gematria there are some pearls to be found

Thanks to Torahanytime
Forgive me for lowering the sound quality to be able to upload
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Last Edit: 11 Jan 2016 14:11 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 12 Jan 2016 18:02 #274077

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Until the day 'Cordnoy quotes' is threaded I feel it's important to quote this great one here, since not everyone has access to the Mikva
cordnoy wrote:
The reason one needs a Rav is because there are always variables that need to be addressed specifically. There very possibly will be a different set of rules for an addict. I have written on GYE many times that i don't believe halachah should be bantered around at all, on any thread.

Regardin' the hashkafah of intimacy, one should get sober first before addressin'.

b'hatzlachah
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 13:02 #274415

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markz wrote:
Until the day 'Cordnoy quotes' is threaded I feel it's important to quote this great one here, since not everyone has access to the Mikva
cordnoy wrote:
The reason one needs a Rav is because there are always variables that need to be addressed specifically. There very possibly will be a different set of rules for an addict. I have written on GYE many times that i don't believe halachah should be bantered around at all, on any thread.

Regardin' the hashkafah of intimacy, one should get sober first before addressin'.

b'hatzlachah


Save it till after מאה ועשרים.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 14:49 #274426

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Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 16:28 #274452

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Posting on behalf of Stillgoing -

Maybe mezonos, which means sustenance, can be missused by overeating. Personally i find that when indulging in lust, i also do the same with food.When i was younger my body shrugged it off. Now im starting to feel the weight and it's calling attention to me, that eating (mezonos) and lusting (z'nos) often follow each other - at least for me.
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Last Edit: 15 Jan 2016 16:37 by eslaasos.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 16:43 #274453

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eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 17:06 #274454

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Awesome, tysm Mark. Your bekios is inspiring.

A few comments -

1. According to this, the well known vort of masbeio ra'ev is limited to bios asuros. I would like to suggest this includes encounters with your wife that are technically mutar but are motivated by self-indulgence.

2. The taste of biah was given to baalei aveiroh. This at first seemed to me to be contradicting the point above. Then I thought along the lines of that taam is not ikar. Again just suggesting - maybe the Kli Yakar is referring to the illusion that lust indulgence will make us happy.

Any thoughts?
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 17:59 #274456

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eslaasos wrote:
Awesome, tysm Mark. Your bekios is inspiring.

A few comments -

1. According to this, the well known vort of masbeio ra'ev is limited to bios asuros. I would like to suggest this includes encounters with your wife that are technically mutar but are motivated by self-indulgence.

2. The taste of biah was given to baalei aveiroh. This at first seemed to me to be contradicting the point above. Then I thought along the lines of that taam is not ikar. Again just suggesting - maybe the Kli Yakar is referring to the illusion that lust indulgence will make us happy.

Any thoughts?


I've discussed that Kli Yakar worth Dr. Sorotzkin; he had mentioned it to me. What's interesting is that the Gemara says (can't remember where offhand) that Dovid Hamelech made a mistake bc he had relations during the day bc his Yetzer Hara was getting stronger, and that he forgot that משביעו רעב מרעיבו שבע.

So I think there are approaches other than the Kli Yakars that would say that it's even true by permitted relations.

I also don't think that the two things are contradictions. Specifically bc the real intense pleasure is by עוברי עבירה, it is like a drug and they need more and more. However, ביאות של היתר או מצוה are usually affirming and emotionally connecting. Those aren't usually addictive by definition, bc it is in the context of a healthy and emotionally intimate relationship.

As they say, my two cents for what it's worth.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:01 #274457

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eslaasos wrote:
Posting on behalf of Stillgoing -

Maybe mezonos, which means sustenance, can be missused by overeating. Personally i find that when indulging in lust, i also do the same with food.When i was younger my body shrugged it off. Now im starting to feel the weight and it's calling attention to me, that eating (mezonos) and lusting (z'nos) often follow each other - at least for me.


Anything can be misused.
The shoresh of the word is probably it's definition when it is used properly.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:03 #274458

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markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:20 #274460

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cordnoy wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Posting on behalf of Stillgoing -

Maybe mezonos, which means sustenance, can be missused by overeating. Personally i find that when indulging in lust, i also do the same with food.When i was younger my body shrugged it off. Now im starting to feel the weight and it's calling attention to me, that eating (mezonos) and lusting (z'nos) often follow each other - at least for me.


Anything can be misused.
The shoresh of the word is probably it's definition when it is used properly.


At your convenience, can you please clarify.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:22 #274461

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cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you answered it above. Like kedusha and kedeisha.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:26 #274462

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cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:30 #274463

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eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Posting on behalf of Stillgoing -

Maybe mezonos, which means sustenance, can be missused by overeating. Personally i find that when indulging in lust, i also do the same with food.When i was younger my body shrugged it off. Now im starting to feel the weight and it's calling attention to me, that eating (mezonos) and lusting (z'nos) often follow each other - at least for me.


Anything can be misused.
The shoresh of the word is probably it's definition when it is used properly.


At your convenience, can you please clarify.


It seems that you were implying the correlation of the words is that one can misuse eating or sustenance and therefore it is the same shoresh as zenus.

I am suggesting that the word zan, meaning sustenance has its meaning in its pure form, and that is not when one is overeating, but rather, when he is eating properly.

Accordingly, we would not have a connection between the two words.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:37 #274464

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eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.


I try to focus on one topic at a time.
The keli yakar does not address the similarity of the two words. If anything, he contrasts them, for he equates the word lechem to be referring to eating and cohabitation, but only when performed with one's wife. Accordingly, when one cohabits with a woman who is forbidden to him, she is not lechem, and that is why there is no "zan" (unless you say that they are opposites).
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:44 #274465

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eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.


Eslaasos, I've actually heard the answer that you gave many times in a similar context. Both of these Yetzer Haras- taavas achila and taavas tashmish- are necessary for people to survive. Food on an individual level, and reproduction on a global level. The same way that when they were מבטל the Yetzer Hara they couldn't find chickens or eggs, I forget, if people wouldn't have a YH for food only smart people would remember to eat and others would die.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 18:55 #274467

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cordnoy wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.


I try to focus on one topic at a time.
The keli yakar does not address the similarity of the two words. If anything, he contrasts them, for he equates the word lechem to be referring to eating and cohabitation, but only when performed with one's wife. Accordingly, when one cohabits with a woman who is forbidden to him, she is not lechem, and that is why there is no "zan" (unless you say that they are opposites).


My understanding of the Kli Yakar is that he is indeed comparing the 2 terms in that tashmish in its proper form is masbia the eiver, the same way that lechem is masbia. However, if a person misuses tashmish and turns it into znus, then it is as you wrote and there is no satisfaction (it is not masbia) as he has corrupted the lechem.

I used to translate the word zan/mezonos as sustain/sustenance. According to this Kli Yakar, it appears satisfaction is more accurate.

Agav, I must thank Markz for this designated Torah of lust thread because otherwise you wouldn't philosophize with us.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 19:48 #274475

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Thanks Markz! Great Kli Yakar.

Not that he needs any haskama from modern science, but I indeed saw some physiological explenation of that same phenomenon. That the body actually reacts differently to intimacy with a wife vs masturbation. Hormones that are released or not released in each instance...

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 20:13 #274478

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eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?


וַיַּעֲזֹ֣ב כָּל-אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ֮ בְּיַד-יוֹסֵף֒ וְלֹא-יָדַ֤ע אִתּוֹ֙ מְא֔וּמָה כִּ֥י אִם-הַלֶּ֖חֶם אֲשֶׁר-ה֣וּא אוֹכֵ֑ל

בעה'ט: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל. בגימטריא היא אשתו:

כלי יקר: כי אם הלחם אשר הוא אוכל.פירש רש"י היא אשתו, כמ"ש ולא חשך ממני מאומה כי אם אותך באשר את אשתו, וקרא לאשתו בכנוי לחם כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר, לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כמרז"ל (סוכה נב:) אבר קטן משביעו רעב וארז"ל (סנהדרין עה.)שניטל טעם ביאה וניתן לעוברי עבירה, כי אין יצרו תוקפו כי אם בדבר איסור, ולכך אמרו רז"ל (סוטה ד:) כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר (משלי ו.כו) כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם, וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקרא לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו על כן יחסר לחמו. ויש אומרים, לחם זה הוא לחם ממש, כי תועבה למצרים לאכול לחם את העברים, ולפי זה נוכל לפרש מה שנאמר ולא ידע אתו מאומה שקאי על יוסף כי אע"פ שעזב כל אשר לו ביד יוסף והיה יוסף יכול לאכול מכל מיני מעדנים ומי ימחה בו שהרי הכל היה בידו, מ"מ לא ידע יוסף אתו מאומה שלא נהנה מכל פת בג אדוניו כ"א הלחם אשר הוא אוכל, פת במלח לבד אכל כדרכה של תורה, ואע"פ כן ויהי יוסף יפה תואר ויפה מראה כבראשונה וזיו אפוהי לא אשתני, כמו שקרה לדניאל וחביריו, ובזה מתורץ מה שמקשים וכי עכשיו נעשה יפה תואר ומראה והלא כבר היה לעולמים כן, אלא שלרבותא נקט כאן שלא נשתנה מחמת שלא רצה להתגאל בפת בג אדוניו


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.


I try to focus on one topic at a time.
The keli yakar does not address the similarity of the two words. If anything, he contrasts them, for he equates the word lechem to be referring to eating and cohabitation, but only when performed with one's wife. Accordingly, when one cohabits with a woman who is forbidden to him, she is not lechem, and that is why there is no "zan" (unless you say that they are opposites).


My understanding of the Kli Yakar is that he is indeed comparing the 2 terms in that tashmish in its proper form is masbia the eiver, the same way that lechem is masbia. However, if a person misuses tashmish and turns it into znus, then it is as you wrote and there is no satisfaction (it is not masbia) as he has corrupted the lechem.

I used to translate the word zan/mezonos as sustain/sustenance. According to this Kli Yakar, it appears satisfaction is more accurate.

Agav, I must thank Markz for this designated Torah of lust thread because otherwise you wouldn't philosophize with us.


He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


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Last Edit: 15 Jan 2016 20:13 by cordnoy.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Jan 2016 20:15 #274479

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gibbor120 wrote:
Thanks Markz! Great Kli Yakar.

Not that he needs any haskama from modern science, but I indeed saw some physiological explenation of that same phenomenon. That the body actually reacts differently to intimacy with a wife vs masturbation. Hormones that are released or not released in each instance...


Can you elaborate please, or provide a source?
I am not questioning; I am curious.
Is there a difference between intimacy with one's wife and cohabitation with a forbidden woman?
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 00:13 #274501

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He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.


see tosfos gitin 6b zvuv about mazon and znus, its mistama not coincidential

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 00:54 #274505

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kilochalu wrote:
He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.


see tosfos gitin 6b zvuv about mazon and znus, its mistama not coincidential


Now, that's a mareh makom!
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 03:10 #274520

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kilochalu wrote:
He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.


see tosfos gitin 6b zvuv about mazon and znus, its mistama not coincidential


Thank you.
Granted the Kli Yakar doesn't mention the word zan, but he does compare the two topics and I was understanding the Kli Yakar as providing the meaning behind the connection.
With the new maare makom it certainly seems to add up.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 16:58 #274564

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the.guard wrote:
Briut wrote on 29 Jul 2010 14:49:

1) I like lust. I'll be candid but politically incorrect here -- I find lust nourishing. (There. I said it. Whew.)


lo sassuru... asher atem zonim achareihem. The word "Zonim" comes from the word "zan" = "nourish"... Yes, the eye candy feels nourishing, but we are meant to one day 'lizon miziv hashchinah"... and eyes that were zan from lust won't be able to be zan from the ziv hashchinah, which is a much higher and sublime delight. So it's worth holding back!


Yosef Hatzadik wrote:
In the beginning of Sefer Yehoshua, Rashi, The Radak, & The Metzudas, among others, state that Rachav HaZonah was not a prostitute, chas V'sholom. After all, she ended up marrying Yehoshua himself!!!

Rather they translate that she sold food. Mocheres minei mezonos is Rashi's words.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 17:44 #274567

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markz wrote:
the.guard wrote:
Briut wrote on 29 Jul 2010 14:49:

1) I like lust. I'll be candid but politically incorrect here -- I find lust nourishing. (There. I said it. Whew.)


lo sassuru... asher atem zonim achareihem. The word "Zonim" comes from the word "zan" = "nourish"... Yes, the eye candy feels nourishing, but we are meant to one day 'lizon miziv hashchinah"... and eyes that were zan from lust won't be able to be zan from the ziv hashchinah, which is a much higher and sublime delight. So it's worth holding back!


Yosef Hatzadik wrote:
In the beginning of Sefer Yehoshua, Rashi, The Radak, & The Metzudas, among others, state that Rachav HaZonah was not a prostitute, chas V'sholom. After all, she ended up marrying Yehoshua himself!!!

Rather they translate that she sold food. Mocheres minei mezonos is Rashi's words.


Good stuff.
I was looking there last night but couldn't find anyone explaining the correlation. Nobody was even bothered by it.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 17 Jan 2016 19:14 #274595

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TOPIC: A wife is like bread?

neshamaincharge wrote:

In בראשית לט:ו the Torah refers to אשת פוטיפר as לחם. Rashi says it is a לשון נקיה for wife.

The כלי יקר says something that I always had trouble with:
וקרא לאשתו בכינוי לחם, כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר- לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כארז"ל אבר קטן משביעו רעב
Loosely translated: a wife is referred to through the euphemism of "bread", because just as bread satisfies more than any other food, so too, permitted intimacy (with one's wife) satisfies a person. In contrast, with prohibited forms of sexual relations, the rule is-as our sages say- the more you feed it the more it goes hungry.

I had major trouble with this כלי יקר on many fronts:
1) is bread really the most satisfying food? What percentage of the trillion dollar food industry is bread?
2) is sex with one's wife really more satisfying than with anyone else? What percentage of the trillion dollar sex industry is intimacy between a man and his own wife?

My bigger question is:
3) how can the כלי יקר say that the rule of our sages that "the more you feed it, the more you need it" only applies to prohibited relationships? One of the places that the gemara mentions this rule is with reference to דוד המלך, and it's clearly talking over there about intimacy with one wife! (I don't have a gemara in front of me, but I think it's Sanhedrin 107a- someone please correct me if I'm off)
The gemara there tells about how דוד knew that he was going to be tested in this area, so he slept with his wife in an attempt to minimize the נסיון. The gemara says that דוד forgot the rule that "the more you feed it, the more you need it", so he actually made it harder on himself. According to the kli yakar, it should have worked like "bread"- it was permitted intimacy!

I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. I have an idea based on what I've learned on this forum, but I haven't seen a מקור for it. Feel free to comment!

I'm assuming that many of you had a similar approach to my question. That is that of course bread (and real kosher intimacy with one's wife) is more satisfying. It doesn't provide the fake "sugar high" that a donut has. It doesn't have the glitz and glamour of "sweet porn" (as Dov would say it).

Anyone who is on this site knows all too well how unsatisfying the junk fast- food fantasy is, as sweet and alluring as it seems at the time. We are often left with that same sick, sick feeling as when we polished off a box of donuts.

Regarding דוד המלך, and I say this with trepidation because I haven't seen a מקור, but perhaps when the kli yakar says that permitted intimacy is satisfying, he doesn't mean all married sex. Maybe it's only if you're totally focused on giving to the other person, then it has that quality.

As pure as Dovid's motivations were, the gemara seems to say that he was trying to use this as a way of "filling himself" to try to minimize the impending nisayon. At Dovid's level, perhaps there was an element of taking rather than giving in intimacy, even though it was with his wife. Perhaps the כלי יקר would say -that's why it didn't work, and it fact it backfired.

Whether this is the accurate פשט or not, the lessons for me are profound. Many of us that are married are very much struggling with making sure not to lust -even after our own wives.

We read some of the bochurim writing about their having an expectation of having a "muttar outlet" once they get married. I'm not here to judge whether that's right or wrong. It just make me want to cry for all of the pain that that future couple might have to go through before he chaps what real intimacy is. It is only once I joined GYE that I began (still got long ways to go) to understand what it really means to be a giver in a relationship, which gave me a little taste of גן עדן


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Shmeichel wrote:

in my humble opinion i think that the kley yokor refers to non permitted relationship with your own wife, like when she is not o.k., or in forms how she does not appreciate it, these type of s*x does not satisfy your hunger it only makes it more hungry, in contrast to normal permitted relationship and in a way where she enjoys it, gives both sides great satisfaction
does that make any sense?


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neshamaincharge wrote:
There is one more piece to this כלי יקר that is terrifying and unfortunately very relevant to some of us:

ולכך אמרו רז"ל כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם. וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקראה לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו, על כן יחסר לחמו.

> I am not a נביא, and I do not appreciate when people think they know exactly why הקב"ה runs the world the way he does. However, it would behoove me to take lessons for myself in noticing patterns in my life. We know that one of the reasons why hashem does things מדה כנגד מדה is to aid us in recognizing those patterns and hopefully learning from it.

I know that some of us have struggled with "putting bread on the table". Although nothing is so simple, I hear from this kli yakar that part of my Hishtadlus in earning more "bread", is to view and treat my wife as the only and most satisfying thing for me.

The paradox is, that the only way I will ever be really satisfied, is by not focusing at all on my own satisfaction, rather being totally focused on giving to her. If my giving is conditional - expecting something in return, I will go hungry.


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kedusha wrote:
I also don't have the Gemarah in front of me, but my recollection is that, in the incident referred to, the Gemarah says that Dovid HaMelech had relations with one of his wives during the day. Maybe that was the Tzad issur she'bo (although, technically speaking, Dovid surely did no issur, considering that there are ways to have relations by day in a permissible manner).


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belmont4175 wrote:
I had prepared a long reply for this one but it got lost somehow (my fault always).

In my small view, what the Kli Yakar means by כך בעילות של היתר is real relationship and love, that husband and wife should have for each other that goes far beyond bodily connection, although it does have a physical touch, but the bonding reaches higher levels. (which some of us don't even know what it is at all).

To that some of us here can attest that: by giving in to our lust desires and fantasies elsewhere or even with our spouses if done in our selfish way just to fulfill our desires the way we viewed it in the dark world, "we will NEVER be satisfied enough".

I am sure there is a Mekor for this, although we don't need one (it's a fact) I will let the experts deal with that.


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lavi wrote:
since the experts haven't responded [ they normally don't when called experts] i found a mekor that chasing after our desire will never satisfy us.

ספר מבחר הפנינים מד - שער הפרישות מעולם הזה

(כה) ואמר דמיתי האדם בבקשת העולם כצמא שהגיע אל מים מלוחים כל אשר שתה מהם הוסיף צמאו
From rabbi shlomo ben yehudah ibn gabirol circa 1020: [found on bar-ilan].



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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 18 Jan 2016 17:06 #274734

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cordnoy wrote:
gibbor120 wrote:
Thanks Markz! Great Kli Yakar.

Not that he needs any haskama from modern science, but I indeed saw some physiological explenation of that same phenomenon. That the body actually reacts differently to intimacy with a wife vs masturbation. Hormones that are released or not released in each instance...


Can you elaborate please, or provide a source?
I am not questioning; I am curious.
Is there a difference between intimacy with one's wife and cohabitation with a forbidden woman?


I'll try and find it again B"N. I probably got it from a link in one of the chizzuk emails or something. It was a goyish anti-porn site i think.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 19 Jan 2016 14:07 #274857

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bardichev wrote:
Beshalach-Shabbos SHIRA tuf shin ayin alef


KEEP ON TRUCKING

By:bardichev

This dvar Torah is dedicated to my good chver Zemiros Shabbos

May he see bracha vihatazlacha in all his endeavors

The place:Somewhere near Egypt

The time:chol hamoed
Pesach

The yidden are trapped in the deset

The Egyptian Cavalry all of it and all their legions. The entire Egyptian army are bearing down on the Jews
The jews are between a rock and a hard place

The only place they can go is forward

Slight issue homo-sapians are not amphibians.

What is there to do

No retreat
No where to turn

So the Jews do what Jews always do they pray!

Gevaldiggggg??

Nisht!

Hashem says why are you screaming

??

Speak to the people and tell them to get moving

YAYISOO-ee (vayisa-uu)

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!

Fregt bards

What was wrong with prayer?

There is  a huge lesson here

Huge

When facing a personal challenge

We can't say

I tried

I cried

I prayed

No no no

Do something posotive

Drive forward

Even if it means jumping into the sea

Vayisa-uu!!

Too often I see here on the forum. People are haunted by their own demons

Leave them behind you!! Ayyy they are chasing you?! Just keep on trucking!

Of course tefilla!but like Hashem says tefilla plus action

Like the Rupshotzers kugel

The rupshizer roov reb naftali horovitz talmid of the (chozeh)Lubliner

His rebbetzin was a bit stingy but a big tzaddekes

So she made a small kugel one potato. A small onion.  She put it in the oven. Took out her tehillim and began to daven that the kugel should "gelung"

While she was davening. The rebbe. Grabbed a sack of potatoes some huge onoins a dozen eggs. A jug of oil. Salt feffer ahhh

He added his rebbetzin bite size kugel to a huge kugel for all the chassidim

The rebbetzin finishes davening

Looks into the oven and beams as she says ,
Naftali lOok my tefilla worked!

The rebbe says "yes your tefilla along with my massim tovim"




Keep on trucking


With

All

The

Love

In

The

World

H&H

bardichev

Good Shabbos
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Jan 2016 16:22 #275134

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote:
Parshas Beshalach:


Haym ra'ah vayanos.
Mah ra'ah? Arono shel Yosef ra'ah. (Midrash)

Is that what the sea was afraid of? A few old bones in a box??

The see was afraid of Atzmas Yosef - that atzmius of Yosef - the essence of yosef!! The sexual purity of Yosef Hatzadik that Klal Yisroel had within themselves!!!


A baal keri needs to immerse himself in the waters of a mikvah. The Yidden were soooo far removed from that, that not only did they not need to immerse themselves in the water. The water actually FLED when the Yidden entered the seabed!!!!

;D
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Jan 2016 00:29 #275192

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Efshar Letaken wrote:
I the Janitor of the Beis Medrash have the Power to clean up the garbage as I have already started to do & will continue to at 6pm EST so that those who choose can clean up there own shmutz.

Rabeinu Guard is doing an outstanding job personally getting involved in making sure we can all get along so that we can win this battle we are all fighting for.

Perhaps this story can help.

A Non Religious Jew once asked I think it was Reb Amnon Yitzchak. (He might of been asking it sarcastically) he said "I want to become frum but I don't know what sect to choose!"

1st you have Sfardim, Ashkanazim & Mizrachim

Then you have with in them you have so many other sects and everyone has their own way!

So how do I choose?

So he gave this gr8 comparison.

Rav Amnon Yitzchak asks him, The Army! They have Ground Troops, the Navy the Air Force, Comandos, Seals, Yasam, Golani, and so on. why so many different types? who are the ones that can win the war those are the ones we need! forget about the rest! Which one is the right one?!

The answer is we need them all! Everyone fights in there own way and together only together but every one with their own tactics can they win! you just have to see in what section of the army you can fight best & that's were you belong.

The Nimshal is obvious! We need the Sfardim, Ashkenazim, Mizrachim, Chasidim, Litvaks, Derech of Simche the Derech of Yireh, Torah, Tefila, Taharah & Yes Even the 12 steps, Evereyone in their own way with their own Tactics.

There's only one important thing to remember at the end of the day.

"We Are All Fighting For One Chief & Commander!"

"We Are All Here To Follow His Will!"

Also, I heard a great vort about Krias Yam Suf.

1) Why was it that the sea was split into 12 Separate lines one for each Tribe?
2) & if it was already Separated then why were the walls Crystal Clear so was one tribe able to look into the others?

The Answer is Gevaldig!

We all have are own Derech that we have to follow & not Budge from it! But! But! But! We have to see that the others also have a derech and they too have a Nosi Leading them & that Nosi is Following Toras Moshe MiSinai that Moshe Rabeinu got directly from Hashem!

So, I think that the message is loud & clear "Harbei Drachim La'Mokoim!"

So even if we disagree with one another on what Approach works in this fight, there's no need to get all Heated up or and using Hurtful words. WE CAN SAY THE SAME EXACT THINGS WITHOUT THE EXCITEMENT THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT & without getting PERSONAL.

Yes!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Jan 2016 16:16 #275319

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markz wrote:
Another point, is the words of the Gra zl in even shleima that Torah alone doesn't purify at all without the right mindset, it can even do the opposite

The heads of the reform movement knew more Torah than all of us put together...

To be continued another time


Now's the time! because I found one of GYE's darshanim's take on the matter, so without further ado, here goes

battleworn wrote:
 The Gemoroh in Kidushin 30b says בראתי...ואם אתם עוסקים בתורה אין אתם נמסרים בידו…  -Hashem said to Am Yisroel “I created the y”h and I created The Torah as a “spice” for him. If you are involved with the Torah you will not be given over in to the hands of the y”h”. The questions I want to discuss are: (1) What’s the y”h? (2) What does a “spice” mean? (3) What does it mean to be involved? (4) What is the Torah? (5) What does “you will not be given over in to his hands” mean? And of course, why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

Similarly, Chazal tell us that the Torah improves your personality in every way and to a very great extent (see Pirkei Avos 6’1). But Chazal also tell us that one who learns Torah and doesn’t act properly makes a great chilul Hashem. In light of everything that the Torah is supposed to do to a person, how is it possible to not act properly if you learn Torah?

The Zohar Hakodosh says that all the mitzvohs are meant to save us from the y”h. Why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

The posuk says כל מצותיך אמונה. One of the meanings of this posuk is that all mitzvohs bring us to Emunah. Why does it often seem that they don’t? [This is very important to us because Emunah is the key to braking out of the y”h’s clutches.]

What comes first, action or intention? In other words which one is the cause and which one is the effect?

The Arizal says that if you learn Torah without first doing Teshuva then the Torah could actually c”v make you worse. How can that be if the Torah is supposed to be what brings a person to teshuva?

I think if we answer the first 5 questions, the rest will be answered automatically. First, what is the y”h? In order to answer that, we need to know what we would be like without the y”h. {The question of whether the y”h is an angel or a part of us, is not relevant to our discussion.}

Without the y”h we would automatically gravitate only towards Hashem and automatically keep all the mitzvohs, because that’s the very essence of our soul. We would automatically run from lust more than from physical death. Not just from sin, but from all lust, because by definition any other desire is a contradiction to our desire for Hashem. Any other desire causes a separation between us and Hashem which by definition is a separation between us and everything good. In fact it’s a separation between us and The very Source of our existence. The threat of a separation between us and Hashem is a much more serious threat than any threat to our physical existence. We therefore would not have “bechira” because there wouldn’t be anything to choose about.

The y”h has what would seem like an impossible job. He has to somehow confuse us so badly, to the point that we could actually want to do things that are much more damaging to ourselves than physical death. That’s quite a task! So how in the world can he accomplish this?

He accomplishes it by perverting the very desire-for-Hashem itself. He concentrates on the desire that we feel, while covering up the Object of our desire. He confuses us about the void that we feel. He tells us that it’s a need for lust when really it’s a need for Hashem.

And how does he do all this? By making us think that we have our own separate existence that is not dependant on Hashem. By convincing us, that we are something else other than a “shli’ach”- emissary of Hashem. This delusion is called גיאות and is the source of sources of all sin, all faults of character and all negative emotions.{R’ Tzadok Hacohen in Tzidkas Hatzadik discusses all this}If a person realizes that he is nothing but an emissary of Hashem Himself, there’s absolutely no room for arrogance, low self esteem, self consciousness or anything else negative.

Once he gets us to c’v sin, it causes a separation between us and Hashem and between our pnimius and our chitzonius. This in turn makes his job much easier, because that separation makes us not see who we really are. It in turn causes our lives to be full of frustration, anxiety etc. Deep in our heart we know that this whole mess is caused by a “lack of Hashem” but the y”h continues to delude us. In addition (and it says in seforim that this is the main part) he uses the sin to “prove” to us that we are not really connected to Hashem at all, but rather we are c”v connected to the “opposite side.” In addition he tells us that now Hashem is disgusted by us, so whatever connection there may have been before the sin, is definitely gone by now.

He goes on to explain that the only realistic way to fill the void is with lust. We get easily fooled because the lust provides immediate relief (for at least a second) while getting close to Hashem takes time and work. The cycle continues and his job gets easier and easier. (1) In answer to the first question, the y”h is the force that pulls us away from Hashem and towards other desires by confusing us with delusions.

So now Hashem says that He provided a remedy (a spice). This does not mean that if we choose that we don’t want to do a particular “aveiroh” then we should throw the Torah at him. (2) Rather it’s a remedy against the whole confusion that the y’h causes. If you want to think straight and get rid of the fallacies of the y”h, that can be accomplished through Torah.

(3) The way it’s accomplished through Torah is by being involved in Torah. One who is involved in the Torah is connecting with Hashem actively with a greater connection than any connection found in the physical world between any two things. (Nefesh Hachaim shaar 4 perek 6 and Tanya perek 5, It’s worth learning it before the next time you learn Torah) If you are involved with Hashem [as explained in those sources] by definition you can’t also be involved with lust. The two are mutually exclusive.

(4) But we need to know what the Torah is. A person has the ability to separate the Torah from Hashem. This is called learning מן השפה ולחוץ.  That means that he doesn’t want to connect to the spirit of the Torah but rather he’s only interested in the Torah as a science. He prefers to remain connected to “the other side” although he may very well be desperately trying to stop sinning. Not only will the Torah not help, it will make things worse (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 5 and Ba’er Heitiv O’CH siman 571 s”k 1)He must realize that the Torah is Dvar Hashem and connecting with Torah is connecting with Hashem, and disconnecting from foreign desires.

If someone learns Torah with the spirit of  Hashem in mind and he wants to change direction and turn away from lust and towards Hashem, then the Torah will accomplish exactly that. (5) That’s what it means “you will not be given over in to his hands”- he will no longer be able to delude you in to directing all your energy towards destroying yourself, by distancing yourself from Hashem. Instead you’ll direct all that energy to connecting with Hashem – The Source of all good, all pleasure and all happiness!

[There are other prerequisites for “Torah tavlin” (like not speaking loshon horoh) but for the most part, once you have the right attitude everything else will work out. A very basic prerequisite is Emunah in the power of Torah to change you. R’ Tzvi Meir says (in the name of the Besh’t the Chasam Sofer and others) that very often the y”h knows that he can’t weaken our Emunah in the Torah. So he tells us that Chazal were talking only about people who are on a high level. But when we learn, it’s not the real thing so it can’t really change us. This is a tremendous pitfall, because if we have Emunah in the power of our Limud Hatorah it will definitely change us totally.]

The above applies –of course-also to all other remedies (like Tefiloh, Mitzvohs, mikveh etc.) The Rishonim (Chinuch, Chovos Halvovos and Rambam) taught us that the way we act affects us greatly. Just as intention leads to action, so to does action lead to intention. If Emunah and being close to Hashem make us do mitzvohs, then doing mitvohs makes us have Emunah and brings us close to Hashem. But only if we want to be close to Hashem; and that means to want to drop all foreign desires.

Practically speaking, how do we make sure that we have the right attitude? If we sunk so low, how do we make sure that we “want” to change? This is an old problem and the answer is to be found in the famous words of Hoshe’a Hanavi (14, 2-3) שובה ישראל עד ד' אלוקיך....קחו עמכם דברים.... “Return, Yisroel, [all the way back] until Hashem your G-d for you have stumbled in your sins. TAKE WITH YOU WORDS…"  We need to speak it out with Hashem (see the commentaries on this posuk) R’ Pinkus used to say that the most basic prerequisite for sholom bayis [between Hashem and us] is open communication. We need to say to Hashem "אלכה ואשובה אל אישי הראשון. No more cheating on You, no more foreign desires, I want only You and nothing else". By saying it on a regular basis, we start to feel it more and more.

But the Seforim Hakidoshim (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 7 among others) give an even more immediate solution. Each time you’re about to learn Torah; before you start, take a couple of minutes to speak to Hashem. Say to Him: “I have sinned but I deeply regret it. I have been fooled by the y”h in to straying, but really all I want is You. Please take pity on me that the Torah should not c”v be considered like the Torah of a rasha. Rather it should change me like only the Torah can, it should bring me close to you and the fire of Torah should burn up all garbage that I absorbed. Please help me remember what learning Torah is all about and save me from the y”h who works tirelessly to make me forget all these things. Etc…”  

To sum up, there are two things we need to do in order for these things to work.

1) We need to understand what it is that we should want it to do for us.

2) We need to speak it out with Hashem both in general and particularly before Learning Torah.

Hashem should take pity on us and all of Klal Yisroel and take us out of the darkness; both the darkness of our private golus and the darkness of the general galus and we should all be zocheh very, very soon to see אור חדש על ציון תאיר במהרה בימינו


This is irrelevant to the point that many of us need more than learning Torah for our recovery, but I quoted this to highlight the point that תורה תבלין is only true when done correctly
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Jan 2016 03:23 #275383

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ur-a-jew wrote:
Saw a wonderful vort from Rabbi Zilberstein this past Shabbos (Borchi Nofshi - Parshas Pekudai):

Reb Zilberstein brings down a shaila from Reb Yehoshua Karlinsky who asks on the Rambam which says (Ishus Perek 15 Halacha 19) that a person has to love his wife like himself ("k'gufo").  What chiddush is the Rambam adding when he says "love your wife like yourself" there is a mitzvah to love everyone like yourself.  Reb Zilberstein says the question was asked to Reb Chaim Kanievski who answered as follows:

The Gemara in Nidah 16b says:

אמר רבי שמעון בן יוחאי ארבעה דברים הקב"ה שונאן ואני איני אוהבן הנכנס לביתו פתאום ואצ"ל לבית חבירו

There are four things that Hashem hates and I don't love them. 

Says Reb Chaim Kanievsky, that from the perspective of V'Ahvta Lrayacha Komocha there is no obligation to love a person who does one of these things.  But that is only when it comes to other people.  When a person is dealing with one's wife even if she does things that Reb Shimon Ben Yochai says he doesn't love a person who does those things, it is only to exempt them from the mitzvah of V'Ahvta, a person still has an obligation under the chiyuv to love your wife "K'gufo" to love her notwithstanding her doing these things.  This stems from the obligation of  וידעת כי שלום אהלך a person must do whatever it takes to insure that there is sholom in his home.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 00:43 #275733

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פרשת יתרו

אל תגשו אל אשה ותרגומו לצד איתתא, ודקדק בשנוי הלשון, ותירץ מי שהוא בצד זה, אינו בצד אחר

האדמור מקוצק
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 15:08 #275800

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 20 Jan 2011 16:14:
Parshas Yisro:


Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 20 Jan 2011 16:11:

Parshas Yisro:


Vayichad Yisro:

      =  Yisro rejoiced together with his newfound co-religionists.
      =  Yisro's skin 'prickled' upon hearing about the demise of his former colleagues, the Egyptians.

Are these two statements contradictory?





A GYE Member:
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  • We long for the pleasurable sensation we got through lusting.



Am I living a contradiction?


The above Rashi concludes that for 10 generations we mustn't belittle a gentile in the face of a ger.

This may be a source in the Torah for the axiom:
Once an Addict, Always an Addict.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Jan 2016 15:09 #275801

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 01 Feb 2015 11:57:
Parshas Yisro:


V'higbalta ess ha'am saviv leimor hishomru lachem alois bahar... (19:12)
Vayomer Hashem el Moshe Leich ha'eid b'am...
Vayomer Moshe el hashem lo yuchal haam laalos el Har Sinai ki atah ha'eidosa banu ...
Vayomer eilav Hashem lech reid [v'ha'eid b'hem sheinis[sub]{Rashi}[/sub]]
(19:23-24)

Hashem commanded us to set boundaries and install filters.

Hashem told Moshe to warn us again.

Moshe queried of Hashem, "Why is a fresh warning necessary? The filters are already installed. Klal Yisroel cannot access the mountain even if they tried!"

Hashem responded, "No Moshe, a filter is NOT foolproof. Moshe, only YOU and Aharon when he is with you (Attah v'Aharon imach) are on such a level but the general multitudes cannot afford to rely on filters."
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Jan 2016 14:34 #275952

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Parshas Yisro

Why did Yisro come?

He heard about the splitting of the sea and the war with Amalek.

What has the one to do with the other?

Amalek wasn't simply a nation of murderous criminals. They were fighting against God Himself, as the verse say, they “did not fear God" (Deuteronomy 25:18). When the Jews were in Egypt, everyone had heard of the great miracles that occurred such as the ten plagues and the splitting of the Red Sea. The Jewish people were a reflection of the Divine Will and Purpose.

An attack on the Jews was by default and attack on God. This was manifested by the fact that Amalek threw the castrated organs toward Heaven, in defiance of God, as if to say, “We despise the holy covenant of Bris Milah.”

Contrast to that - the sea splitting in the merit of Yosef Hatzadik, that cried out “We uphold the holy covenant of Bris Milah.”

GS
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Last Edit: 29 Jan 2016 14:35 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 Jan 2016 16:16 #276052

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מצות עונה

PART ONE


צדיק גמור wrote on 21 Aug 2013 00:54:
ok let me make it cleare. i never dinied this need and/or mitzvah. i abuse it. i abused my wife because i needed to be mekayem this mitzva. (by the way, i was never concern on she'era & kesusa. maybe i need to get a better paying job? maybe i need to work overtime? why only on onasa i was so machmir even when she wasn't in the moode? a point to think


cordnoy wrote on 21 Aug 2013 01:09:
one is not machmir on the mitzvah of onah when he has sex with his wife when she is not willing. That borders on rape, and I highly doubt there is any kiyum mitzvah whatsoever


************************

Lizhensk wrote on 17 Dec 2013 12:15:
redfire wrote:
now when it comes to my wife its tricky, on the one hand i know her emotional and spiritual side well, so she is not a piece of fleish, but on the other hand she is a women i have relations with, piece of fleish, so i gotta find the proper balance of being attracted to her as my wife while not allowing that attraction to go to "fleish for me" territory.

thanks all.

I think lfi aniyas daati, that thinking of ur wife as a piece of fleish, is not the right thing to be thinking of before, during or after relations. If youre having relations for the right reasons, you wouldnt be thinking that. If im right the right thought to have is that you want to become one person and one neshoma together (km'vooer b'zohar - dont ask me where). So if youre thinking that, or something remotely close to that, you wont be thinking of your wife as fleish and then, it probaby would be easier to control your mind. I might be totally wrong, hey, im bad at this myself, but i try.


cordnoy wrote on 18 Dec 2013 06:10:
Piece of fleish!?
Why don't you use rib-steak, a hot dog, hamburger or some roast perhaps?

You know, those of us who were/are porn addicts (myself included) were told that it is impossible for us to view our wives as who they really are, for whenever we are in the bedroom, we are thinking j.d., a.h., j.j., etc. Some of us argued (probably I did once or twice as well) that we have a clear demarcation line. We don't allow any porn starts into our bedroom; but, like we all admit to at some point, that is simply b.s. We cannot divorce the two. If we have allowed those images and scenes to infiltrate our brain, that is what we view when we are partaking in the "heilige" act of lovemaking that Lizhensk eluded to above.

Regardless of this rant, please o' please, do not view your wife as "fleish." That should not be in the equation at all.

I will not go as far as the chasid above that you should think of connecting as one. It is a mitzvah min HaTorah of onah. Your wife certainly is supposed to enjoy it. Perhaps, you are as well. Think of it as fulfilling your obligation; spending and enjoying time with your wife.

And something my therapist has been hitting home about: Do you wanna stay with your wife forever? Do you want your entire focus and attention to be on her? If yes, think positive and plan accordingly. Treat her as such. If not....enjoy your donut!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 Jan 2016 16:37 #276054

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markz wrote on 31 Jan 2016 16:16:
מצות עונה

PART ONE


צדיק גמור wrote on 21 Aug 2013 00:54:
ok let me make it cleare. i never dinied this need and/or mitzvah. i abuse it. i abused my wife because i needed to be mekayem this mitzva. (by the way, i was never concern on she'era & kesusa. maybe i need to get a better paying job? maybe i need to work overtime? why only on onasa i was so machmir even when she wasn't in the moode? a point to think


cordnoy wrote on 21 Aug 2013 01:09:
one is not machmir on the mitzvah of onah when he has sex with his wife when she is not willing. That borders on rape, and I highly doubt there is any kiyum mitzvah whatsoever


************************

Lizhensk wrote on 17 Dec 2013 12:15:
redfire wrote:
now when it comes to my wife its tricky, on the one hand i know her emotional and spiritual side well, so she is not a piece of fleish, but on the other hand she is a women i have relations with, piece of fleish, so i gotta find the proper balance of being attracted to her as my wife while not allowing that attraction to go to "fleish for me" territory.

thanks all.

I think lfi aniyas daati, that thinking of ur wife as a piece of fleish, is not the right thing to be thinking of before, during or after relations. If youre having relations for the right reasons, you wouldnt be thinking that. If im right the right thought to have is that you want to become one person and one neshoma together (km'vooer b'zohar - dont ask me where). So if youre thinking that, or something remotely close to that, you wont be thinking of your wife as fleish and then, it probaby would be easier to control your mind. I might be totally wrong, hey, im bad at this myself, but i try.


cordnoy wrote on 18 Dec 2013 06:10:
Piece of fleish!?
Why don't you use rib-steak, a hot dog, hamburger or some roast perhaps?

You know, those of us who were/are porn addicts (myself included) were told that it is impossible for us to view our wives as who they really are, for whenever we are in the bedroom, we are thinking j.d., a.h., j.j., etc. Some of us argued (probably I did once or twice as well) that we have a clear demarcation line. We don't allow any porn starts into our bedroom; but, like we all admit to at some point, that is simply b.s. We cannot divorce the two. If we have allowed those images and scenes to infiltrate our brain, that is what we view when we are partaking in the "heilige" act of lovemaking that Lizhensk eluded to above.

Regardless of this rant, please o' please, do not view your wife as "fleish." That should not be in the equation at all.

I will not go as far as the chasid above that you should think of connecting as one. It is a mitzvah min HaTorah of onah. Your wife certainly is supposed to enjoy it. Perhaps, you are as well. Think of it as fulfilling your obligation; spending and enjoying time with your wife.

And something my therapist has been hitting home about: Do you wanna stay with your wife forever? Do you want your entire focus and attention to be on her? If yes, think positive and plan accordingly. Treat her as such. If not....enjoy your donut!


It bothers me that I don't remember who those abbreviations are anymore.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Feb 2016 00:55 #276549

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TORAH TAVLIN...

Dov wrote:
dozens[/i] more - and love all of them. None of the ones I know ever got sober because of the chassidus they have learned, and they readily admit that. And they work recovery humbly. And they are still mashpi'im and rabbis, etc., just as they were all the years they were having sex with themselves or others. What got them sober and keeps them sober is the getting out of G-d's way that they now do one day at a time, be"H. All the Tanya in the world did not help them do it before, and how ironic it is that they found the tools to do that by attending meetings with goyim - or even worse, with misnagdim! I should know, for my first SA sponsor was a goy (and BTW, in 15 years of sobriety he never once brought up his or my own religion!). And finally, one of the precious brochos that I only learned from the 12-step program is that even though I am sober for over 17 years one day at a time now, it is not because of Torah. Rather, it is because I allowed concepts that are in the Torah (and found elsewhere, too) into myself in a practical sense. So I will never be fooled that it was my religiosity that got me sober. No one can trick me into retroactively saying it was my frumkeit or yiddishkeit that got me sober! Boruch Hashem for that. For that would be the first step back into the toilet bowl for me, since it would just be a face-saving lie. And lying/faking is far more toxic for me than even lusting is. So if anybody can learn these things from chassidus, then the one relevant question is this: "Is it working for you? Are you sober from it and staying sober, or not?" If so, then great! Keep doing it! But it obviously does not work many, because here we who have been learning chassidus are right here on GYE! If 'chasidus' or 'Torah' works, then how'd we get into this mess in the first place and why are we still looking for help? There is an elephant in the room, boys. And it's feet are sticky...  If it is not working for us, that's OK - for you are not alone! You can join the club. SA meetings/12 steps is not the only answer there is, but I know many, many sober sexaholics who are even frummer than you and I are, and yet are b"H sober through 12-step recovery today. Had they remained frum-and-always-getting-holier...they'd still be masturbating themselves and worse, using porn 'mit a firedikeh brenn' and later 'doing Teshuvah ila'ah', confusing themselves more and more and living in a slow hell - as they proved for years and years. The very same journey that so many of us frum, sober pervs are familiar with.
 
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 02:05 #278993

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OTR wrote on 24 Feb 2016 01:28:
Thought I would share one more thought: 

I am not a big mussar advocate (with regard to addiction that is) but this thought really lifted my spirits. What a person can see in a day in these times is more pritzus than their great grandparents could maybe see in 70 years. It follows then that a second of guarding your eyes in THIS generation is more than the shmiras ainayim of the people in the earlier generations. 

Gemara Sanhedrin 98b
'Ulla said; Let him [The Messiah] come, but let me not see him.

אמר רב אין בן דוד בא עד שתתפשט המלכות על ישראל תשעה חדשים שנאמר (מיכה ה, ב) לכן יתנם עד עת יולדה ילדה ויתר אחיו ישובון על בני ישראל אמר עולא ייתי ולא איחמיניה וכן אמר [רבה] ייתי ולא איחמיניה

Can we say the following?

These amoraim knew that how difficult the test of Guarding Our Eyes would be that they said - Let the Days of Moshiach come, and let me not see - blindfold me, because the test is too great

Guys - we are here
We can do it
Lets bring Moshiach Now bb"a
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 02:37 #278998

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markz wrote on 24 Feb 2016 02:05:

OTR wrote on 24 Feb 2016 01:28:
Thought I would share one more thought: 

I am not a big mussar advocate (with regard to addiction that is) but this thought really lifted my spirits. What a person can see in a day in these times is more pritzus than their great grandparents could maybe see in 70 years. It follows then that a second of guarding your eyes in THIS generation is more than the shmiras ainayim of the people in the earlier generations. 





Gemara Sanhedrin 98b
'Ulla said; Let him [The Messiah] come, but let me not see him.

אמר רב אין בן דוד בא עד שתתפשט המלכות על ישראל תשעה חדשים שנאמר (מיכה ה, ב) לכן יתנם עד עת יולדה ילדה ויתר אחיו ישובון על בני ישראל אמר עולא ייתי ולא איחמיניה וכן אמר [רבה] ייתי ולא איחמיניה





Can we say the following?

These amoraim knew that how difficult the test of Guarding Our Eyes would be that they said - Let the Days of Moshiach come, and let me not see - blindfold me, because the test is too great

Guys - we are here
We can do it
Lets bring Moshiach Now bb"a



Mark this gem was actually a recycled vort from the old Bardy who is no longer on the forum. I found it while searching for something else entirely and took chizuk form it. I can show you the original post. Something so amazing I now have a perspective of- What we do here really does remain and can inspire others for the good.

And it works the other way too.. A guy who posts his chizuk, his striving etc..on the forum and then goes off c'vsh and begins acting out again... Let's say he leaves the forum entirely in frustration or depression... But does he also realize that a new fellow walked in as soon as he left. That guy took chizuk from what he had written earlier. MAybe a year later if he would come back and see that his old post inspired someone to be clean for a year he would see how much his efforts did.

It's an amazing power this thing. Not just in getting out of isolation. But in recording our conversations, our efforts and seeing b'chush- that the good we do does not go away, even if we slip as individuals, what we have done can and does continue on.

I have some old friends from my first group. I see their posts here now and they are not sober now. So of course as people inside now we look and say- too bad.... look at them they are lost now... And that is true, they are not happy. BUT, their struggles and words can still inspire people here... It is amazing. 
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Last Edit: 24 Feb 2016 04:13 by OTR.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 24 Feb 2016 23:18 #279124

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gibbor120 wrote on 25 Jan 2014 00:31:

dd wrote:
how can i still do תשובה before shabbos and know for once that its real .please chevrah i need you guys to help me.



There's a great sefer called תשובה על רגל אחת. I think that is the one you are looking for.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
.

Take it easy. Really, Teshuva is not an "event" it is a "process". Worry about one day at a time. Take recovery actions, and sometime down the road you will realize that you have been sober for 10 years and you are not quite sure how that happened.

Obsessing about doing teshuva today for an aveirah you have been doing for years (i can't remember your exact history) doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Keep on truckin, do the things that have helped others. Reach out to real recovering people.

You will have hatzlacha IY"H, but not al regel achas .
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Feb 2016 00:31 #279465

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Anonymous - Unanuman

I sure hope my good friend Dov does not read this post

What is the basis of anonymous names?

I think there's source to it in the Heilge Rambam that wrote

ד מדרכי התשובה להיות השב צועק תמיד לפני השם בבכי ובתחנונים ועושה צדקה כפי כחו ומתרחק הרבה מן הדבר שחטא בו ומשנה שמו כלומר אני אחר ואיני אותו האיש שעשה אותן המעשים ומשנה מעשיו כולן לטובה ולדרך ישרה וגולה ממקומו. שגלות מכפרת עון מפני שגורמת לו להכנע ולהיות עניו ושפל רוח:


The regular member of GYE that is interested in recovery does precisely those things the Rambam mentions
משנה שמו
I almost forgot my prior name - jk

משנה מעשיו
Each man to his own

וגולה ממקומו
And finds a new life with new friends on gye, some of whom will remind / teach him to be an עניו ושפל רוח
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Feb 2016 22:08 #279563

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markz wrote on 19 Jan 2016 14:07:

bardichev wrote:
Beshalach-Shabbos SHIRA tuf shin ayin alef


KEEP ON TRUCKING

By:bardichev

This dvar Torah is dedicated to my good chver Zemiros Shabbos

May he see bracha vihatazlacha in all his endeavors

The place:Somewhere near Egypt

The time:chol hamoed
Pesach

The yidden are trapped in the deset

The Egyptian Cavalry all of it and all their legions. The entire Egyptian army are bearing down on the Jews
The jews are between a rock and a hard place

The only place they can go is forward

Slight issue homo-sapians are not amphibians.

What is there to do

No retreat
No where to turn

So the Jews do what Jews always do they pray!

Gevaldiggggg??

Nisht!

Hashem says why are you screaming

??

Speak to the people and tell them to get moving

YAYISOO-ee (vayisa-uu)

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!

Fregt bards

What was wrong with prayer?

There is  a huge lesson here

Huge

When facing a personal challenge

We can't say

I tried

I cried

I prayed

No no no

Do something posotive

Drive forward

Even if it means jumping into the sea

Vayisa-uu!!

Too often I see here on the forum. People are haunted by their own demons

Leave them behind you!! Ayyy they are chasing you?! Just keep on trucking!

Of course tefilla!but like Hashem says tefilla plus action

Like the Rupshotzers kugel

The rupshizer roov reb naftali horovitz talmid of the (chozeh)Lubliner

His rebbetzin was a bit stingy but a big tzaddekes

So she made a small kugel one potato. A small onion.  She put it in the oven. Took out her tehillim and began to daven that the kugel should "gelung"

While she was davening. The rebbe. Grabbed a sack of potatoes some huge onoins a dozen eggs. A jug of oil. Salt feffer ahhh

He added his rebbetzin bite size kugel to a huge kugel for all the chassidim

The rebbetzin finishes davening

Looks into the oven and beams as she says ,
Naftali lOok my tefilla worked!

The rebbe says "yes your tefilla along with my massim tovim"




Keep on trucking


With

All

The

Love

In

The

World

H&H

bardichev

Good Shabbos


 

I wish Bards would at least do PHONE calls. I'd call in for  abardichever kumzitz, or a shot at bardys pub... 
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Mar 2016 18:01 #280120

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MBJ wrote:
Sorry if this will rub people the wrong way, but I have to get this off my chest.

Every time I read someone writing pas besalo I get angry. Like I want to reach through the web page and smack the guy around a bit. If I could erase this horribly abused phrase from everyone who has even glanced at gye I would. There is a phrase from a certain type of porn I used to watch called '*** ********' (moderators feel free to redact that but I wrote it for a reason). And every time someone says pas besalo here, that is the first word association for me, because that is what they mean.

Don't get me wrong I know the phrase is from the gemara and is quotesd in rishonim and sifrei halacha, but it has been so distorted from its original intent.

It reminds of the passuk ואל אישך תשוקתך. Which used to make me angry, why is my wife not desiring me? Where is the curse? Me in my lust warped brain thought that meant my wife should be waiting for me every night in bed with lingerie begging me to have sex with her. But of course Hashem was talking to chava and not to adam, and she understood what He meant. That she needs the love and validation from her husband. as Rav Arush repeats several times, the husband is like the sun and the wife like the moon, reflecting her husband's light.

So to with pas besalo. Lust addicts read that and say I can do whatever the heck I want. I can fantasize, I can stare because I have my wife to use as a sex toy. The real gemara that started this phrase is as follows on yuma 67a:
מעולם לא הוצרך אדם לכך אלא שאינו דומה מי שיש לו פת בסלו למי שאין לו פת בסלו
Meaning when a person has no food available he will be more desperate, when he knows where his next meal is coming from he is less desperate to find food.
Tranlated to your wife it means that a NORMAL married person should be less easily aroused becasue he knows that his wife is there. So he can be slightly less cautious when peeing for example.

The messed up addicts think it is no big deal if I get myself aroused because my wife is there. And if I get myself aroused she had better damn well be there to save me from the sin of hashchatas zera levatala.

I promise you there is no mishna gemara chazal responsa or chasidisha vort anywhere that says it is ok to lust and fantasize and stare at women in the street if you are married because a holy jewish wife has to save her holy jewish husband from sinning by being his [outlet].
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Mar 2016 20:19 #280147

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No comment ;-)
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Mar 2016 14:04 #280255

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the.guard wrote:
7Up sent me this awesome PM:

Rage wrote to me last night about his fear of being in a hotel room with TV and open filter. This is part of what I replied. Thought we could all gain from Rav Taubers perspective:

***

Your comment about the TV and internet reminded me of a shiur I once heard from Rav Ezriel Tauber:

He too was traveling, and was delayed overnight after a long hard day. The airline put him up in a fancy hotel with a huge TV screen and internet access. Being Rabbi Tauber, these posed no real challenge for him though, and he took out his sefer, sat on the couch and proceeded to learn. Within minutes he was fast asleep! After a significant period of time, he woke up and started to cry. "Tatty, my (great?)grandparents were workers. They rose at dawn, put in a whole day of hard physical labor and returned home totally spent. But what did they do a soon as they got home? They went to the shul and spent the next few hours learning, regardless of their exhaustion.Their learning came at tremendous personal sacrifice. And me? I spent my day traveling and speaking, not backbreaking anything, yet I cant even give You the pleasure of a few hours learning?? "


But then he stopped and put it back in perspective. "Previous doros served You with "asei tov".  I will serve via "sur me'rah". Here I am Tatty, faced with a huge TV screen and full internet access. I am all alone so no one will ever know if I turned them on. No one but You and I. And this is my gift to both You, and myself. My karbon of self sacrifice will be not touching those 'on' buttons."

***

Every second that we withstand the nisayon and dont give in to our personal teivos, is no less precious to HKBH than all the karbonos our grandparents brought in the Beis Hamikdash. 'Sur me'rah' is the challenge of our dor.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 13 Mar 2016 18:58 #281211

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Seeking the Light in the Darkness

I heard some tremendous Chizuk from Rabbi Efriam Wachsman in a shiur titled "Megilas Esther: Discovering the Depths of Our Neshomos":

(Note: In general, Rabbi Wachsman's shiurim often give chizuk to those who struggle with the Yetzer Harrah.To hear his Shiurim, call the Yeshiva at 845-426-3488. There is an extension for the tape and CD library.)

The Rizhiner explains that in one way, Purim is greater than Yom Kipur (Yom Ki- Purim. A day that is only "like" Purim, but not as great).

Yom Kippur atones for the Shavim (Those who return - i.e. repent), while Purim atones for the Shavim and the Aino Shavim (those who return and those who do not return).

What does it mean that Purim atones for the Aino Shavim, those who do not return?

The Rizhiner explains that Purim is a holy day for those who repent but yet continue to fall. They are labeled "Aino Shavim" because they continually have to face their struggle. Purim is all about seeing the light in an atmosphere of total darkness. It is about seeking out Hashem even if we feel we are in total darkness and may be feeling ashamed or low. Hashem says "Anochi Hastir Astir Panai ("I will utterly hide my face from you"), yet in that same pasuk is the remez (hint) to Esther , our salvation. Hashem rejoices when we reach out to him, and when we rejoice in our effort to seek Hashem out.

GYE is about seeking out the light in the dark world around us. It is about confronting struggles that have plagued us for years. We may have continued to fall many times, yet we - as a family - are seeking out the light to overcome our addictions. We are finding Hashem in the darkness. That is the true holy essence of Purim, and that is why Purim is the happiest day of the year.

May we all tap into the holy day of Purim. May we all find Hashem in the darkness. May we all have extra Siatah Dishmayah to overcome our illness and may we all rejoice in re-discovering ourselves.

A Freylicha Purim!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Mar 2016 22:21 #281417

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Kedusha wrote:

Rav Moshe Feinstein held that a manuscript allegedly written by a Rishon was forged because, among other reasons, of the following question and answer contained in the manuscript: Q.) Why is Mishkav Zachor forbidden by the Torah? A.) Because engaging in such behavior is a bitul of pirya v'rivya.

For starters, says Rav Moshe, the very question is making light of what the Torah calls a to'eiva. And the answer does the same thing - if the entire problem were a bitul of pirya v'rivya, then why does the Torah describe it as an abomination?

Rav Moshe, therefore, held that it is forbidden to publish this manuscript, even without the offending passages, because, who knows what other statements keneged the Emes are contained therein, which have yet to be discovered? (I have heard from a reliable source that Rav Shlomo Zalman and, ybl"c, Rav Elyashiv, allowed the sefer to be published, provided that the offending passages were removed).

In our case, we're, at least, talking about a behavior that is not against nature (Kederech Kol Ha'aretz). But, we need to remember that, by asking what's wrong with it, we're (unintentionally) making light of something that should be utterly repulsive to us.

On that note, Rav Avigdor Miller said over that someone once presented him with the following logic: The Rambam says that we shouldn't say that chazer is disgusting, rather we should say that chazer may well be delicious, but, what can we do - the Torah forbids it. The person argued that we should feel the same way about Gilui Arayos - it's wonderful, but what can we do - the Torah forbids it.

Rav Miller responded that this is not the Torah Hashkafa. We should be repulsed by chazer and by arayos, for the very reason that the Torah forbids them. The Rambam is simply saying that we shouldn't pretend that chazer tastes bad or that arayos involves no short term pleasure. But we should be totally repulsed by both, because the Torah forbids them.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 Mar 2016 22:36 #281539

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I viewed porn. Am I normal?? Do I need filters????
gibbor120 wrote on 29 Apr 2015 17:00:
I've seen in seforim that the "main" bechira we have is to avoid triggering situations in the first place. That doesn't mean we have no bechira after that point. Only that it becomes extremely difficult (and in some cases, we may in fact not have bechira at that point)


I wanna ask Gibbor120 for more on this topic, but this is what I have on my 'desk'
__________________

"I feel like a piece of garbage - I feel terrible for viewing porn, and Mast* etc..."
Actually that may not be the worst thing we did

What's more serious, is that I kept the door open, to enable those outcomes.

We all have a beast inside us that when confronted with porn, the beast attacks (Some of us have a more violent beast, and this post isn't necessarily for those members)

Who has a lust beast? All men, without exception (besides for a negligible minority)

Reb Amram Chasida ("Pious Amram") in the Gemara that was normal like this. When he was alone with eye tempting women, his beast gave him unnatural adrenaline to access them, until he defeated the beast with a "partner call". R Meir too (kiddushin 81a)
Steve wrote on 21 Jan 2010 22:58:

Famous story of Rav Aaron Kotler, ztk"l. He went w/ gabboim to see a gevir in a penthouse suite in a Florida Hotel. During the elevator ride up, a woman in a bathing suit comes on, to get to her floor. Obviously all 3 men avoided looking. Downstairs later, trying to leave, the gabboim couldn't find R' Aaron. Finally they found him, sitting in a chair, against the wall facing a corner of the lobby, crying. They overheard him saying "Ribbono Shel Olam!! - What did I do to deserve such a test!!"

Even TZIDKUS doesn't completely remove the YH for these inyanim. Could mere AGE stand a chance?




Hence the creation of 'fences' to protect from encountering that universal beast

This is unlike deterrents that actively protect you from evil. A fence is not an active deterrent, but a passive shield putting you out of harms way. Like Gevura's analogy - who compares it to a fence by the edge of a cliff, which deter anyone that decides to circumvent the fence

Fences come in different forms, eg white-list, filter, accountability partner, 3 second rule, device time lockdowns etc

Since this is your beast, it's your responsibility to set those fences for yourself / your children

For many of us I venture to say that Having a fall is less of a sin to Gd than skipping "filters etc."

Because Restrictions are in our hands,
The tests are in Gd's
פורץ גדר ישכנו נחש (קהלת י:ח)
(העובר על דברי חכמים חייב מיתה בידי שמים (ברכות ד: ועי׳ עירובין כא:)
דברי חכמים is the חכמים of 2016.
If they request filters etc, it can be more severe than איסור דאורייתא
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


There's 2 types of YH. Internal, and external (Vilna Gaon). Which is easier to conquer?
R' Yerucham of Mir zl demonstrates from the insistence of the Torah to repeatedly restrict external temptations, that the external is much more difficult to overcome

מה יעשה הבן ולא יחטא
I have a feeling this is regarding יצהר מבחוץ.
If you put your teenager in dangerous location, eg drugs etc. the onus is primarily on the parent, although the child has their own responsibility to do their best like Yosef haTzadik.

Unfortunately nowadays the יצהר מבחוץ has infiltrated our homes and is בפנים

May we merit to bring the Shechina בפנים, which is the true meaning of משנכנס אדר מרבים בשמחה
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Last Edit: 17 Mar 2016 03:24 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Mar 2016 12:56 #281967

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עד דלא ידע (את אשתו) בין ארור המן לברוך מרדכי


yechidah wrote on 31 Jan 2011 20:35:
All single men
Looking for a  beautiful woman to marry

All married men
Looking for a beautiful woman
That he does not see in his wife
And “thinks” he sees in another


Remember This:

Hayafa BaNashim”
Which means “the most  beautiful of women”
Has the numerical value of 502

It is the same numerical value as
“Arur Haman”-“Cursed be Haman”

Also 502

And yet it also has the same numerical value
As “Boruch Mordechai”-“Blessed be Mordechai”

Also 502

So proceed with caution, single men,

Take a step back, married men

You want a beautiful woman

Think of what you wish for

A bride befitting a Mordechai?

Or a witch befitting a Haman?

They may externally look equally exquisite

Both a whopping “502”

Yet one is the truest blessing
And the other is Hell on this earth!!!

Is it the Haman within you seeing her?
Or is it Mordechai within you that perceives her ?

So single men ,pray to God
So you can “see” clearly
The truth of beauty

And married men
See the beauty hidden in what is before you
And if you can’t?
Then tap into the gift of Mordechai
Who saw in Esther
The “Chut Hachesed”
That made her beautiful.
And pray for that gift.

you will find
that you can draw to her
That "Chut Hachesed"
with your own words
and kind deeds
towards her

For without prayer,
You single one
Will see a “stunning” Zeresh
Thinking she is Esther
That is the Hell
You will live with

And without prayer
And lacking some very honest soul searching,
You married one,
Will be in mourning all your life
Thinking that you married a Zeresh
Not even dawning on you
That it was Esther all along….
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Mar 2016 14:32 #281979

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This is why this is one of the few threads I keep myself subscribed to.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Mar 2016 12:02 #282481

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peloni almoni wrote:
The pasuk says: velo sasuru acharei levavchem ve’acharei einechem. Rashi brings from chazal: the eyes are scouts for the body. The eyes see, then the heart desires, and the rest of the body gets dragged into it as well. This raises an obvious question: the pasuk says einechem only after having said levavchem. If the chazal that Rashi brings is truly the torah sheba’al peh counterpart to this pasuk; if the lesson of this pasuk is, in fact, that first the eyes see and then the heart desires, why is the order switched?
There are many answers given. The following is very close to pashut peshat, and brings an important point home.
The cycle goes as follows: A person is walking, and something provocotive catches the corner of his eye. Curious, his urge is to take a second glance, to turn his head, lift his eyes, and look. Says the torah: velo sasuru acharei levavchem ve’acharei einechem. We cannot control what leaks into the corner of our eye, or what pops into our direct line of vision. Aunoos, rachamana patreih. The ikkar is not to follow our heart and take a second look. Do you know why? Because the eyes are the scouts for the body. The eye sees, and the heart wants, and leads the rest of the body to sin.
That is why the order is reversed. The pasuk is telling us the prohibition - do not follow your heart to take that second look. The corresponding chazal is warning us of what we know only too well - if you take that second look, the eyes will effect the heart, and pull the body into sin.
I think this is important for any male member of our species, especially us. It is something I am working on myself, as I have come to understand that it is truly the cornerstone to our struggle. Training our self not to take the second glace… and feeling good about it.

I love this original pshat, which I think applies to "non addicts"
Step one - The eyes see accidentally, no problem, nada!
Step 2 - will your heart run wild with it?

For those of us with an addicted mind, the passuk is actually simpler - checking your lust heart rate is Step one, since we don't need sights to turn us on in the first place (although living life doesn't mean constantly checking your lust rate, as dov has mentioned)
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Mar 2016 17:15 #282503

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markz wrote on 25 Mar 2016 12:02:

peloni almoni wrote:
The pasuk says: velo sasuru acharei levavchem ve’acharei einechem. Rashi brings from chazal: the eyes are scouts for the body. The eyes see, then the heart desires, and the rest of the body gets dragged into it as well. This raises an obvious question: the pasuk says einechem only after having said levavchem. If the chazal that Rashi brings is truly the torah sheba’al peh counterpart to this pasuk; if the lesson of this pasuk is, in fact, that first the eyes see and then the heart desires, why is the order switched?
There are many answers given. The following is very close to pashut peshat, and brings an important point home.
The cycle goes as follows: A person is walking, and something provocotive catches the corner of his eye. Curious, his urge is to take a second glance, to turn his head, lift his eyes, and look. Says the torah: velo sasuru acharei levavchem ve’acharei einechem. We cannot control what leaks into the corner of our eye, or what pops into our direct line of vision. Aunoos, rachamana patreih. The ikkar is not to follow our heart and take a second look. Do you know why? Because the eyes are the scouts for the body. The eye sees, and the heart wants, and leads the rest of the body to sin.
That is why the order is reversed. The pasuk is telling us the prohibition - do not follow your heart to take that second look. The corresponding chazal is warning us of what we know only too well - if you take that second look, the eyes will effect the heart, and pull the body into sin.
I think this is important for any male member of our species, especially us. It is something I am working on myself, as I have come to understand that it is truly the cornerstone to our struggle. Training our self not to take the second glace… and feeling good about it.

I love this original pshat, which I think applies to "non addicts"
Step one - The eyes see accidentally, no problem, nada!
Step 2 - will your heart run wild with it?

For those of us with an addicted mind, the passuk is actually simpler - checking your lust heart rate is Step one, since we don't need sights to turn us on in the first place (although living life doesn't mean constantly checking your lust rate, as dov has mentioned)

Now, you are an addict? See here and there (where you spell it out ever clearer) and here and there (which was a hilarious post) and over here as well (my apologies if the links do not work, I do not know how to use source code).
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
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GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Mar 2016 18:17 #282506

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Cordnoy

If someone is hilarious it's you!

btw you don't need to use source at all to put a link, just click the 6th editing tool in the 1st row

Where did I say I'm an addict?
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 25 Mar 2016 18:19 #282508

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SE FOR SA
Shmone Esrei for Sex Addicts


davidr wrote on 10 Oct 2013 09:13:
I am a sex addict and am in SA (Sexaholics Anonymous), a 12 step program for sex addiction.

Lately, I am davening Shemone Esre with a new approach, thinking new meanings and prayers into the words. To be clear, I do not change any words of the actual Shemoneh Esreh. I believe that it is very holy and that every word has hidden and deep meanings. But I also believe that it is important for every individual to assign meanings to the words we say that are relevant to our lives. As a sex addict working on the twelve steps, I have become aware of the tremendous love Hashem has for me, and how only Hashem's power can save my life.

Below you can find the shemone esre translated into English with my kavono in parentheses.

(Instruction:)
While praying, concentrate on the meaning of the words and remember that you are tremendously privileged to stand before the Divine Presence. And remember that God loves you and is so happy to see you turn to him! Before beginning the Amidah, take three steps back, then three steps forward. Recite the Amidah quietly -- but audibly to yourself -- while standing with feet together.

(God, I am powerless. I am powerless over lust, I am powerless over my life. I may feel unworthy to stand before you and to connect with you. But what I cannot do for myself, you can do for me. So please…)
My L-rd, open my lips, and my mouth shall declare Your praise.
Bend Knees at "Blessed"; bow at "You"; Straighten at "L-rd ourG‑d":
(Thank you for being here for me.. ) Blessed are You, L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers, G‑d of Abraham, G‑d of Isaac and G‑d of Jacob, the great, mighty and awesome G‑d, exalted G‑d, who bestows (not because I deserve it, but because you love me) bountiful kindness, who creates all things, who remembers the piety of the Patriarchs, and who, in love, brings a redeemer (from my addiction and their underlying causes) to their children's children, for the sake of His Name.
During the Ten Days of Penitence add:
Remember us for life, King who desires (true and addiction free) life; inscribe us in the Book of Life (without addiction, oh please God, keep me sober just for the day) , for Your sake, O living G‑d.
Bend Knees at "Blessed"; bow are "You"; Straighten at "L-rd our G‑d":
O King (my higher power who can and does keep me sober one day at a time) , (You are) a helper (when I’m triggered), a savior (when I’m about to act out) and a shield (protecting my eyes and heart). Blessed are You L-rd, Shield of Abraham.
(My addiction may be strong and old), but You are mighty forever, my L-rd; You resurrect the dead (and the dead feelings within me); You are powerful to save.
In summer say: (You have such gentle ways to make me grow) you make the dew to descend. In winter say: (But when necessary, you employ stronger methods to bring me close) You cause the wind to blow and the rain to fall.
(You) sustain the living with loving kindness (I therefore trust you and put myself in your care), (You) resurrect the dead with great mercy (you helped me find sobriety), (You) support the falling (you gently remind me to work on my recovery), (You) heal the (physically, mentally or spiritually) sick, (You) release the bound (you free me from the bounds of my addiction to experience joyful freedom), and (You) fulfill your trust to those who sleep in the dust (You care for me, think about me and trust me even when I am down and guide me back to you). Who is like You, mighty One (no power can take on my higher power)! And who can be compared to You, King, who brings death and restores life, and causes deliverance to grow (let my addiction be the seed for tremedous growth) !

During the Ten Days of Penitence add: Who is like You, merciful Father, who in compassion remembers His creatures for (a joyful and addiction free) life.

You are trustworthy to revive the dead (I’ve personally experienced the miracle of recovery). Blessed are You L-rd, who revives the dead (thank you God for every day of sanity).


When the Chazzan repeats Amidah, Kedushah is recited here.
We will hallow and adore You as the sweet words of the assembly of the holy Seraphim who thrice repeat "holy" unto You, as it is written by Your prophet: And they call one to another and Say, (Cong. and Chazzan:) "(I will turn my heart to God) Holy, (I will avert my eyes) holy, (I will help other recover) holy is the L-rd of hosts; (I will pray to you wherever and whenever I am triggered, because) the whole earth is full of His glory." (Chazzan:) Those facing them offer praise and say, (Cong and Chazzan:) "Blessed be the glory of the L-rd from its place." (Chazzan:) And in Your holy Scriptures it is written thus: (Cong. and Chazzan:) The L-rd shall reign forever; your G‑d, O Zion, throughout all generations. Praise the L-rd.
You are holy and Your Name is holy, and holy beings praise You daily for all eternity (and I humbly ask to be allowed to join them). Blessed are You L-rd, the holy G‑d. (During the Ten Days of Penitence substitute: the holy King.)
(My own “best thinking” got me into trouble, I need a new way of thinking) You graciously bestow sanity (to distinguish what is good for me and what is bad for me) upon man and teach mortals understanding. Graciously bestow upon us from You, insight (to know how to accept that which I cannot change), understanding (to know how to change my attitude) and sanity (to know the difference). Blessed are You L-rd, who graciously bestows sanity.
(You are my father and I am your child. But I lost my way, and cannot find my way back to you without your help because I am powerless. And I cannot do it alone, I need others on this journey with me. So please ..) Cause us to return, our Father, to Your Torah (show us how); draw us near, our King, to Your service (give us the courage); and bring us back to You in whole-hearted repentance (I really need to feel your love right now!). Blessed are You L-rd, who (not only accepts, but) desires penitence.
(Deep in my heart I am always yearning to be loved and accepted and understood and connected and whole. I am really looking for you, because connecting with you is the only real Connection I can have. When I act out, I feel so far away from you. And after I act out, I feel that it’s so hard to come back to you because I turned away from you, sometimes even deliberately. But I know you have not given up on me and I will not give up on my connection with you either. Pardon us, our Father, because we have sinned (only you really know and understand that I was really looking for you all along); forgive us, our King, because we have transgressed; for You are a good and forgiving G‑d. (You are infinite and your ability to forgive is infinite. Yes, I know I have asked you to forgive me before, but unlike me, you never lose your patience. So I am back again. Help me stay with you just for today) Blessed are You L-rd, gracious One who pardons abundantly.
O behold our poverty (I am completly powerless over lust) and (so I ask you to) wage our battle (This is not just my battle, it’s also yours. You desire my return just as much as I desire to be whole with you. But I can’t win this battle, and you can. It’s all yours. I will let go and let God); redeem us speedily (I am asking just for one day at a time, but please make it today) for the sake of Your Name (so that the miracles you do for us will encourage others to seek you), for You G‑d are the mighty redeemer. Blessed are You L-rd, Redeemer of Israel.
(I am completely powerless over lust ant it’s causing me and the people around me so much pain and suffering. You are the only one who can help me and so I turn to you, praying not just for myself but also for my friends and for all those who are still suffering.) Heal us, O L-rd, and we will be healed (no other healing will truly heal my spiritual illness, my strong yearning to connect with you); help us and we will be helped (I recognize that I will not recover all at once, so I beg you to help me stay on the path of recovery); for You are our praise. Grant complete cure and healing to all our wounds (especially those I inflicted on others as a result of my malady. Help me fix what I broke and heal me of the underlying resentments, fears and insecurities that caused me to hurt others); for You, Almighty King, are a faithful and merciful healer (I trust you to help me make amends in the least painful way possible). Blessed are You L-rd, who heals the sick of His people Israel.
Bless for us, L-rd our G‑d, this year (help us stay in recovery thru all the changing seasons) and all the varieties of its produce for good (may my recovery be a blessing to all the different people I come in contact with); and bestow (During the summer season say:) blessing (During the winter season say: dew and rain for blessing) upon the face of the earth. Satisfy us from Your bounty and bless our year like other good years (I know merited to experience what sanity feels like and I want more of it!), for blessing; for You are a generous G‑d who bestows goodness and blesses the years. Blessed are You L-rd, who blesses the years.
Sound the great shofar for our freedom (I can’t wait to experience the ultimate freedom and closeness with You with our final redemption); raise a banner to gather our exiles, and bring us together from the four corners of the earth into our land (help me unite all the conflicting parts of my soul and bring them home). Blessed are You L-rd, who gathers the dispersed of His people Israel.
Restore our judges as in former times (restore my sanity and my judgement) , and our counsellors as of yore; remove from us sorrow and sighing, and reign over us, You alone, O L-rd, (please don’t let my addiction rule me anymore) with kindness and compassion, with righteousness and justice. Blessed are You L-rd, King who loves righteousness and justice. (During the Ten Days of Penitencesubstitute with: the King of judgment.)
Let there be no hope for informers, and may all the heretics and all the wicked instantly perish; may all the enemies of Your people be speedily extirpated; and may You swiftly uproot, break, crush and subdue the reign of wickedness (within me that is ruining my life) speedily in our days. Blessed are You L-rd, who crushes enemies and subdues the wicked.
May Your mercies be aroused, L-rd our G‑d, upon the righteous, upon the pious, upon the elders of Your people, the House of Israel, upon the remnant of their sages, upon the righteous proselytes and upon us. Grant ample reward to all who truly trust in Your Name, and place our lot among them (let me learn from others how to trust you again, I want to place my life in your care); may we never be disgraced (I don’t want to go back the day when I could not face myself), for we have put our trust in You. Blessed are You L-rd, the support and security of the righteous.
Return in mercy to Yerusholayim (the city of Yerusholayim is at the center of the world and the name is composed of the words Yirah Sholem, may I be whole again and feel your presence in the center of my being),Your city and dwell therein as You have promised; speedily establish therein the throne of David Your servant, and rebuild it, soon in our days, as an everlasting edifice. Blessed are You L-rd, who rebuilds Jerusalem.
Speedily cause the scion of David Your servant to flourish, and increase his power by Your salvation, for we hope for Your salvation all day (I need your help throughout the day, because I am completely powerless). Blessed are You L-rd, who causes the power of salvation to flourish.
Hear our voice, L-rd our G‑d; merciful Father (have mercy on me and all those I harmed) (Note: Pray in your mind for yourself, your family members and anyone you may have harmed or who you have resentments against), have compassion upon us and accept our prayers in mercy and favor (don’t let me die a spritual death, let me live to pray to you on this and every day), for You are G‑d who hears prayers and supplications; do not turn us away empty-handed from You, our King, (and I pray to you without shame) for You hear the prayer of everyone. Blessed are You L-rd, who hears prayer.
Look with favor, L-rd our G‑d, on Your people Israel and pay heed to their prayer; restore the service to Your Sanctuary and accept with love and favor Israel's fire-offerings (when I surrender my burning lust to you) and prayer; and may the service of Your people Israel always find favor.


On Rosh Chodesh and Chol HaMoed, (Our G‑d. . . may there ascend) is recited here.
Our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers, may there ascend, come and reach, be seen, accepted, and heard, recalled and remembered before You, the remembrance and recollection of us, the remembrance of our fathers, the remembrance of Mashiach the son of David Your servant, the remembrance of Jerusalem Your holy city, and the remembrance of all Your people the House of Israel, for deliverance, well-being, grace, kindness, mercy, good life and peace, on this day of
On Rosh Chodesh: Rosh Chodesh
On the holiday of Passover: the Festival of Matzot
On the holiday of Sukkot: the Festival of Sukkot.
Remember us on this [day], L-rd our G‑d, for good; be mindful of us on this [day] for blessing; help us on this [day] for good life. With the promise of deliverance and Compassion, spare us and be gracious to us; have mercy upon us and deliver us; for our eyes are directed to You, for You, G‑d, are a gracious and merciful King.

May our eyes behold Your return to Zion in mercy. Blessed are You L-rd, who restores His Divine Presence to Zion (thank you for being in my life again, one day at a time).
We thankfully acknowledge that You are the L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers forever (Thank you for always being there for me, even if everyone else abandoned me). You are the strength of our life, the shield of our salvation in every generation. We will give thanks to You and recount Your praise, evening, morning and noon, for our lives which are committed into Your hand, for our souls which are entrusted to You, for Your miracles which are with us daily (thank you for the daily miracle of my sobriety and grant me one more day), and for Your continual wonders and beneficences (thank you for all the little ways you show me your love and caring throughout the day). You are the Beneficent One, for Your mercies never cease; the Merciful One, for Your kindnesses never end; for we always place our hope in You.

On Chanukah and Purim, the following is added.
And [we thank You] for the miracles, for the redemption, for the mighty deeds, for the saving acts, and for the wonders which You have wrought for our ancestors in those days, at this time ---
On Chanukah continue here:

In the days of Matityahu, the son of Yochanan the High Priest, the Hasmonean and his sons, when the wicked Hellenic government rose up against Your people Israel to make them forget Your Torah and violate the decrees of Your will. But You, in Your abounding mercies, stood by them in the time of their distress. You waged their battles, defended their rights and avenged the wrong done to them. You delivered the mighty into the hands of the weak, the many into the hands of the few, the impure into the hands of the pure, the wicked into the hands of the righteous, and the wanton sinners into the hands of those who occupy themselves with Your Torah. You made a great and holy name for Yourself in Your world, and effected a great deliverance and redemption for Your people to this very day. Then Your children entered the shrine of Your House, cleansed Your Temple, purified Your Sanctuary, kindled lights in Your holy courtyards, and instituted these eight days of Chanukah to give thanks and praise to Your great Name.
On Purim continue here:
In the days of Mordechai and Esther, in Shushan the capital, when the wicked Haman rose up against them, and sought to destroy, slaughter and annihilate all the Jews, young and old, infants and women, in one day, on the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, the month ofAdar, and to take their spoil for plunder. But You, in Your abounding mercies, foiled his counsel and frustrated his intention, and caused the evil he planned --- to recoil on his own head, and they hanged him and his sons upon the gallows.


And for all these, may Your Name, our King, be continually blessed, exalted and extolled forever and all time.


During the Ten Days of Penitence add:
Inscribe all the children of Your Covenant for a good life.
And all living things shall forever thank You, and praise Your great Name eternally, for You are good. G‑d, You are our everlasting salvation and help, O benevolent G‑d. Blessed are You L-rd, Beneficent is Your Name, and to You it is fitting to offer thanks.

Bestow (inner and outer) peace, goodness and blessing, life, graciousness, kindness (may I be kind to others always) and mercy (may I feel compassion and not be judgemental towards others), upon us and upon all Your people Israel. Bless us, our Father, all of us as one, with the light of Your countenance. For by the light of Your countenance You gave us, L-rd our G‑d, the Torah of life and loving-kindness, righteousness, blessing, mercy, life and peace. May it be favorable in Your eyes to bless Your people Israel, at all times and at every moment, with Your peace (teach me how to make peace with myself, the people around me and with you in every difficult situation throughout my day).
During the Ten Days of Penitence add: And in the Book of life, blessing, peace and prosperity, deliverance, consolation and favorable decrees, may we and all Your people the House of Israel be remembered and inscribed before You for a happy life and for peace.
Blessed are You L-rd, who blesses His people Israel with peace.
May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable before You (replace my lustful thoughts with thoughts that are pleasing to you), L-rd, my Strength and my Redeemer.
(I cannot change what other people think or say of me, help me learn to accept wha tI cannot change. And may I not be tempted to harm other people in any way. So .. ) My G‑d, guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking deceitfully. Let my soul be silent to those who curse me ; let my soul be like earth to all (may I be as accepting as the earth which never fights back. May I never cause harm like the earth which doesn’t burn, corrode or destroy. May I be a blessing to all like the earth which takes small seeds and returns a great bounty). Open my heart to Your Torah, and let my soul eagerly pursue Your commandments. As for all those who plot evil against me, hasten to annul their counsel and frustrate their design. Let them be as chaff before the wind; let the angel of the L-rd thrust them away. That Your beloved ones may be delivered, help with Your right hand (the hand hand of love and generosity) and answer me. Do it for the sake of Your Name (let my recovery bear witness to your care and power) ; do it for the sake of Your right hand; do it for the sake of Your Torah; do it for the sake of Your holiness (let me be holy, because your holy spark is inside my holy soul). May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable before You, L-rd, my Strength and my Redeemer.
(Let me remember to always be humble before you.)
Before reciting the following verse one should bow, and in this bowed position, take three steps backward. While still bowing, he should turn his head to his left saying, "He who makes peace in His heavens"; bow forward, saying, "may He"; turn his head to his right, saying, "make peace for us"; and finally bow forward, saying, "and for all Israel; and say, Amen".
He who makes peace (During the Ten Days of Penitence say: the peace) in His heavens, may He make peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen.
May it be Your will, L-rd our G‑d and G‑d of our fathers, that the Bet Hamikdash be speedily rebuilt in our days, and grant us our portion in Your Torah.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Mar 2016 23:16 #282926

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This covenant eyes article was partially quoted in a recent gye email, and I wanted to share it here with you - with slight edits

Cure For Porn Addiction:  Move to Iceland?
לא מעבר לים היא לאמר מי יעלה לנו אל עבר הים...
כי קרוב אליך הדבר מאד
 
Perhaps you’ve heard the news. Iceland is gearing up to ban Internet pornography. It won’t only be a crime, it would be straight-up impossible to look at porn with government filters in place. Soon, your first step to freedom could be to move to Iceland. I’ve priced tickets.  Your flight will be less than $1000.Here’s the question, though: does banning something actually help?

Answer: no.

​Rewriting Gan Eden

Now, Iceland is considering this ban for entirely humanitarian reasons. They want to ban pornography because of the negative effects on women and children. Addicts who struggle, though, could find a ban appealing for entirely different reasons. It would be nice to be in a “temptation-free” zone. It would be nice to not have to worry about having accountability partners or that humble prayer, “God, it’s me again…sorry.”

Unfortunately, too many of us attribute our struggles to external causes. We blame our struggles on the overuse of sex in advertising, the immodesty of people at the store, or the latest blockbuster replete with sex scenes. If everyone else in the world got with the purity program, we would be fine.

How many times have you tried to rewrite Gan Eden?  I know there have been times when I have said, “God, if I were You, I would have surrounded that tree of wisdom with a barbed wire fence and zapped that snake.”
Why would God put temptation smack in the middle of the Garden and make it “pleasing to the eyes” and desirable? At the very least He could have created a fruit that was ugly, difficult to chew, and stunk. If He had done that, then Adam and Eve wouldn’t have had this problem, and then we wouldn’t have this problem.
We do the same thing now. “God, if I were You, I would have given me a switch or something. Why would you put me smack in the middle of temptation and make it so beautiful? Why couldn’t all the Uplifting religious movies be well-made and the romantic ones be cheesy?”

We are the problem

We want this life of freedom to be easy. We get frustrated with God when it is hard: if it wasn’t so available; if society didn’t accept it so freely; if it wasn’t so mainstream; if God would intervene and just wipe out the Internet and set us back a couple millennia…then I would be fine.Here’s the problem: Temptation is not the problem. For that matter, pornography is not the problem.

Ban it all you would like. Restrict all access. But don’t forget that sexual immorality was present in the Midbar, and they didn’t have Internet.

Is pornography a problem in society? Yes. Does pornography have damaging effects on individuals, women, children, and men alike? Yes. But pornography is not the problem—we are the problem

As long as we try to externalize our struggle and blame it on everything else under the sun, we will never find true freedom. Filters, bans, and accountability all have their place.  Like crutches to a broken leg, they support and make the process to healing much better, but they do not fix the leg.Likewise for us, our struggles stem from our own fallen nature. Does society have an influence in our struggle? Certainly.

Does the ease of access of pornography make our struggle more difficult? Yes. Can bans and filters ease that difficulty? Certainly. But they do nothing to fix our problem.Our problem can only be fixed by the mercy and kindness of the true Gd . That power can only act when we acknowledge that we actually need it. It is in our nature to blame and to try and strong-will our way out of things. At the end of the day, though, our willpower can never get us freedom. In fact, our strong will usually ends up getting us in more trouble.

So, before you make plans to pack your bags and head to Iceland, do something else first: Acknowledge your responsibility in this struggle. Regardless of the temptations of the world around you, you are misusing the desires Hashem granted you. All the bans in the world won’t bring the healing you need. Only He can do that, but only if you get out of the way and let HiM
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Last Edit: 29 Mar 2016 23:24 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Apr 2016 02:57 #283153

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Here's my first music post and not the last iyH

BEHS just completed the introduction to Mesillas Yesharim

You may enjoy the tune for
יסוד החסידות ושורש העבודה התמימה הוא - שיתברר ויתאמת אצל האדם מה חובתו בעולמו וּלְמַה צריך שישים מבטו ומגמתו בכל אשר הוא עמל כל ימי חייו. 

Copy this link into your browser
http://zeevhatorah.org/index.php/more/extras/regesh-music
Pause the first song that automatically starts

Search (Ctrl+F) for "04 Yesod Hachasidus", and click the green button to play

It's a matter of taste - Let me know if you enjoy it
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Last Edit: 01 Apr 2016 03:05 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Apr 2016 15:44 #283204

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Reb Yid wrote on 04 Apr 2011 02:23:
Parshas Shemini

In this week's Parsha we learn about the animals, fish, insects, and birds that we may not eat. The Torah describes them as "Toeiva" - an abomination. We are taught that by eating these things we are destroying our Neshamos, and the damage is very great. Why is it that these things are so dangerous, and if it is, why do they only affect us, and not people from other nationalities?

The answer is simple. Just as a child would not be able to eat certain foods that are difficult for their sensitive stomachs to digest, while that same food is ok and maybe even beneficial for an adult who's stomach can handle more, so too by a Yid versus a Goy. The Kedusha of a Yid is so great that these types of abominable foods can throw the system out of whack. But by a Goy, being that his level is significantly lower, he will not be affected at all by their consumption.

Here on GYE, there are many things that we may not be able to do, while other non-addicts, may not have a hard time with them. As a married man, there are some things that are halachically permissible for me with regard to my wife, which I refrain from doing because of the sensitivity of my situation. As Bochurim, there may be a job or a store that is Be'Etzem not bad, and maybe even a good place to be, but because of your sensitivities, it's advisable to stay away.

In short, everything is relative. Just as one food may affect one person more than another, so too certain actions may be more dangerous for one over another. As responsible people, it would be wise for us to pay attention to our specific tendencies, and cater a program of avoidance specially for us.

Hatzlocha!!


Eslaasos sent me a really nice elaboration on this today as follows, and I quote;

It matches what my therapist has said - you have to know where you need to draw your red lines that are specific to you.I find it sometimes stressful because I am often second-guessing myself, and don't like making decisions (I used to think I was indecisive but I'm no longer sure), and this is a decision that no-one can make for you, but that doesn't make it less true. I recently picked up the book "What the angel taught you" from R' Noach Weinberg and l'havdil Yaakov Salomon, and in the intro he says that one of the advantages of having learnt the whole Torah in utero is that when you come across the truth you will recognize it.The Nesivas Sholom says something similar; that the neshomo really knows what's right. I may be misquoting it as my memory is fuzzy. It's a slippery slope to rely on "gut" or "intuition". The YH and our own bad choices create interference that prevents us from seeing the truth, but intense focus on learning acts as a cleansing agent (see Nefesh Hachaim Shaar 1). Being indecisive is the surest way to get nothing done, so tachlis - I think (only because the YH still ahs enohg of a hold on me that I can't be more definite) that my main battleground right now is:  sur mera - avoiding all secular novels and movies/TV shows  asei tov - keeping a positive attitude, and sticking to sedarim.
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Apr 2016 04:42 #283310

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 03 Apr 2016 04:35:
I'd like to nominate "truckingness" as Word Of The Year. 


Very deep

My Trucking is totally a Ness!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 11 Apr 2016 05:50 #284272

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markz wrote on 10 Jan 2016 02:00:
selfishness feeds lust which feeds selfishness... ... - an endless circle

Which is why the common שורש of גאוה and תאוה is אוה
They are intertwined one another
Rabbi A Schorr שליטא


This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

You can start from minute 11, and if you like gematria there are some pearls to be found

Thanks to Torahanytime
Forgive me for lowering the sound quality to be able to upload

 

במחילת כבוד תורתך הרמה, he didn't mean the grammatical שרש, he meant the "root" of תאוה and גאוה is the same i.e. self-centeredness.

(לעניות דעתי נראה ששורש גאוה הוא ג-א-ה ושורש תאוה הוא א-ו-ה)

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 12 Apr 2016 22:55 #284423

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Anonymous - To be or not to be

The power of Anonymity, and Non-Anon

bardichev wrote on 24 Sep 2009 14:09:
Reb Levi Yitzchak and Chametz

One year, shortly before the first Pesach Seder, the holy Rebbe, Reb Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev, took several of his

students into town. He knocked on the door of a local store and asked to buy cigarettes. The storekeeper replied, "I

don't have any. Don't you know that they are illegal?" Reb Levi Yitzchak was persistent and again asked to buy

cigarettes. After several requests, the storekeeper produced the cigarettes and was willing to sell them.

Reb Levi Yitzchak then approached a man walking down the street and asked if he had a cigarette. "Don't you know

that they are illegal? I can get thrown in jail for possession!" Again, after several requests, the gentleman displayed his

stash and offered one to the Berditchever.



Reb Levi Yitzchak then sent his attendant to a Jewish home to ask if they had a small piece of bread. "G-d forbid!" was

the reply, and not knowing why the attendant was asking, continued to explain, "On Pesach we are forbidden to have

any bread or chametz in our home." The attendant went to a second home and a third home, and the reply was the

same.


When the attendant returned empty-handed to his Rebbe, Reb Levi Yitzchak held his hands up high and

exclaimed, "Master of the Universe! The Czar forbids the importation of these cigarettes. He has soldiers and policemen to

help enforce this law. But yet these cigarettes are on the streets and available to all, somehow smuggled across the

border.

"Three thousand years ago, You commanded Your children not to bring bread into their homes on Pesach. You have no

soldiers or policemen
, yet there is no bread to be found in all of Berditchev.

See how powerfully Your children love You!!"


Rabbi Abraham Twersky explains that the human spirit has the control to be in power without relying on animal instincts. An animal can only be restrained by the force of danger. He gives an example; A sexaholic that refrains from illicit relations for fear of disease, is no different than an animal that runs to save its hide

There's no shame factor in an anonymous name at all! No one knows you!!
The only thing that gives an anonymous member staying power is the radiance of the human soul. There are no police or soldiers around. This was Bardichevs Bardichever thought

As a side note; I have left that group, for better waters, and for great friends - hey I hope to meet some too!!!!
In my wildest dreams, I never would have seen myself doing this 6 months ago when I joined Gye

TRUCKING REVERSE... VROOMMMMM!!

The reverse is also true

One that needs to come out of anonymity, for the sake of sobriety, and does so - disregarding the embarrassment, is one that allowed the human spirit to override, and is following in the "Steps" of Barditchev

So I wish all you guys the best trucking experience!!!!!!!!!

Mark
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 18 Apr 2016 11:53 #284975

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chacham atik wrote:
ive been wondering since i started gye why everything has to be associated with gd and Judaism.
i know this is a jewish website and we are basically all jewish and its all about the fight with yetzer horah...
why cant we look at the fight a health thing or a regular rehab why does gd have to mixed in?

ps:nothing against gd at all im frum yeshuva bocher learning hard shomer torah and mitzvot 
just wondering why this website is so cheesy? 


That's how we deal with fleishige I's
Something I wrote:
IMHO in low level addiction to Porn and Mast like myself, if we take Gd out of the equation I'd never have looked to change my life, which is why there's more religious guys here than elsewhere

Acc to my little research the non jewish / irreligious world, Masturbation isn't condoned at all

A religious life with Hashem has granted me a better physical life, but I only came here bc of Hashem

 
doingtshuva wrote:
The twelve steps wasn't set up by a Jew, but still many goiem + yiden around the world are benefiting from the 12 steps. In the 12 steps, and for those who are working  the steps, use sentences or phrases of one giving your-self over to god or to an higher power.


My personal recovery is partially a product of Torah based ideas, eg. restrictions, which the Rabbis of our days have recommended

More importantly, Rabbi Abraham Twerski, an addiction specialist, constantly advises keeping spirituality in ones daily life for recovery, as does cordnoy and others, although they use many other important sobriety tools

Guys Just
KOT
 
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Last Edit: 18 Apr 2016 12:05 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Apr 2016 19:32 #285484

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Palestinian Thoughts

From 2 of this week's emails

Covering everything with foil?!
Obviously, we understand that instead of covering the entire world before Pesach, we simply guard our mouths carefully from eating Chametz!

The same goes for issues of lust.

We live in a world that is full of promiscuity.  Muslim extremists take the zealous approach of having their women covered from head to toe and never appearing in public. They also insist on "world domination" so they can "fix" the rest of the world as well. But as Jews, we recognize that the best approach of all is simply to GUARD YOUR OWN EYES :-) And when we fix ourselves, we are fixing the world as well.

What indeed is mesiras nefesh?

Many people think it means throwing oneself into a fire ‘al Kiddush G-d’. This is true as well, but there is a common misunderstanding regarding this concept. After all, there are many terrorists who are willing to detonate suicide belts and kill themselves for “Allah”. What differentiates them from a Jew who is ready to die for G-d?

The answer is simple, yet profound. Messiras Nefesh has nothing to do with what you are willing to sacrifice, even if it is your very life. As long as you are sacrificing it ultimately for your own self, it is a selfish act.

When a terrorist blows himself up, he believes that he will go straight to Heaven and be given 72 virgins. He is actually doing the most selfish act possible - that of killing other human beings for what he imagines is his own personal ticket to eternal bliss. This is the very opposite of Mesiras Nefesh!

The words Messiras Nefesh mean ”Giving over of the soul” and this does not require death or pain to be real. It can be achieved even during the highest levels of Simcha (joy). It is simply the desire deep in the Jewish soul to give everything away to G-d, to let completely go of the self, as Dovid Hamelech said “to you G-d, I lift up my soul”



.

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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 15:05 #285590

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skeptical wrote on 25 Mar 2013 07:11:
Chametz and Matzah are very similar words. Chametz (spelled Ches, Mem, Tzadik) and Matzah (spelled Mem, Tzadik, Hey) have a difference of one letter - a Ches and a Hey. Dough when it rises too much becomes chametz. If you look at the difference between a Hey and Ches, a Ches is a Hey in which the line "grew too much" and reaches the top. Meaning that when we let our egos, our sense of self, rise - when we let our own selfish desires rule us instead of doing what Hashem wants of us, we have an issue of chametz. Someone recently told me that ego stands for Easing G-d Out.

Tonight as we have searched for the chametz in our homes, let us also search for the chametz inside of us.
Tomorrow as we burn the chametz that we have found, let us also burn the chametz that we have found inside of us until it is an unrecognizable mass of ash.
As we celebrate Pesach this year, let us each be liberated from our own sense of Mitzrayim, the things that are holding us back from fully doing Hashem's will.

As we were brought out of Golus Mitzrayim all those years ago, may we be brought out of this golus, this olam hasheker, so that the essence of our neshamas may shine and we can serve Hashem without any hinderance


Skep, If I may add, the difference between the ה and the ח, is the small opening to "let go and let Gd" in
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 15:37 #285592

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There's actually something along those lines in the Gemara, I can't remember the source. That you can fall out the bottom into Gehinnom but you can also climb back in through the side.
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 15:45 #285594

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Menachos 29b, but do you not think that's a little too serious for this thread?
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Last Edit: 22 Apr 2016 00:15 by Markz. Reason: For Gevura Ⓜ️

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 15:47 #285595

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markz wrote on 21 Apr 2016 15:45:
Menachos 29b, but do you not think that's a little too serious for this thread?

brought in rashi to parashas beraishis 
אלה תלדות השמים והארץ בהבראם
Have a corny day ... and if you do have other plans, change 'em!!
peloni_almoni@hotmail.com

None of us has it all together, but together, we have it all.

we always put our sobriety before our ego -
מוטב שאקרא שוטה כל ימי ואל אהיה רשע שעה אחת לפני המקום

לפעולות אדם בדבר שפתיך אני שמרתי אורחות פריץ. תמוך אשורי במעגלותיך בל נמוטו פעמי. תהלים יז
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 16:03 #285598

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Thats the one I meant, thanks.

BTW Mark, what's that M in a circle I see on some of your posts? It looks like a Halal logo. Are You Tachas Hashgachas HaImam HaMufti Abbas?
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 16:11 #285601

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 21 Apr 2016 16:03:

BTW Mark, what's that M in a circle I see on some of your posts? It looks like a Halal logo. Are You Tachas Hashgachas HaImam HaMufti Abbas?

No, not the Mufti.  Mark'z posts are certified by the PA.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Apr 2016 22:38 #285643

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Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 21 Apr 2016 15:37:
There's actually something along those lines in the Gemara, I can't remember the source. That you can fall out the bottom into Gehinnom but you can also climb back in through the side.

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/15-The-Torah-amp-Chizuk-Approach/239576-Re-Chazak-Chazak-Venischazek%21%21#239576

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Apr 2016 18:38 #286114

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I heard a fascinating idea b'shem the Noam Megadim. If anyone can provide the source so I can see the original, I would really appreciate it.
If a temptation entices you, and you overcome it, it is not vanquished; it will come back and tempt you again. This I had heard many times before. The chiddush I now heard is that after overcoming it 5 times, it will keep coming back but when you overcome it again, it will be converted into a cheshek for kedusha.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 01:44 #287052

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Dov wrote on 14 Sep 2011 23:00:
Who says that shmiras eynayim is the key? Ok, it's necessary, yeah, and it is one of the only ways to actually walk the walk and not just talk the talk....and there are many ways to do that, as well.

But to me it seems poshut that the problem is lusting, not shmiras eynayim.

I know what it is like to go nuts over a perfect-looking woman that walks by. I know what seeing porn does to me and how it makes my entire mind change into a sick one, where porn and sex seem truly to be in my very best, bets interest - and Hashem seems awfully crazy to suggest (demand) otherwise.

I know all that from the inside, like you.

And yet it still boils down to lust. If I am wanting it, wishing for it, and often ready to fantasize over it, then I am going to flop practically whenever I see a triggering thing, as you describe. If I am still lusting, then I do not truly believe that orgasm (and sex) is optional. I believe I deserve it, that it is natural, and that I must do it. That it is ultimately my right, as a man with hormones and the right body parts.

If there is not a backdrop of readiness produced by lust, then what else praytell is the answer to your riddle?

So shmiras einayim is a great tool - to help us live without lusting. We are dry drunks if we are still lusting. And what you describe sounds to me just like that. Lust and fantasy alive and well, behind a scenery filled with shmiras einayim and sincerely good, decent behavior. In the end, it will not work.

The tachlis of my shiras einayim needs to be only to help me live real life today and that means free of the tyranny of lust today, and not chas veshilom as an end in and of itself: "I am shomer my eyes!" Big deal. Between the lines:"But I still see many women as sweet (witheld) sex candy; that their greatest value is in being 'hot';  that their body parts are above all, pleasure sources; and the temptations are crawling all over me, nebach." No. This is not going to work, and will not allow simcha even when it does work for a while. Many here and elsewhere seem to feel like "guarding your eyes" is what it is all about. Gevalt, gevalt. Lo sereid b'ni imochem.
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Last Edit: 29 Aug 2016 23:18 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 04:43 #287099

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Mark, thanks for the quote.

I had a similar thought last week, when I was experimenting with shmiras eynayim when shopping. I came to the conclusion that shmiras eynayim does not take place in your eyes. The eyes are not that easily controlled; if they are pointed at an object, they will robotically relay the visual to your brain. The real shmiras eynayim seems to take place in your mind, where you choose what to focus on, although I need to think about it (or practice it) some more to understand it better.

Do you think we should change the name from GYE to GYM?
 
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 04:56 #287102

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עיין רש"י סוף פרשת שלח פרק טו פסוק לט ד"ה  ולא תתורו
והקושיא מובן מאיליו שבפסוק כתוב "לב" קודם ל"עין" אבל בסדר הדברים העין רואה ורק אז הלב חומד
ועיין ספר תפארת שמשון שפירש כעין יסוד הנ"ל - שבא ללמד שגם ראיית העין תלוי בלב 
Have a corny day ... and if you do have other plans, change 'em!!
peloni_almoni@hotmail.com

None of us has it all together, but together, we have it all.

we always put our sobriety before our ego -
מוטב שאקרא שוטה כל ימי ואל אהיה רשע שעה אחת לפני המקום

לפעולות אדם בדבר שפתיך אני שמרתי אורחות פריץ. תמוך אשורי במעגלותיך בל נמוטו פעמי. תהלים יז
__________________________________________________________
LINKS:
- SOLUTIONS: WHERE DO I FIT IN TO GYE
- DOWNLOAD GYE HANDBOOK & READ AT LEAST TWICE
- OVERDOSE OF DOV: READING MATERIAL TO KEEP ME SANE
- THE BEST THREAD ON THE FORUM; READ, POST, AND HAVE A GREAT TIME
 

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 05:01 #287103

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peloni almoni wrote on 08 May 2016 04:56:
עיין רש"י סוף פרשת שלח פרק טו פסוק לט ד"ה  ולא תתורו
והקושיא מובן מאיליו שבפסוק כתוב "לב" קודם ל"עין" אבל בסדר הדברים העין רואה ורק אז הלב חומד
ועיין ספר תפארת שמשון שפירש כעין יסוד הנ"ל - שבא ללמד שגם ראיית העין תלוי בלב 

ובמקום אחר
כתבתי טעם אחר לזה
Have a corny day ... and if you do have other plans, change 'em!!
peloni_almoni@hotmail.com

None of us has it all together, but together, we have it all.

we always put our sobriety before our ego -
מוטב שאקרא שוטה כל ימי ואל אהיה רשע שעה אחת לפני המקום

לפעולות אדם בדבר שפתיך אני שמרתי אורחות פריץ. תמוך אשורי במעגלותיך בל נמוטו פעמי. תהלים יז
__________________________________________________________
LINKS:
- SOLUTIONS: WHERE DO I FIT IN TO GYE
- DOWNLOAD GYE HANDBOOK & READ AT LEAST TWICE
- OVERDOSE OF DOV: READING MATERIAL TO KEEP ME SANE
- THE BEST THREAD ON THE FORUM; READ, POST, AND HAVE A GREAT TIME
 
Last Edit: 08 May 2016 05:02 by peloni almoni.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 05:15 #287105

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It's not only במקום אחר
Its on this thread

I found this other post for me to be the most conclusive
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 06:20 #287110

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A moment for theoretical Torah..

I heard a medresh once (either the medresh actually says this or this was the p'shat I heard, not sure which) about how Avraham had reached a level where he had complete control over his eyes and ears - the senses that are beyond our control, because we see whatever is in view and hear whatever is within earshot, whether we want to or not.  Meaning that he was able to "not see (or hear)" things that were in front of him if they were inappropriate for him.  I found this fascinating 

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 08 May 2016 14:30 #287138

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To fight or Not to fight - That is the question:

Some captive women were redeemed and brought to Neharda'a. They were kept in the attic of Rav Amram the Chasid; the ladder was removed.

A beam of light reflected from one of the women. Rav Amram was seized with lust. He moved the ladder to ascend (normally, 10 people are needed to move it). As he was halfway up, he screamed 'there is a fire in Rav Amram's house!' (Kiddushin 81)

Rav Amram intended to teach his students with this, that debates and confrontation against the YH are not recommended in times of need, rather other tools should be used (Rada'l), e.g. calling a fellow GYE or Group call

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
*******************************************

Parshas Achrei - GYE Wrote:

Dear MosheF,

Please read the Ohr Hachayim Hakadosh on this page. It sure sounds to me like he's talking about lust addiction! He directly addresses the complete powerlessness that a person who is caught up in lust will experience. He suggests that the only way to succeed in this area is by completely avoiding visual and mental stimulation. (If the Ohr Hachayim had lived today where this solution is close to impossible - and where the entire world's sewage is available with the click of a mouse, who knows - he may have come up with a 12-Step program! :-).

But listen to this: The Ohr Hachayim also touches upon the core of the 12-Steps in this very piece. He writes that for those who are already caught up in lust (read: addicts) they cannot do it on their own, and that ONLY Hashem can ultimately save them from this powerful Yetzer Hara.

TRANSLATION IS INCLUDED HERE

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!



Rabbi Avraham J. Twerski wrote: If one can, it is a segula to read this section at the kever and ask that in his zechus Hashem should help
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Last Edit: 08 May 2016 14:32 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 16 May 2016 16:37 #287975

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The Ohr Hachaim Hakodosh on the posuk of Kedoshim Tihyu writes that the nature of lust (for every joe shmoe, not just an addict) is that it is impossible to fight. The only possibility (and achrayos) you have is to prevent it from entering your mind in the first place.

בחינת תאוה הקבועה בטבע אינושי והיא תאוה השולטת על הרצון...אין יכולת באדם לשלוט עלי'ה אלא בגדר הריחוק בבחינת החושב
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 May 2016 15:09 #289331

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thanks613 wrote on 08 May 2016 06:20:
A moment for theoretical Torah..

I heard a medresh once (either the medresh actually says this or this was the p'shat I heard, not sure which) about how Avraham had reached a level where he had complete control over his eyes and ears - the senses that are beyond our control, because we see whatever is in view and hear whatever is within earshot, whether we want to or not.  Meaning that he was able to "not see (or hear)" things that were in front of him if they were inappropriate for him.  I found this fascinating 

Isn't that what Rashi says in Parshas Lech Lecha on the words V'agadla shemecha?

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 31 May 2016 15:55 #289334

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eslaasos wrote on 28 Apr 2016 18:38:
I heard a fascinating idea b'shem the Noam Megadim. If anyone can provide the source so I can see the original, I would really appreciate it.
If a temptation entices you, and you overcome it, it is not vanquished; it will come back and tempt you again. This I had heard many times before. The chiddush I now heard is that after overcoming it 5 times, it will keep coming back but when you overcome it again, it will be converted into a cheshek for kedusha.

Gemara Meseches Sukkah:

Yitzro shel adam misgabar alav b'chol yom......
......V'Hashem yeshalmenu lach.
Rashi explains: Sheyehei shaleim yitzrach imach, v'lo yaasiacha lachto vl'aavod min haolam.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jun 2016 03:51 #289394

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A moment for theoretical Torah..



I heard a medresh once (either the medresh actually says this or this was the p'shat I heard, not sure which) about how Avraham had reached a level where he had complete control over his eyes and ears - the senses that are beyond our control, because we see whatever is in view and hear whatever is within earshot, whether we want to or not.  Meaning that he was able to "not see (or hear)" things that were in front of him if they were inappropriate for him.  I found this fascinating 
Isn't that what Rashi says in Parshas Lech Lecha on the words V'agadla shemecha?


No, I don't see that there at all.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jun 2016 07:20 #289403

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כתיב אברם וכתיב אברהם, בתחלה המליכו הקב"ה על מאתים וארבעים ושלשה אברים, ולבסוף המליכו על מאתים וארבעים ושמונה אברים, אלו הן, שתי עינים ושתי אזנים וראש הגויי'
נדרים לב ב

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 02 Jun 2016 03:47 #289452

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gyeuser444 wrote:
כתיב אברם וכתיב אברהם, בתחלה המליכו הקב"ה על מאתים וארבעים ושלשה אברים, ולבסוף המליכו על מאתים וארבעים ושמונה אברים, אלו הן, שתי עינים ושתי אזנים וראש הגויי'
נדרים לב ב

Therefore genetically we have the tools in our hands to cut inapropriate (phone / music) sex from our lives, and use our ears to be there for our spouse / friend and listen to words of wisdom from (our forefather, and now our Captain) Avrom

Are we availing ourselves of the tools?

This is the place!!!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 09 Jun 2016 19:34 #289945

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Possibly we have these tools...

Another P'shat might be that Hashem first gave Avraham the human tools over all the other faculties, and then when he had shown who he really wanted to be and surrendered himself to Hashem completely, then he was given superhuman tools, and Hashem cut out all the unnecessaries.  

Eilu V'Eilu

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 10 Jul 2016 18:45 #291680

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the.guard wrote:

I want to reveal to you all one of the deepest secrets to winning this battle:

The moment a person decides that no matter how much it hurts or how bitter it is - he will do it anyway for Hashem's sake no matter what, and he is willing to suffer whatever pain it takes; an amazing thing happens then: It actually becomes EASY and SWEET!

This is the secret to true success in any spiritual feat, including Torah. Like it says: Zos Hatorah - Adam Ki Yamus Ba'Ohel. As soon as a person accepts upon himself the yoke of Torah to the point where he is ready and willing to suffer for it to the point of death - ZOS HATORAH; that is the Torah, and then he is Zoche to feel the true sweetness of Torah that by far exceeds any physical pleasure. But with Torah it is understandably harder to achieve this high madrega because it requires lots of doing and learning, such as getting up before dawn, going to sleep late, eating little and toiling day and night in Torah. This is indeed hard and requires a huge leap of faith before it starts to get truly sweet.

But when it comes to our struggle with this addiction, it is much easier. We don't have to do ANYTHING. We just have to STOP doing the bad things and accept upon ourselves that even if we feel like we are going to DIE if we don't give in, even if we feel such a deep void and depression that everything we do feels like eating "dirt" - still, we will not give in no matter what and we accept the challenge of this pain with JOY for Hashem's sake, then - and ONLY then - are we Zoche to feel the true sweetness and freedom from the Menuval once and for all forever!!

So take that leap of faith today, and accept upon yourself to succeed no matter how hard it is, and suddenly you will see that it gets easy and feels truly SWEET!

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Last Edit: 10 Jul 2016 18:45 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Jul 2016 18:23 #292503

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markz wrote on 01 Apr 2016 02:57:
Here's my first music post and not the last iyH

BEHS just completed the introduction to Mesillas Yesharim

You may enjoy the tune for
יסוד החסידות ושורש העבודה התמימה הוא - שיתברר ויתאמת אצל האדם מה חובתו בעולמו וּלְמַה צריך שישים מבטו ומגמתו בכל אשר הוא עמל כל ימי חייו. 

Copy this link into your browser
http://zeevhatorah.org/index.php/more/extras/regesh-music
Pause the first song that automatically starts

Search (Ctrl+F) for "04 Yesod Hachasidus", and click the green button to play

It's a matter of taste - Let me know if you enjoy it


Here's another nice music link
This song is for the 3 weeks, they have many other varieties, but now's the time to check it out

aaronteitelbaumproductions.com/js_videos/shloime-daskal-yedidim-choir-shaarei-demaos/
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Last Edit: 22 Jul 2016 18:24 by Markz.

The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Aug 2016 16:26 #293350

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A thought for the 9 days

BRING THE HOUSE DOWN


Rashi says (several places in Shas) that the third Beis Hamikdash in completed form will descend from Heaven miraculously, and therefore it can come down on Shabbos too (As there are no restrictions regarding its building)

The Maharil Diskin asks;
Why then do we pray for the opportunity to assist in its construction (ושמחנו בתקונו)?

He answers that there will be what to complete. The same as man has surgery after birth with circumcision to grant him completion (Ed. the purpose of which according to Rambam is to minimize lust). So too the Beis Hamikdash finishing touches will be in our hands

For example; When the Beis Hamikdash was destroyed, its gates sunk into the ground, and in the future, the Jewish People will excavate the gates and affix them to the Beis Hamikdash (See Medrash Eichah 2:9).

My dear brothers

Do you recall which construction was performed by us in the previous Beis Hamikdash?

The platform for the women's forum to be separated from the men, was built against original building code, at the Simchas Beis Hashoeva celebrations. Its fair to assume it will be repeated by us in the near future, as the Yetzer Hara will yet be in full steam. 

If we want an appreciation of the future constructions, let us prepare by drafting the blueprint today, of the separation from women at the times and venues of rejoicing.

At the same time there's another part of Beis Hamikdash that we should try to build upon - I.e. our relationships

For example the Jewish home. I heard the following incident related

A young man saw an Adam Gadol take the garbage out his house. He said "wow I have what to learn from you".
The Rav turned to him and said "What are you saying? It's a clear Mishna that discusses the trash removal from the Beis Hamikdash"
The young man replied "but that's the Beis Hamikdash... who told you it's applicable here?"
The Rav gave him a look with both his eyes ;-)

Guard your eyes, and may we all be zocheh soon to see the new house come down with our own eyes!
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The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 11 Aug 2016 12:41 #293674

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ur-a-jew wrote on 17 Jul 2013 04:57:
Some thought on Tisha B'av

I was thinking about the Kinnah we say concerning the son and daughter of Rabbi Yishmoel. I would think that if you want to give over a tragedy tell me about the Jewish children who were violated. Why did chazal pick this incident?
I was thinking that perhaps חז״ל wanted to convey to us a message. If someone is faced with the nisayon of arayos, think about the children of Rabbi Yishmoel.
What was Ben Rabbi Yishmoel's reaction: I"m a descendant of Aharon and I should marry a maidservant. We too are mamleches cohanim. We have to ask ourselves the same question. How can we be nichshol in such a sin? The children of Rabbi Yishmoel were so pained by such a thought it brought them to death. Can you imagine how strong a person's grief must be to die from that grief, and in a matter of hours (it was already daylight when they recognized each other). This is what happened to them. Perhaps Chazal are conveying to us next time we are tempted contemplate the pain and anquish that is appropriate in a situation of a mamleches cohanim being nichshal in arayos.
We should be zoche to guard our eyes and in that zechus experience ותחזנה עינינו בשובך לציון ברחמים. I was thinking everyone will see the third bais hamikdash after techias hameysim, but a select few will see bshuvcha at the actual time of return. If I had to guess it is those who work on being מתקן their עינינו their eyes. May we all be zoche.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Oct 2016 13:36 #295928

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Where's the hundreds of new members??

MOAYT
"Missed Opportunity Aseres Yemei Teshuva"

I'm sharing this thought because I see others are having the same thing, what I went thru too for many many many years

As yechidah wrote yesterday, Rosh Hashana is a time of awesome light in the darkness. It uplifts us. 
The problem however is that we put limitations into the measure of light we will allow in

Or from a different angle: Rock bottom is the point of return where guys will take the brave step and do whatever it takes to get real sober, whether with Taphsic that honestly works for them (some try 100 different versions of Taphsic. Brother either it works for you or it doesn't), or opening up with Dov or Cordnoy, or meetings etc...

Many of us with the inspiration of these awesome days say to ourselves on AYT "Ok I'm at rock bottom. My life as a Jew sucks. I'm willing to do whatever it takes". But... It's a catch 22. The inspiration and dread alone which brings the feeling of rockbottom, that itself was sufficient to enable me to stay clean, although a form of white knuckling. Which locked me in a mindset of "why do I need to do anything else for my recovery"

So, many take it halfway. We take the boost Gd gives us to go to full recovery mode which for many means realizing we can't do it on our own, and get out of anonymity - (read the first "dov quote"). 

Instead of that we resort to "white knuckling" which during Elul and AYT is smooth sailing for many. But then the light dims after YK, cause Gd says "I gave you the boost, Now you're on your own", and that is when we are dismayed to learn that we missed a golden opportunity, and it's more difficult to get the push then to get on the road to real recovery, or to realize rock bottom'ing

I was sure that Elul and the AYT is a time of high GYE membership, but it didn't happen, why? I think the answer is as I mentioned, that it's simply easier to white knuckle these days, so "although I was more inspired to get clean these days, I didn't feel the urgency to join GYE"

Current members of GYE can also have similar feelings "I'm sufficiently inspired to be clean at least until YK, who knows what will be after...". And they don't join the real GYE recovery train

Until a short while after YK - days or hours, we realize sadly that we missed the awesome opportunity

G'mar Chasima guys, I hope you feel the light and allow it to shine through the whole year, and share some with us please :-)
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Last Edit: 06 Oct 2016 13:39 by Markz.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Oct 2016 14:37 #295931

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Thanks Mark, from one of the new members. I don't want to miss my opportunity!

TG

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Oct 2016 20:00 #296030

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Thank you Markz for the reminder that it is important to keep in mind that after YK there will be a drop in the free gift and we have to be ready, we have to try to get the most out of these days. and recovery is the key, not white knuckling. 

gemar chasima tovah

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Oct 2016 20:31 #296032

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Hashem decided my free gift this year was not to give me the free gift...

I just wanted to share a great vort I just heard that is perfect for this thread.

We all know the Rambam that full teshuva is when you are in the exact same situation with the same temptation, yet you overcome the temptation. Sometimes it's hard for us to imagine being in then exact same situation with the same level of lust. The temptations of 20 years ago are not relevant to me today and we're certainly not looking to deliberately recreate the temptation, so this could be disheartening.

I think it's the Ohr Hachaim Hakodosh who says that Shabbos supplies that same factor of recreating the same environment.
Odom Harishon was expelled from Gan Eden so it was not possible for him to be put in the same matzav, so he did teshuva on Shabbos - the very first Shabbos after he was created on Rosh Hashana was the first Shabbos Shuva.

May we all be zoche to the gift of teshuva.
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Last Edit: 09 Oct 2016 03:54 by eslaasos.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Oct 2016 20:40 #296033

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eslaasos wrote:

May we all be zoche to the gift of teshuva.

Amen!

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Oct 2016 22:11 #296040

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eslaasos wrote:
Hashem decided my free gift this year was not to give me the free gift...

I just wanted to share a great vort I just heard that is perfect for this thread.

We all know the Rambam that full teshuva is when you are in the exact same situation with the same temptation, yet you overcome the temptation. Sometimes it's hard for us to imagine being in then exact same situation with the same level of lust. The temptations of 20 years ago are not relevant to me today and we're certainly not looking to deliberately recreate the temptation, so this could be disheartening.

I think it's the Ohr Hachaim Hakodosh who says that Shabbos supplies that same factor of recreating the same environment.
Odom Haroshin was expelled from Gan Eden so it was not possible for him to be put in the same matzav, so he did teshuva on Shabbos - the very first Shabbos after he was created on Rosh Hashana was the first Shabbos Shuva.

May we all be zoche to the gift of teshuva.

Amen!

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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 11 Oct 2016 02:48 #296205

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Why did Hashem promote the test of "Guarding our Eyes" in our generation??

There's a Sefer Darkei Teshuva who answers this with another question.
The Gemara Yoma says, one who is מחלל שם שמים, does not attain atonement with תשובה or יום כפורים, but only through death.

We each have our small (/big) ways we have been מחלל שם שמים. So what hope do we have???

Said the Darkei Teshuva - "We know, the גמרא says that a blind man is considered like a dead man (עני חשוב כמת).
That was said about someone that is physically unable to see. All the more so someone that is capable of seeing and closes his eyes so he doesn't see - is surely considered like a מת, and serves as כפרה for his חילול השם. This I heard from Rabbi Avrohom Schorr Shlita on Torahanytime

I have my fair share of חילול השם and due to lust (without going into details on this post). It's only thanks to GYE headed by Reb Yaacov and all the Crew members of this ship, that what used to be a struggle to "Guard your eyes" became surmountable, and I could finally start cutting down on חילול השם, and use my time more productively and start some קידוש השם rolling

G'mar Chasima Tovah to all my dear brothers 
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Last Edit: 11 Oct 2016 02:58 by Markz.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 21 Oct 2016 04:20 #296704

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Gevura bugged me for this, although I know gehinnom is taboo here, so read at your own risk :-)

The Gemara teaches that; Lulavim of the Iron Mountain are invalid when the tops of the lower leaves do not reach the base of the ones above it

And it's related that two such date-palms grow in the valley of Ben Hinom, located at the entrance of Gehinom, with smoke rising from between the two palms
(Tractate Succah pg 32b)

The Gemara may be offering the following lesson;

Many people take a backseat approach when it comes to spirituality, and suffice with bare minimums

There are men that lust, and although they have discovered or been guided to ways that may work to clear the deck, yet they are satisfied with their lot in life, happy with the bare minimum.

There are women who dress with clothes that cover the minimum halachic standards.

Similar to the Tzinei Har ha'Barzel leaves that cover the bare minimum.

Many more examples come to mind, some that apply to myself :-(

Says the Gemara - those trees grow at the gates of hell, because if I play with minimum spirituality, I'm playing with fire

But continue reading the Gemara where you'll see various positive spiritual customs over and above the minimum. For example Esrog and Succah with all the enhancements. This is the road to the garden of Eden :-)
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 23 Oct 2016 16:54 #296785

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Excellent!!!! I saw this piece a few weeks ago and never even thought of that! loved this pshat. Of course life is a journey to better oneself and if one stays stable with the minimum he is bound to fall down. The force of gravity applies similarly, if you don't keep climbing the ladder of kedusha the force of gravity will pull you down even if you don't walk towards sin immediately, this will in turn bring you to a situation where you will fall into sin. Let's keep working on our character traits so we can gain speed and counter the force of stability that is pulling us down if were not in motion! 

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 26 Oct 2016 12:37 #296813

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Markz wrote on 21 Oct 2016 04:20:
Gevura bugged me for this, although I know gehinnom is taboo here, so read at your own risk :-)

The Gemara teaches that; Lulavim of the Iron Mountain are invalid when the tops of the lower leaves do not reach the base of the ones above it

And it's related that two such date-palms grow in the valley of Ben Hinom, located at the entrance of Gehinom, with smoke rising from between the two palms
(Tractate Succah pg 32b)

The Gemara may be offering the following lesson;

Many people take a backseat approach when it comes to spirituality, and suffice with bare minimums

There are men that lust, and although they have discovered or been guided to ways that may work to clear the deck, yet they are satisfied with their lot in life, happy with the bare minimum.

There are women who dress with clothes that cover the minimum halachic standards.

Similar to the Tzinei Har ha'Barzel leaves that cover the bare minimum.

Many more examples come to mind, some that apply to myself :-(

Says the Gemara - those trees grow at the gates of hell, because if I play with minimum spirituality, I'm playing with fire

But continue reading the Gemara where you'll see various positive spiritual customs over and above the minimum. For example Esrog and Succah with all the enhancements. This is the road to the garden of Eden :-)

Why do you want women to cover more than is required of them?
 why do you consider men who lust as a minimum standard?

The above is a bit of a nitpick, but I don't like the tone of the vort.

Yes, there is לפנים משורת הדין,  but one needs guidance on that. Yes, there is a גמרא which states that keeping דין did not suffice (perhaps even brought about חורבן), but again the examples and practical applications are important. I think I remember someone here poking fun at the women who cover their faces ..... Why?
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 26 Oct 2016 16:39 #296823

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I erred in my words 

I meant to write
"There are women who dress with clothes that cover just below the minimum halachic standards"
I do not want to discuss women's issues here, as this is not our department, and it's not for us to judge them

When I wrote
"There are men that lust... "
That was referring to Men that act on their lust

The Gemara may be referring to לפנים משורת הדין, I don't know
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 26 Oct 2016 17:04 #296824

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Markz wrote on 26 Oct 2016 16:39:
I erred in my words 

I meant to write
"There are women who dress with clothes that cover just below the minimum halachic standards"
I do not want to discuss women's issues here, as this is not our department, and it's not for us to judge them

When I wrote
"There are men that lust... "
That was referring to Men that act on their lust

The Gemara may be referring to לפנים משורת הדין, I don't know

Please don't back away because of me.

You mentioned "bare minimum" three or four times. Your tone throughout the post was one that many have that we should go beyond the letter of the law.

Regarding judging women and then not judging women, I was quoting your post.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 26 Oct 2016 17:17 #296825

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At the risk of catching gehinnom... 

I think the point is more a matter of attitude than actual practice. There are those who will always be content with the lowest standard of "being Yoitze" as long as there's some Sheeta that supports it, and make no effort to try to do better than the easiest "Bedieved". It show a lack of taking Yiddishkeit seriously. It's an attitude that its really not important and as long as I can get the bare minimum out of the way then i can just do my own thing.

Sometimes its true that we have a reason to not go further than the minimum, but when Bedieved becomes Lechatchila and there's no interest in trying to live up to a higher standard, then there is a great risk that even the minimum will fall by the wayside.
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...



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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 28 Oct 2016 00:02 #296953

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cordnoy wrote on 26 Oct 2016 12:37:

Markz wrote on 21 Oct 2016 04:20:
Gevura bugged me for this, although I know gehinnom is taboo here, so read at your own risk :-)

The Gemara teaches that; Lulavim of the Iron Mountain are invalid when the tops of the lower leaves do not reach the base of the ones above it

And it's related that two such date-palms grow in the valley of Ben Hinom, located at the entrance of Gehinom, with smoke rising from between the two palms
(Tractate Succah pg 32b)

The Gemara may be offering the following lesson;

Many people take a backseat approach when it comes to spirituality, and suffice with bare minimums

There are men that lust, and although they have discovered or been guided to ways that may work to clear the deck, yet they are satisfied with their lot in life, happy with the bare minimum.

There are women who dress with clothes that cover the minimum halachic standards.

Similar to the Tzinei Har ha'Barzel leaves that cover the bare minimum.

Many more examples come to mind, some that apply to myself :-(

Says the Gemara - those trees grow at the gates of hell, because if I play with minimum spirituality, I'm playing with fire

But continue reading the Gemara where you'll see various positive spiritual customs over and above the minimum. For example Esrog and Succah with all the enhancements. This is the road to the garden of Eden :-)

Why do you want women to cover more than is required of them?
 why do you consider men who lust as a minimum standard?

The above is a bit of a nitpick, but I don't like the tone of the vort.

Yes, there is לפנים משורת הדין,  but one needs guidance on that. Yes, there is a גמרא which states that keeping דין did not suffice (perhaps even brought about חורבן), but again the examples and practical applications are important. I think I remember someone here poking fun at the women who cover their faces ..... Why?

What a crazy coincidence.
Shame on gevurah.
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If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Nov 2016 05:57 #297806

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Markz wrote on 23 Oct 2016 04:24:
First off thanks for that vote

Secondly, you're not the first one that has noted being triggered by the forum. There's others too that benefit from the forum but encounter the same problem you do. I have an idea how we can make the forum better, and therefore would appreciate if you could detail a little what you mean when you say things trigger you, and if you can, an example or 2


Sorry, life's busier than it used to be and I'm not on the forum much. I'll try to give a more detailed response later, but maybe a few ideas that apply to me at least. And I'm sure others can chirp in as well if they want.  In no particular order..
Disclaimer:
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

  1. It feeds my addiction. The same emptiness and compulsiveness that makes me "need" to masturbate drives me to keep reading and responding to posts. And checking if anyone responded yet. Or maybe now they responded. I'll just check one more time.. Let's see who's on? Anything new in the chat? I really can't pull myself away, I'll just refresh the page..
  2.  Sometimes it actually is triggering when people talk about their experiences. This part is probably almost unavoidable, but I suspect it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't on a computer screen
  3. The tone of discussions and disagreements can be triggering for me personally. After visiting SA meetings, I wonder why responses I see on the forum are often/sometimes much more argumentative and confrontational/challenging than what I would expect to hear at meetings. I know, I know. We're Jews and we fight and get passionate because we care.
  4. In SA, it's called focusing on the problem. 
  5. It's always encouraging to hear about others successes and celebrations of milestones (I almost hit 30 days for the 1st time in many months recently!). But it's really discouraging and triggering to hear about their falls afterwards, or before (but then i didn't ). This happens at SA too, a lot. And its really just part of recovery/growing together with a group I think. 
  6. It's triggering sometimes when people are wrong 
    :pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
  7. It's triggering when people are stupid
    :pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

That's about all I can think of, and it's way past my bedtime anyways. I'd like to hear your thoughts?

Also, thanks for the ADD Dov thread if you started it. I hope to check it out next chance I get

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 04 Dec 2016 21:30 #299093

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In the end of last week’s Parsha, Esav marries Mochlas the daughter of Yishmael. There is a well-known Gemara that whoever marries  is forgiven for all his sins. That Gemara is learnt from this marriage of Esav the murderer, lier and rapist who symbolizes the Satan to the daughter of Yishmael, the wild Pere Adam, whose offspring are still living up to their description of his hand against everyone and everyone’s hand against him. And yet, the process of marriage to Mochlas brought a mechilah.

There is much to be learned here but I want to focus on a new thought that came to me when learning Rashi yesterday.

This marriage was apparently a demonstration of Esav living up to his description of sticking out his cloven hooves and pretending to be kosher. He saw that his parents did not want Yaakov to marry a Canaanite girl so he too went and married a daughter of Yishmael, yet he remained with his other wives, who vexed his parents with their Avodah Zarah.

But maybe Rashi (28:7) is telling us something else.

Esav saw that Yitzchak blessed Yaakov, even after he was aware of Yaakov’s trick, he ratified that Yaakov was going to be the chosen one to fill the role of being the father of the Nation that would fulfill the world’s destiny. All their primordial struggles were over. Yaakov had now won both Olam Habo and Olam Hazeh. Esav was finished, destined to live out what remained of his days in a glut of taavos and then be conscribed to the dust-heap of history while he paid for his sins for all eternity. If there was anyone who had a right to be me’yaesh it was he. Nevertheless, when he saw that marriage to someone from his family was a step in the direction of holiness and pleasing to his parents, Esav decided to do that. I don’t know how much of a nisayon it was to go and marry another wife, but it had some wholesome motivating factor. Esav didn’t even have the moral backbone to put aside his existing wives, and it would be ludicrous to think that this would change the course of history, but it was a small step and however down and out he was, it was one little act he could take in the direction of what is right, so he took it.

That little step, which seemed so pointless could have been a gamechanger. All his previous sins were wiped out when he stood under the chuppah. He could have used that moment of grace to start over, but unfortunately for him he didn’t. But he did teach us about the power of not being meya’esh.

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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 06 Dec 2016 18:10 #299270

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לְדָוִ֗ד מַ֫שְׂכִּ֥יל אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
תהלים לב

אשרי מי שמוחלים לו על הפשע שפשע במה שכסה חטאיו, כי מצד שהוא כסוי חטאה ואינו מתודה עליהם שב החטא לפשע ומרד כמחזיק בחטאותיו וענשו קשה, ואשרי מי שנושאים לו פשע זה הגדול
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Dec 2016 00:41 #299297

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Markz wrote on 06 Dec 2016 18:10:
לְדָוִ֗ד מַ֫שְׂכִּ֥יל אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
תהלים לב

אשרי מי שמוחלים לו על הפשע שפשע במה שכסה חטאיו, כי מצד שהוא כסוי חטאה ואינו מתודה עליהם שב החטא לפשע ומרד כמחזיק בחטאותיו וענשו קשה, ואשרי מי שנושאים לו פשע זה הגדול
(מלבי״ם)

How about explaining that in English for those of us not on your level of learning?
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 07 Dec 2016 02:06 #299304

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I'm not yet on your level sorry.
אַשְׁרֵ֥י נְֽשׂוּי־פֶּ֗שַׁע כְּס֣וּי חֲטָאָֽה
The literal meaning is
"Fortunate is the one that his sins are removed and his misdeeds are covered" (Tehillim 32:1)

In other words hiding is a good thing

The Malbim z'l flips the message of the passuk and explains

"Fortunate is the one that his sins are removed. Which sins? That his misdeeds are covered"

In other words hiding isn't always a good thing
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 14:19 #299910

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Singularity wrote:

R' Shimshon Pincus explains it's reality to have ups and downs. But the chiddush is the down period begins at the peak of the up period, because we believe all is good and therefore no need to ask Hashem for stuff. So if, in the up periods, our mentality is still that of asking for more, being better, etc, like cordnoy said, then that "up" will be a new "down" and you won't have to go lower, only higher.
It heavily reduces the real down periods, the urges, etc. Good things can last. We have it in our minds it must come crashing down at some point.
Why?


If you leave your house for 6 months it will collect a heck of a lot of dust. Same if one does not shower for weeks he will be repugnant even if he did not exert and shvitz.
These are natural phenomena. 
The spiritual body is the same. Naturally we are in downhill mode. Even when you reach a peak plateau, you WILL crash c'v, unless you do as Cordnoy says "Work on bettering yourself" / KEEP ON TRUCKING

Singularity. I think this answers your other question - if you should update your count daily every morning?
IMHO it's not necessary and Dov doesn't buy it either as it's sort of white knuckling, however I believe there's a benefit in reaffirming your commitment daily to make today a great one, if that's your intent in the click
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 15:18 #299922

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Thanks.

I'll try have more Kavonnah in my clicks!

How do you know you've surpassed the level of white-knuckling?
"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?"
"... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!"

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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 14 Dec 2016 17:03 #299934

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If you are happy/calm/serene, you are not white knuckling.  If you are restless/irritable and expending a lot of energy to "not look", "not fantasize" or "not do any other acting out activity", you are white-knuckling. 

I'm not sure you ever totally get past white-knuckling.  I haven't.  I still white-knuckle occasionally, but a lot less frequently than I used to.
Last Edit: 14 Dec 2016 17:06 by gibbor120.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 15 Dec 2016 23:58 #300062

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If you are happy/calm/serene, you are not white knuckling.  If you are restless/irritable and expending a lot of energy to "not look", "not fantasize" or "not do any other acting out activity", you are white-knuckling. 

Thank you gibbor for the definition. It helps clarify that in my mind. Sometimes I am not sure where I am and your explanation helps me out. 


I'm not sure you ever totally get past white-knuckling.  I haven't.  I still white-knuckle occasionally, but a lot less frequently than I used to.


Another great thanks! I b'H have not been white knuckling, but sometimes, every once in a while, it feels like I am. I guess it's part of the whole trucking thing; some days are easier than others, and on the other ones when I feel like I might be white knuckling it a bit, I know that if I work more on the ideas in the handbook and on my sobriety it will go away and I'll be back to ME!

Thanks gibbor for the great share!

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 05:20 #301681

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Today's chizuk email

Learning Torah for the Sitra Achara?!
By an anonymous GYE Member

I once saw a quote from Rav Shach, zatzal, (and later verified from someone who had heard him say it) that if the wife of a kollel yungerman wears short or tight-fitting clothes (and I suspect he would include some of the realistic and provocative sheitlach found today), then all the Torah the husband learns is going to the sitra achara. Please try and share this...


Dear email composer
Please share with the anonymous author that if he wants to give chizuk it should be with an open mind (I'm sponsoring free can openers) and understanding, that men and women have their own struggles.

I heard many awesome stories about Rav Shachs sensitivities and unless verified what he actually said, I will presume that if the wife doesn't dress a certain way, that his her issue alone, not her husband's (I'm talking from my experience) and cannot depreciate from his avodas Hashem. 

So whoever needs, this is your chizuk for tonight ;-)...

Until the next email... 
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:06 #301735

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It's a b'feirushe comment in YWN, written lihedya. There's even a tanya d'maseya lo from a kuntrus.

www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/184920/kol-koreh-a-call-for-maintaining-modesty-standards.html
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:16 #301736

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I love Kol koreh's

Its the YWN JHF section
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:22 #301737

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In all seriousness for a moment (if that's allowed at all), there was a time (granted, it was generations ago) when women used to listen to their husbands. Some husbands remain quiet regarding the clothing style of their wives and some even encourage it (those styles you mentioned above).
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:33 #301739

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I like you, Mr trouble!!!

This is the quote from the email

Learning Torah for the Sitra Achara?!
By an anonymous GYE Member

I once saw a quote from Rav Shach, zatzal, (and later verified from someone who had heard him say it) that if the wife of a kollel yungerman wears short or tight-fitting clothes (and I suspect he would include some of the realistic and provocative sheitlach found today), then all the Torah the husband learns is going to the sitra achara


It would pass my esteemed approval if it was written as follows

Learning Torah for the Sitra Achara?!

If the wife of a kollel yungerman is encouraged by her husband to wear short or tight-fitting clothes then all the Torah the husband learns is going to the sitra achara.

Signed
Troublemaker#2
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Last Edit: 01 Jan 2017 21:34 by Markz.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 01 Jan 2017 21:50 #301743

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Thanks.

I like you as well.

Yes, I understand your revision. You addressed the second part of what I wrote. In the first part, I just pointed out that we are living in a time where many wives do not listen to their husband's requests for a variety of reasons.

As an aside, I would like my wife to dress more "with it," but in recovery mode, I have gotten over this (fingers crossed). On vacation today in one of the premier Torah cities in America, it would seem that my wife dresses in the minority, and the tight dresses, knees showing, long sheitilech, and dare I say - the stockings with lines on back (I do apologize for that; just writing that can excite me), many were being worn by kollel wives.
I'm all about that (substantial) bass, no trouble ....

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 02 Jan 2017 01:55 #301760

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Tis a true problem.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 02 Jan 2017 02:08 #301761

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The answers will come if your own house is in order.

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 03 Jan 2017 17:35 #302044

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I~ it~ bit~ abit~ habit~ habitually: when I use to form a habit of vice. Every choice is apart of habit, and each choice can change that habit, The thought will become the ought, if I think often about it, Lust can be so powerful that it is the second thought toward it, that can often lead the rest of the way to the fall, we guard our eyes, the second look, bless Adoni, Amen, shall not be taken, this is my vow of vow~El. The vowel is what give meaning to the word, often verb determine past present and future. Hebrew meaning in word, and deed depends on the vowel. A vow of life dependent of living relationship with El, bless be He.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 29 Jan 2017 04:28 #304504

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Here's an interesting twist

Mussar doesn't necessarily keep a sexaholic sober, however it can help an addict reach a rock bottom which will startup his recovery

Rabbi Twersky on the Parsha - Va'era wrote:
If, due to pressure, the alcoholic stops drinking before he has reached his particular rock bottom, he generally relapses. Sustained recovery occurs only if the person has reached what was for him rock bottom etc...

We all have a bit of the alcoholics tendencies with in us.
If instead of simply making a promise not to lose control of our temper, we did some serious, persistent study of the mussar work on rage, until we felt so crushed by the evil of rage that this episode constituted a rock bottom, we could make the necessary character transformation so that we would not subsequently relapse. We should not need to wait for the tragic, destructive, rock bottom to bring us to our senses
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 30 Jan 2017 11:40 #304581

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The implication here is that if we learn about how bad ZL is we will surely reach rock bottom and scream for teshuva..

I think it might create a LOT more guilt, but would that then push someone to rock bottom...

I'm not sure, it needs thought.
I am not sure how Dov would respond to this...
I like the concept from a middot point of view, but addiction isnt just breaking bad middot... so not sure..

Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 02 Feb 2017 17:49 #304822

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For Shovavim

mdmjerusalem wrote on 12 Jan 2009 13:31:
Halachacly, no fasting is allowed on Rosh Chodesh or 15th of Shvat (אורח חיים סימן תקע"ב)
Nevertheless our Guard is right about the whole concept of fasting.
Our rabbis have altered the way we atone for our wrongdoings
Preferably B’Simcha then B’Taanis
To skip breakfast or coffee in these days, decline your productivity, which is on the expense of your profession especially if you are a learner.

However we still have to break the Chomer to adjust our habits
We can achieve this by selecting one of the following methods:

1) Taanis Shoois :
Not to eat for the [any time limit] from when you get home
Not to eat anything from 6 to 8 in the evening

2) Taanis Haravid:
a) Put your utensil down between each bite
b) Don’t eat food in the method you enjoy it most (Like colder or warmer temperatures, or separate from the foods you like mixed etc.)

3) Taanis Dibur:
Not to speak “in any way” for a “period of time”.
Or, “a specific topic” for instance “Gaza war” for a day.
Or, to a specific individual, which whom you enjoy to schmooze with.

4) much more, you can envision them yourself

Warning: a Kabala ought to be personalized and small
Personalized subtract the routine from the thrust, divided by your aptitude, added to the main goal
Small even minute ones are usually tough enough since the kabala itself toughens the plight tenfold or more
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 20 Feb 2017 13:42 #306252

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Powerful Powerlessness: Everything is in your hands; nothing is in your hands

Dov wrote on 23 Oct 2012 21:50:
I do not know where to post this sweet thing I read from Rav Avigdor Miller zt"l, but it applies so deeply to the recovery derech I was taught in 12 steps (SA) that I just had to post it somewhere:

Everything is in your hands; nothing is in your hands


We see that there are so many fronts on which a man has to constantly exert himself. He has to guard his health constantly. He has to constantly be on guard regarding his personal relations with people. He should be careful not to talk carelessly, to not become angry. He has to guard his finances.
Then, after doing all the things on his own behalf -- after trying his best to be healthy, to live peacefully with people, to have Parnassa (livelihood); after all these efforts -- he is expected to say to Hashem, "Everything comes from Your hand." [As we say in the Shemoneh Esrai three times a day,] "Baruch atah rofai cholai amo Yisrael, "You are the One Who keeps me well." [And right after that we say,] "You are the One Who gives me Parnassa."
That is the great test to which everyone is subjected. The loyal Jew has two different tracks, and he has to constantly think about both and maintain his equilibrium.
How do many people solve this problem? They do so by ignoring one or the other. They go about their business as if everything was in their own hands. They merely do lip service to the other principle. Or, in some rare cases, they trust in Hashem and do not do what is necessary for themselves. But the tzaddik is expected to do both things, and to do them perfectly and at the same time. One should not contradict the other or encroach on the province of the other...
Life is not simple at all. We are constantly between two forces. Our happiness is in our hands. All our relationships -- to our family, to society around us, to our employers, to our neighbors -- are in our hands. Our health is in our hands. At the same time, we have to understand that nothing is in our hands...
It is remarkable how much of our happiness depends on us. (Rav Avigdor Miller on Emunah and Bitachon)


Dedicated For The Refuah Shlemah Of Meir Leib ben Sarah


This is very close to how I live with the idea of powerlessness - yet taking responsibility for taking actions of recovery. Some mistakenly say that following the 12 steps means a risk that the addict may absolve himself of personal responsibility. It - recovery for an addict - is exactly like parnossah for all Jews. All in our hands and yet totally out of our hands.

Teshuvah does not need to be that way, as it can be all in our hands - but Teshuvah is not the way addicts get and live clean. Addicts who actually use the ideas in 12 steps do depend on G-d completely...but the steps are full of action! Just like Parnossah al pi din Torah. For addicts, recovery is completely in the realm of parnossah and health. It is about our survival in Olam hazeh - not about our Olam haboh. And we play the game that Rav Miller describes to the tee, one day at a time.

That is a very important distinction, I think. Thanks for helping me see that and write it here.
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Re: The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk 22 Feb 2017 22:49 #306563

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Is understanding the halachic severity of the sin going to help us?
Dov wrote on 04 Feb 2010 23:39:

tshuvayid wrote on 04 Feb 2010 23:00:

I simply consider undertaking a genuine tshuva starts by understanding the mekoros and ikarim of these issues. It is not only MY opinion but many rishonim and baalei hamusar hold like this.
you can get rid of an issur and a bad habit by shaping your mind to understand and automatically being aware at all times of the harm caused by our deeds.

You are talking about what the sforim and ba'alei mussar say about teshuva. You know this already. Then why is the struggle so hard if you know this already? Hashem doesn't want this for you. So

don't do it.

You are a precious child of His and His personal project. Right? Each of us is.
So why do it? I'm not talking about what's right - I'm asking you about what's with you. Not what's with the Torah. You is what matters because the Torah is not looking at porn or masturbating. Get me?
Let's not play games, neither of us.
Teshuvah is b'ikar about what you have done. What does teshuva have to do with not doing it any more? I know, I know...it's supposed to affect the future...then what's your shayloh?
How about not doing it any more for two months. Then talk about teshuva.
Not so simple?
I'm not talking about addiction here - just about you.
What is the difference in the nature of the issur as far as stopping and staying stopped is concerned, if you agree it is not what your very best Friend ever wants for you?

I wish I had someone ask me this very question 20 years ago. Oh, how I wish it.
Hatzlocha sweet yid!
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