my friend wrote:

Your davenin' and learnin' may mean nothing to Gd, cos it's just something you do naturally....
We only earn points when we do ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when we do ONE percent of that!

All the best my good friend

Please don't say the learning and davening of a compulsive luster may mean nothing to G-d. If you do, please back it up with a source.

Waydown I want to apologize to you if I came across a little harsh, as though I was saying your תורה ומצות aren't worth כלום. I wasn't trying to say that AT ALL
I was saying that we all have our little struggle, and I will confess - one of my little struggles is to say things nicely - I'm not very good at that - my wife knows all about it too...

As I said above i should've written it a little lighter - sorry about that.
Yes there are sparks of genuineness at THE BARE MINIMUM.
but I was making a point which is valid
You Shlomo 24/7 is a good example of someone that has
done ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when ONE percent of that! (You did alot more than 1%)

This is is why I complimented you on your thread for being strong even during vacation period.
A bachur that behaves in yeshiva - yes he will be rewarded by Gd - BUT that doesn't define who he is. He in essence may be a porn addict, only cant act out due to some restraints (this was the idea mentioned by R' Yisroel Salanter ibid)

eslaasos wrote:


Markz, just a thought that was discussed on Shabbos. One aspect of Avrohom Avinu's biggest test was to be an achzor, the opposite of his middah of chesed. However he (perhaps primarily) invested his efforts in utilizing his inborn middah of chesed as his way of serving Hashem.
There is a Gemara that brings this out, but I don't want to make this a long post. If you think this will become a separate conversation, maybe open a new thread in the Beis Hamedrash section.

Waydown, sorry to interrupt your conversation, please carry on. I just wanted to respond to Markz on his post from R' Yisroel Salanter that happens to be a few pages back in your thread.

Avraham avinu utilized his natural middah to perform his avoda which was full of mesiras nefesh. For example he was one person bringing amunah into the world against everyone else. This was an uphill battle envolving mesiras nefesh mamash. He harnassed and utilized his best faculties in this avodah so he used his midas hachesed which was a natural strength. Had he tried to do it with midas hagvurah he would have been less effective because that was not his greatest strength. When it was necessary, of course, he worked with that middah too, like by the akaida. But for a person to just kind of sit back and let his nature lead him in the course of no resistance, that's what Reb Yisrael Salanter is referring to. And this has infinite levels, and to the extent that a person pushes himself beyond his natural comfort zone to do mitzvos, so is the chashivus of his avoda. We should all do mitzvos utilizing our strengths but demanding of ourselves to go the extra mile.

That makes a lot of sense, thank you for the elucidation.
I still don't like the original comment that the learning and davening of a luster may not be worth anything. First, I don't think it's possible to stay consistent with shemiras hasedarim and tefillah btzibur without mesiras nefesh.
My second issue that there is inherent value in learning and davening even if it does become more habitual and requires less sacrifice seems to be the subject of the quote. The quote initially seems to go beyond your understanding - "The obligation is to strive in Avodas Hashem, not to only keep what his nature allows, and what is a little difficult...this can be termed a Porek Ol". However the next sentence seems to be more in line with your understanding - "if he does not put any effort into his Avodas Hashem".
I'm not familiar with the style of this author to be able to be medayek the nuances, so unless someone has more to add I'm fine with your interpretation.

Agav, I believe Rav Dessler has a concept that true lishmah is when the mitzvos become so naturally a part of you that you can't envision yourself not doing them. The same way you wake up, get out of bed and get dressed, part of the morning process is washing your hands and saying Modeh Ani. This requires no mesiras nefesh.

Obviously we must strive to become a person with good values and middos and keeping The Torah is the formula to make that happen. When that happens it has tremendous inherent value, but his 'avoda' then moves on to continue to improve where he has not yet reached. If a person at any point says 'well at this point I'm good enough as I am so no more striving and hard work is necessary' then he has ceased to do 'avoda' and he is neglecting his further responsibilities to do what he has not yet done, because the avoda is never finished no matter how good his midos have reached so far. If he does stop to continue this 'avoda' at that point he is a porek ol.

markz wrote:

eslaasos wrote:


markz wrote:


markz wrote:

You Shlomo 24/7 is a good example of someone that has
done ONE small difficult thing. Correction - when ONE percent of that! (You did alot more than 1%)

This is is why I complimented you on your thread for being strong even during vacation period.
A bachur that behaves in yeshiva - yes he will be rewarded by Gd - BUT that doesn't define who he is. He in essence may be a porn addict, only cant act out due to some restraints (this was the idea mentioned by R' Yisroel Salanter ibid)

Avraham avinu utilized his natural middah to perform his avoda which was full of mesiras nefesh. For example he was one person bringing amunah into the world against everyone else. This was an uphill battle envolving mesiras nefesh mamash. He harnassed and utilized his best faculties in this avodah so he used his midas hachesed which was a natural strength. Had he tried to do it with midas hagvurah he would have been less effective because that was not his greatest strength. When it was necessary, of course, he worked with that middah too, like by the akaida. But for a person to just kind of sit back and let his nature lead him in the course of no resistance, that's what Reb Yisrael Salanter is referring to. And this has infinite levels, and to the extent that a person pushes himself beyond his natural comfort zone to do mitzvos, so is the chashivus of his avoda. We should all do mitzvos utilizing our strengths but demanding of ourselves to go the extra mile.

To summarize the conversation above, it seems to me there is a distinction that can be summed up as the difference between Avodah and Nisayon.
Avodas Hashem is what we were born for, and one of the highest accolades a person can receive is being an eved Hashem. Odom l’omol yulad etc.
A nisayon however is something we are supposed to avoid. We daven v’al tevieinu lidei nisayon.

Perhaps Avodas Hashem is where we utilize our strengths to be marbe kvod shomayim, and a nisayon is when we are challenged by our weaknesses, or asked to overcome our natural inclinations. Both can involve mesiras nefesh, but the reward is much greater for overcoming a nisayon.
I think I posted previously a vort that bears repeating here. The chiddush of lfum tzaara agra is that even if the nisayon is self-created, it still qualifies. Most of us were not born addicts (although we may have addictive tendencies). A slip here and there became more frequent, turned into a habit, was reinforced until it became our jailer. I’m sure Markz can find the chazal about the guest who becomes the baal habayis. This still qualifies us for the status of bmakom shebaalei teshuva omdim etc. as quoted above.

Hashivalisesonyishecho wrote:

...The Artscroll footnotes quote R' Yaakov Kamenetzky zt"l that both Avrohom and Yaakov had to overcome their natural middos during their lifetime, but Yitzchok did not. In order for Klal Yisroel to merit the final Geulah, we need the zechus of Yitzchok overcoming his middah of gevurah.

As a side note, there are other mefarshim who learn that Yitzchok overcame his middah of Gevurah by having rachmonus on Esav...

In Rabbi Frand's Shiur last night, he quoted the Tzror HaMor who quoted a Medrash that says that when the wife of Potifar was seducing Yoseph, he was trying to say no. Finally she was able to convince him to say, "Ok not today, but tomorrow". Yoseph agreed, which ultimately saved him from this test.

This is a powerful lesson for us. When attacked with lust that feels so much stronger than us, we can tell ourselves that we'll give in, just NOT TODAY. Often we'll find that tomorrow we'll feel stronger. If not, we can again tell ourselves, JUST NOT TODAY
guardureyes.com/GUE/GUEList/GUEList19

The day I get to 90 days wont be my main marker. At that point I'll say העבר אין. What will be tomorrow? Who cares? העתיד עדיין.
My concern is for today... But I give up. I surrender it all to Gd.
Therefore דאגה מנין. Serious

An Addicts Al Hanissim, by YVY

G-d, I don't thank You enough, but at this time of Chanuka I'm given the opportunity to focus on all that I owe as a member of the Jewish people, and as one who has been blessed with Your miracles and continues to be blessed every day. I'm indebted to You for redeeming me from the dreadful life I lived, the emptiness, the loneliness of one held prisoner by a merciless, senseless captor. Thank You for revealing Your infinite power to me - I really needed it; I was and I still remain powerless. You saved me from definite destruction, from sinking lower and lower into my lust. You fought my battles, because I could no longer fight. You did this for our Fathers at this time of year, and I recognize this time of year as one best suited for recognizing that all my success comes from only You.

In the days of Matisyahu and his family, when the threat of the dominant culture was eating away at our deep, long standing, relationship, throwing our people into darkness, forgetting our humble submission to Your will as expressed in the Torah You gave us, driving us away from living according to Your plans, plans we had committed ourselves to, whether we understood them or not. We had this essential humility before we were overtaken by the drives to escape into the self-centered pleasures and beauty of the world around us, to replace Your plans with our fancy. We took charge. We used to crave only You, and we turned to other sources of pleasure, dark and artificial, unfulfilling and selfish.

And You, You never gave up on us. In Your great kindness, Your real feelings of mercy for us, You stood up, revealed your Awesome Wonders when we were entrenched in the narrow quarters of helplessness and isolation, our corrupt design for living. We could no longer fight - now You would fight. We couldn't reverse the damage that was done, but You could. We were weak, we are weak, we came to understand that then. When that became real to us, You quickly subdued the mighty insurmountable forces we had been fighting for years. There were so many battles, we had dug ourselves so deep, but you handed that to us too. We were drawn to so much impurity, buried in so much dirt, soiled, but You showed us we could be pure if we would only let You fight for us. Evil ones, those who were out to destroy us unmercilessly, unforgivingly, disappeared in the face of those who chose Your righteous path, those who submitted, and committed, themselves to working towards the fulfillment of only Your will.

An You thereby made for Yourself a great and holy name in the world. You made it known that miracles are ready for us when we're ready to see them and live with them. You saved Your people, You renewed the deep bond we always had, You brought redemption - ah... the relief I can and do experience today, and every day.

After our relationship was rekindled, Your precious children, recognizing the love their Father in heaven continues to have for them, came back home. They devoted themselves to clean up their side of the street, take actions to remove all resentments and false medications for pains that drew them away from You. They brought purity to Your home, understanding Your home is holy, our relationship with You is intimate and profound, and turning from You is unthinkable. They did not just recognize your love, but they took definite steps to kindle the relationship, to shine the light of their new clarity living in Your presence, in Your home. They established 8 days to focus on Your kindness then, and always, to devote to thanking You, recognizing Your infinite power to continually draw them from the ever present darkness. They take those 8 days with them throughout the year and their lives, never forgetting where they once were and the infinite light they continue to ignite and kindle.

CHIZUK FROM CHANUKA:

The miracle of the oil, was that there was only a little bit of untainted, pure oil left - only enough for 1 day, but Hashem made it last for 8 days.

Sometimes, we dont have a lot of strength in us, we feel we can only remain clean for a short while, we dont have it in us for the long haul. If we dedicate our short time clean to Hashem and say, 'this is as much as I can do, please keep me clean', He is surely able to repeat the miracle and give us the ability to remain clean for much longer!

[
[size=4]This Gemara is astounding!
If my understanding is correct, the heilige Gemara that I love so dearly, is teaching a profound lesson - that Gemara Tavlin is not the solution to all Yetzer Hara's, even if you are the Godol hador. [/size]

bardichev wrote on 18 Jun 2009 19:37:


Holy Bardichev,

I don't remmember learning specifically on the subject but in the spirit of the Gemorah Shabbos Kuf Yud Ches Amud Bais where Reb Yosi states "In my days I never transgressed the words of my friends. I know that I am not a kohen, but if my friends asked me to go up and Duchen (say the priestly blessings), I will go" Bezres Hashem here are my thoughts:

1. It says in the Tanya in Likutai Amurim Perek Bais, our Neshamos are a Chelek Elokai Mema'al Mamish, meaning we are totally connected with Hashem. Therefore, from a practical standpoint, Hakodosh Baruch Hu made us inseparable with him under all circumstances - even when we are steeped in Tumah. To add something that is very relevant to us, since Hashem is the only "Ani",the less we feel our "Ani" and give over ourselves to his mercy, the more he will be shochain Bisochainu - helping us with our struggles. This reminds me of a story I heard from my Tanya Rebbi. There was a Talmud Chacham recluse who was also a Baal Gaava that went to visit (I think) the Baal Shem Tov. As he was walking into his study, he heard the Baal Shem Tov say, Im Yisaser Ish Bmistarim V'ani - Lo Yireno Nium Hashem. The poshut pshat of this posik means that "if someone hides in hidden places does he not think that Hashem will see him? The Baal Shem Tov changed the meaning to "If someone hides and he is a Baal Gaava, (Ani), then Hashem will not see him. The Talmd Chacham got the message and worked on himself and came back 3 years later. As he was walking into the study the Baal Shem Tov said "Im Yisaser Ish Bmistarim V'ani Lo - Yireno Nium Hashem. This means that if a person nullifies himself before Hashem, then it will result that the countenance of Hashem will shine upon him.

2. I don't remmember if he quoted this posuk but Horav Moshe Wolfson said that the Yom Tov of Chanukah symbolizes
the posuk of Hashochen ...Bsoch Tumasam. Consider this, in Torah literature, "light" symbolizes Kedusha and "dark" symolizes Tumah. "Right" symbolizes Kedusha and "left" symbolizes Tumah. Higher than 10 Tefachim from the ground Symbolizes Kedusha and lower then 10 Tefachim symolizes Tumah. The Reshus Hayachid symbolizes Kedusha and the Reshus Horabim Symbolizes Tumah. (Taking a line from Holy Barditchiv, if you are driving then pull over). Chanukah is the letters Kohen Ches, meaning every yid is a Kohen for eight days. From the aformentioned, we learn that we become Kohanim and light the menorah (ideally) outside our houses in the reshus harabim, on the left side, under 10 tefachim, during the longest nights of the year during Chodesh Teves. During Chanukah, Hashem visits us in the depths of our Tumah and helps light the fire in our hearts.

3. We are Hashem's children. We might be in golus and sometimes doing all the wrong things, but Hashem our tatte in himel will never forsake us no matter how much we dirty ourselves. Because a normal father, even if he sends his son away from him as a result of his transgressions, will always be there looking after him. How much more so our tatte bechina of Havaya, will always be there for us.

Pintele Yid

I want to address two more issues.

1) Any approach that you take is going to have to involve a serious investment. (Including time, emotional energy etc.) The only way one would invest so heavily, is if he feels that his situation is desperate enough to warrant such an investment.

So one may feel, that speaking about the great nachas ru'ach that your efforts give Hashem etc., can be harmful to the addict - making him feel that it's okay that he's addicted and he doesn't need to do anything major about it.

Here again I feel very strongly that balance is in order. Every addict must know (most people that come here know this already) that if he doesn't take very serious action, the addiction is liable to totally destroy his life in this world and the next. Being so completely involved in taivoh, is by far the greatest threat to any Jew. Of-course we can go on about this all day and not get to the end of it.

But it's also very important to know that the situation that you find yourself in, is not c'v a mistake or a stroke of bad luck. You must know that Hashem put you there for a reason. Just like a commando soldier that is secretly working within enemy territory; although your situation is extremely dangerous, at the same time it helps to know that if Hashem sent you there, it means He believes in you! [The overwhelming majority of strugglers have a huge self-image problem and it is [b]crucial [/b] for them to know what Hashem really thinks of them.]

And if you care enough to DO something about it, then you ought to know what your efforts mean to Hashem. You must know that your situation is only as desperate as you let it be. Because if you take action, you will succeed.

And of-course you also need to know that if c'v you find yourself in a situation that is impossible for you, then every bif of effort and every bit of not falling (even if one fell partially) is a tremendous accomplishment. Not only does it give a great nachas ruach to Hashem, but it also merits you more siyata diShmaya in the future and brings you a step closer to holiness.

2) Some people are under the impression that the Torah approach is that the battle must be fought with "white-knuckling". This is as far from the truth as you can get. We were always taught "bitachbula taaseh milchama" don't fight the y'h head on. That's why we must avoid temptation as much as we can.

Furthermore, when dealing with lust-addiction, it's blatantly obvious that you can't stop while being connected to taivoh - which is synonymous with being distant from Hashem. You need to make an about face and direct your life towards Hashem instead of away from Him.

Personally I'm sure that if one let's himself remain the same old baal-taivoh that he was and just tries to use brute-force to stop himself from sinning, it won't work! At least that was my experience.

But whatever situation you find yourself in, you always have to do what you can. That might mean turning your head away each time it turns itself towards pritzus even if you have to do it a thousand times in a row. It might mean stopping yourself even after you let loose. It might mean forcing yourself to think when your taivoh is not letting you.

It's important to know that every effort that you put in -whether it's white knuckling or otherwise- is a tremendous accomplishment and a tremendous investment.

I have been hearing a lot about "surrendering out lust to god" or something like that. i would like to learn what this means can anyone offer me some direction where to go?
thank you in advance.
I have also seen some people say things like "god this lust is too strong for me please take it away" this is something i dont understand if Hashem gives us a problem like this surly He wants us to become better people through it not that we should just beg Him to take it away that would be a little pointless?

#12: Asking Hashem to take it away -
A few days ago, I was having a really tough time controlling my thoughts. Out of desperation, I thought to myself, "There are guys on GYE who say that they just ask Hashem to 'take away the lust,' and they say that it works. Why not give it a shot?"
I didn't verbalize it, there were people around, I just thought it: Hashem, I'm having a difficult time with these thoughts. Please take them away from me.
Poof! They disappeared immediately.
Why does this work?
I think the answer is that when we're asking Hashem to help us through it, we are forcing ourselves to think about Him, even if it's on the most basic level. Intrinsically we know that these desires are all about making ourselves feel good, throwing Hashem and all other victims to the sidelines. If I believe in Hashem enough to ask Him to help me through a hard time, I'm putting Him at the center of it all and then there's no room for entertaining such thoughts and desires.
May we all have the strength to keep Hashem at the center of our lives and ask Him for help when we need it.

PARSHAS VAYIGASH

'kamoh yemei sh'nei chayecho' Pharoh asked Yaakov avinu - how many are the days of the years of your life. Rav shimshon raphoel hirsch says that pharoh understood the importance of each individual day. He was therefore asking yaakov, how have you utilised each day? how many days really counted, to which yaakov, in his anivus answered, little and nothing compared to my forefathers. ( i know this doesnt fit with the chazal about yaakov losing 33 years of his life coz he shouldnt have complained but rav sr'h knew a lot more than i do!).

we can apply that here. Each day counts, that means if i messed up yesterday - so what? today is a new day and conversely if yesterday was great, that doesnt mean today is gonna be good as well - in other words, each day has its own unique potential and thats the way we should live life as well as recovery - ONE DAY AT A TIME!!

markz wrote:


According to this perspective what is then the source of our addiction? Why are some people addicted and others not? These people, who you assume can talk to a woman without fantasizing, I can't imagine the 12 steps just came naturally to them. So what's their secret?

Unless you know otherwise I would actually disagree with your premise. Chaza"l say that "Gezel v'Arayos nafsho shel odom mechamdton" (translated: lust for money and sex are innate to the human soul). That seems to imply that everyone has a "chimud" for arayos. I think this is called "lust", no?

Why are some people addicted and others not?

Chaza"l say that "Gezel v'Arayos nafsho shel odom mechamdton". That seems to imply that everyone has a "chimud" for arayos. I think this is called "lust", no?

I like to spend time either in Torah or in recovery

Hi Mark,
Thanks, that was inspiring and interesting.
One question - how is it possible to have a day without a single mitzvah? What about אפילו ריקנין שבך מלאים מצוות כרמון? I'm sure you're familiar with the Gemara in Kiddushin that a kidushin on condition he is a tzadik is valid because even a hirhur Teshuva qualifies.
Actually we just came across this recently in the end of Sotah. Elisha cursed the people who were disrespectful and they were killed by bears. The Gemara says that he saw with Ruach Hakodesh that there was not even a לכלוכית of a Mitzvah in them or any of their descendants. This question bothered me then also.
Could it be there are different definitions of mitzvos here? Any and all new insight would be appreciated.

I am writing to say that I am feeling really good this morning. Yesterday was a good strong day B’H. I pummeled the Y’H right where it hurts and he slunk away a beaten man. He tried so many times to entice me throughout the day in so many different guises. B'H each time I knocked him for six. I devised several different ways of controlling my eyes and thoughts one of which I find particularly helpful.

When I reach the traffic lights and stop for the red signal I invariably used to look/gaze at the drivers to my left and right and make eye contact with them. I would do this after shul on the way into the city to my office. The good Hashba'os from Shacharis would be obliterated by my careless looking at women in their cars. It would practically set the tone for the day and was a perfect kick start for the Y'H. Now he had me on a roll and then it was plain sailing for him once I got into work (with the thoughts of what I had seen on the way in) and before my PC in my private office.

Now, whenever I reach the lights, I look down at my tzitzis, count the strings and fiddle with the knots. I think of the reason why I'm wearing these and what they signify. I recall the words for which these holy strings were instituted - 'veloi sosuru acharei levavchem ve'acharei eineichem asher atem zoinim achareihem'. I only move off once the fellow behind me sounds his horn. I don't care making him mad at me for not moving the second the lights turn green. 'I am engrossed in my private battle that I'm determined to win so you behind me can wait 2 more seconds before moving off’ The best nachas is the fist he waves at me when he overtakes me! That’s the Y’H's fist saying 'I’ll get you next time'!

I don't think so sonny, have a rotten day and I hope you’re unsuccessful in everything that you do!!

Where did I get the strength from? I never used to have the strength to be so powerful in my self-defence. Never before did I think that I would be able to beat him with such ease.

I'll tell you where I got the strength from; from the likes of ME, ELYA K, MEVAKESH, NICEGUY and all the other wonderful fellow warriors. I tell you, I'm not kidding - if it were not for this forum, I would never have had the ability to make a start on my missile defence programme!

....even if we say that Lo Sosuru is "only" an issur M'draban, this is in itself very severe, (I am not saying that I myself am not over on this)...but the chafetz chaim says in Shmiras HaLoshon, that a person must be prepared to give up "everything" that he owns just in order to to transgress a M'draban.

I found this on the web:

1) WHAT IS "HISTAKLUS?"
2) THE PROHIBITIONS OF "V'NISHMARTA" AND "V'LO SASURU"

So I'm writing separately to take away any hint that I'm suggesting "one who thinks a bad thought is a sinner." I would disagree violently with such a guilt trip, and assume that such a belief system could throw folks into unwarranted despair

My dear friend...here at GYE we don't hold by "guilt trips". They are just as destructive as any y"h, and they are also one of his strongest tactics.

לא תתורו אחרי לבבכם - זו מינות - Do not stray after your heart - this refers to heresy.

Why is heresy referred to as following your heart? Shouldn't it say - don't follow your mind? Isn't it the mind that causes one to stray?!?

Nope. A person's heart, his desires, cause him to stray. The mind just finds the rationalization for it afterwards. It seems to start in the mind, but it actually starts in the heart

"Do not follow the desires of your heart (Bamidbar 15:39)".

Our sages comment that this verse warns us not to stray from our belief in G-d. Reb Elchonon asks: Why the heart? Why not the mind? Why don't our Sages tell us not to make the intellectual mistake of heresy. What does the heart have to do with not believing?

Reb Elchonon answers that belief in G-d is Mankind's "natural condition." In lieu of external influences, every person would cling to his faith, and heresy would not exist. However, there are countless distractions and provocative challenges to our moral integrity. These opportunities for forbidden pleasures act as a bribe to our intellect. Suddenly our judgement becomes blurred, and we find ourselves looking to justify the illicit behavior. Not far down that path is the porthole to disbelief. The Torah's command not to follow the desires of our heart is a warning to not take thebribe offered by temptation, because its end is in apostasy

In the Parsha of TZITZIS, the Torah Teaches us: "VE'LO SASURU ACHAREI LIVAVCHEM VIACHAREI EINICHEM - And you shall not stray after your heart and after your eyes".

Said Reb Lazer, VE'LO SASURU - you should not stray from the path of Hashem, ACHAREI LEVAVCHEM, V'ACHAREI AINEICHEM. The Torah is telling us, that even AFTER you already sinned, even AFTER you already started to go after your heart or eyes, DON'T CONTINUE the downward slide that the Yetzer Hara is trying to get you into even more than the sin itself!

So if you sinned, shake it off and continue on!!
HaGaon Reb Leizer Geltdzeler ZT"L:


FALL SHMALL SLIPPEDD SHMIPPED YANKEL SHMANKEL bARDICHEV SHMARDICHEV

YOU GET THE DRIFT

bardichev

Don't untie your kesher with Hashem after(acharei) you went after your eyes and after your heart. The greatest nachas ruach for Hashem is when we keep fighting even after we've been beaten.

CHAZAK VEEMATZ!!!

Pidaini wrote:

Just wanted to add that while we are not held responsible for those annoying thoughts that pop up, we need to do our part in ignoring and not dwelling on them. As the sforim explain the possuk:
ולא תתורו אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם
You shall not stray 'after' your hearts and 'after' your eyes.
i.e. the involuntary thought, or the involuntry look is not your fault, but be careful not to keep thinking or looking afterwards

דרוש א׳

elaalavinu wrote:


I can't tell you what the great Mark was saying, but it sounds like he was saying something that I feel is right. I agree that Torah can feel like it's getting rid of some of the shmutz saved in your hard drive, and also Torah is magen umatzli, but we need to know that just limud hatorah alone is not what Hashem wants from us, and in many cases is not enough for us.

It could be that if we were to do nothing but be omeil batorah 24/7 for the rest of our lives, that would be good enough, but that's not possible, and also not why Hashem put us here.

More specifically what Mark was saying, if there is a root cause that drives us to escape with lust, we need to uproot it, otherwise it is likely that the images we erased may eventually be replaced with newer ones next time we find ourselves on the wrong side of the battlefield.

Mark, feel free to correct my interpretation of your post, but in any event this is my understanding.

What Torah commandments are involved in gazing at photos of undressed unmarried gentile women?

Dear Chasid - welcome to our community!

A non-religious man once told the Brisker Rav that he doesn't believe in G-d because he has many questions. The Brisker Rav told him, "you don't have questions, you have answers". So my friend, if this question you ask is really an "answer" to why you aren't working on yourself, then I don't know if I can help you. However, I believe that the fact you are asking us this question is because you genuinely want to stop these behaviors. You just feel you need to understand more how dangerous and sinful it is, so that you can convince the Yetzer Hara to leave you alone.

There's no question that any Posek you will ask will tell you that it is prohibited. I would like you to realize that your question is really the "addiction" speaking, and that this is one of the tricks of the addiction. Rabbi Twerski, founder of an Alcoholic Rehabilitation Center, compared such claims to me once on the phone, to an addict who says "I was just trying beer, I wasn't drinking whiskey"...

As far as the prohibitions are concerned, anyone who is frum and has learned any Torah, should be aware of the severity of these sins. The Torah says "Thou shall not go astray after your hearts and after your eyes which lead you astray,". This applies to any image that arouses one's sexual inclination, and erotic images of any type are definitely forbidden. The Rabbis state that anyone who purposefully arouses his sexual organ is to be banished (Niddah 13A). The Gemara there even goes as far to say "Better one's stomach should burst than he should touch the area of his bris (and possibly bring himself to an erection)". And another Gemara says "better to walk behind a lion than to walk behind a woman". And another Gemara: "whoever brings himself to an erection is destroying the world". This is not Mussar or Chassidus, this is regular Gemara. Chaza"l were fire about this! The Medrash says that anyone who is not careful with gazing at women will come to sin with them in the end.

Viewing porn is also included in the prohibition of "Lo Sikrevu Legalos Erva, Ani Hashem Elokeichem" - "Do not come close to revealing nakedness, for I am Hashem your G-d". There is no other Mitzva in the Torah where such terminology is used. Even with idol worship, the Torah doesn't say not to come close! Only with sexual matters, the Torah exhorts us to stay far away from it. It is also interesting to note that the Torah uses the words "do not come close to reveal nakedness" and not "to sexual relations". This implies that "revealing nakedness" (i.e. even looking) is, on some level, as if one had already done the act.

This little test can be your meter - if an image triggers a sexual twitch, a stronger heartbeat, sweaty palms, or even a silent, "Wow!" then you are polluting your soul, damaging your "Da'at," the ability to know G-d, and cutting yourself off from the Divine Presence, the Shechinah. The eyes are the windows to the soul and they are the vessels to receive the light of the Shechina. One who has damaged these vessels will not be able to bask in the glory of the Shechinah in this world, nor in the next.

I have plenty of reason of why not to do such a deed. Reason much greater than the reason you have mentioned. I do not not know why you haven't mentioned these reasons because they are clearly mentioned by the Rambam in his Pirush on Sanhedrin 7:4 and in Hilchot Teshuva.

My knowledge is limited and that is why I am asking. I want to know what Torah prohibition are involved in the case of gentile undressed women. The only on that I can think of is "you shall be holy." Which is a general prohibition. The prohibition of not straying after your eyes would apply to relatives, a niddah, a married woman. For this reason I asked about a unmarried gentile woman.

wowee we have a lamdan on board

the ramban tells us the basics of yiddishkite is NOT to be a NAVAL BERESHUS HATORA.
I am also a chasid and I learned some torah too but I don’t have the correct TEITSH of the word NAVAL I think it can be loosely translated as a PIG in the permission of the Torah.

You can go down this road and get all cute with your diorayssos and dirabanans ultimately you will be a NAVAL.It may work in lomdus bet your heart and mind will be GOYISH

Dear yid
You can choose any path you want in life it is yours to make or break .In the end you have one court to answer to. That is you being honest with yourself.
When you are listening to tekias shofar wrapped in your tallis holding your leather bound machzor swaying back and forth and the image of the gentile unmarried n****d women pops into your mind will you be so brazen and say oh cute no di'oraysa there.or when the whole shul is dancing with fervor in simchas tiorah and you cant keep your eyes off the ezras noshim imagining who knows what. what will you tell YOURSELF then???

CHERPAS NAVAL AL TISIMEINI!!!

there is a long Rambam regarding this so is there a rabbeinu yonah I don’t have either in front of me know so I cant quote them.

See the or hachayim in the parshas arayis in achrei mos

Listen up end of the day you will have to look yourself in the mirror and honestly tell yourself I'm good I was only oiver drabbananan.

Besides there is a gemara in avodah zra 27 poretz geder yishchenu nachash

usually humble and usually happy
bardichev

Bardichev: Please do not reply to any of my posts till you learn how to read.

boy can I read...

I won't respond to your post and I hope no one reads them .This a freindly place with people who want to be helped can be helped .

humbled
b

Barditchev Tzadik, I know you mean Leshaim Shamayim, but I think you misread Chasid. He also means Lishaim Shamayim. He is only trying to help us mention the most important reasons why we should encourage people to stop these behaviors.

Let's make all the effort we can on these forums to only be mekarev with Ahavah every Jew and be dan likaf zechus unless we are 100% sure that someone's intentions are not proper. And even if so, preferably contact me about it and I'll try to deal with it.

Chasid, please forgive us. We know you mean good.

I love all Yidden!!

I apologize
sorry
I love all yidden too

I have heard that in the Zohar, it is said that the sin of wasted seed is the worst sin for which no recovery is possible.  And further that relations with non-Jews attaches to us even in Olam Haba. 

Not to say there aren't other factors, but these two things are like dark clouds hovering over my head.  What are the defenses against these charges?

OK, so lets say that you did understand the Zohar correctly. Now what? Does the Zohar mean that Hashem now hates you? Doe sit mean that you have no more meaning to Him? That you have no beauty and goodness in your life?

Sha"s says clearly that any person who embarrassess another in public has no part in Olam Haba. So if you once did that, and many of us certainly have, then what? What do you do about it? Do you kill youself emotionally by giving up everafter on living a deep, happy, and fulfilling beautiful life as Hashem's favorite 'ontheedgeman'-guy? Bishvili nivra Olam does not apply to you any more? Rubbish. Just plain rubbish.

It's a stain, period.

Neeeext! (or as Reb bards would put it: KEEP ON TRUCKING!)

I am serious. This is avodas Hashem we are talking about. It is your real life, not a religiously-contrived game of who is a "rasha" or "tzaddik", or who is going to gehinom or not going. And it needs to last about 80 or 90 years. Though we all suffer from it, the truth is that there is no real place for self-pity in this life. It is destructive and ruins us. It needs to be rejected as an option once we wake up. I frequently have to reject it, so I may know just how you feel...

If you are headed to gehinnom or can't do Teshuvah, then what? The way I see it, now you can serve Hashem even though you will not get a big fat honor-prize from Him for it...for after all, you have this stain on you. Nu. So you can now do what He wants for Him, instead of just for you and your ticker-tape parade in Gan Eden. We all envision something like that, you know...a ticker-tape parade. "Make way and open the gates for the tzaddik Shomer Emunim!"

Read the RMB"N's iggeres. 2/3 of the way down. So? Now you finally have a way to really see others as having an advantage over you, instead of having to manufacture one. This is nothing new. If you read the letters of many great tzaddikim and many simple Yidden from the past you will see this theme: "b'avonosai harabim asher otzmu v'robu misa'aros roshi...etc." Well, now you can say that and really mean it.

And exactly what is so bad about that? I think it is a fine place to start out. See where He takes you from there. He is very good at rearranging things and working them out so life works better, you know. He does that for me and lots of other people I know and does a fine job.

I know most of the good people around here are uncomfortable with anything but a touchy-feely, 'feel-good' kind of yiddishkeit. But I don't need to start with that. I have a G-d who loves me even if I would be a rosha c"v, and certainly even though I'd be right on my knees in that bathroom with a magazine open on the floor and 'getting the old shameful job done'. Hey, He was right there, too, with me, no? And He brought me here nonetheless! Isn't that love?

And that's enough for me to be in allegiance to Him for the rest of my life. Ashirah laShem bchayay, azamroh leiloay b'odi, ye'erav olov sichi - anochi esmach baShem!!

PS. I am not suggesting that you must do this. I am only offerring a way out for you - or rather, a way through (durch, in yiddish, I believe). Even your worst fears about this stuff can be a vehicle for you to live a better life.




I am not trying to minimize the cheit of sex with yourself (masturbation). The Zohar and Chaza"l say the truth, of course. Still, it is no reason for a Jew to give up on a great life and lose faith in Hashem's abounding love for him/her. And how can it always be halachically considered yehoreg v'al ya'avor - the case in the gemorah was surely a hora'as sho'oh for that person based on the circumstances.

But all this is not necessarily true for addicts. I know a beautiful chassidishe yid with about 20 years sobriety from lust whose acting out included prostitutes, etc., who says to his G-d every day, "Teiereh Tatteh, if I am going to act out today, then please, please take me first."

Many of us - whether sex and lust addicts or alcoholics, or whatever-aholics, have very low bottoms. Life is definitely not worth living as an acting out addict. So we truly prefer death to such a life. That is how precious our sobriety is to many of us.

This is not a madreiga, but a choice based on enlightened self-interest, plain and simple. We are so sick, that sobriety is more precious than anything else, period.

I guess that is the pnimius of "yehoreig v'al ya'avor", no? Is a Jew to die rather than do the big three because Hashem says so - or because he needs to die rather than do such things? I think it is the latter....though to those I feel are 'olam-haba-seeking goodie-goodies', the former is obviously their aspiration.

Nu. To each his own.

Parshas Vaera

וידבר אלקים אל משה ויאמר אליו אני ה' וגו

Why does it say 'vayomer alov', it seems repetitious, and why does it say 'vayedaber' and then 'vayomer', why the change of terminology?

(i am quoting the lashon here verbatim)
עיקר השראת השכינה הוא על בחינת נשברי לב, כמאמר הכתוב את מי אשכון ואת דכא ושפל רוח וגו', היינו על בחינת בעלי תשובה, כי כשאדם חוטא ועל ידי זה נשבר לבו בקרבו ושב בתשובה שלמה, הוא ממשיך על עצמו אור התשובה, ובחינה זו גדול מאוד בעיני השם. עכ"ל
The primary dwelling of the Shechinah is on people who have broken hearts, the level of baalei teshuvah. After a person does an aveirah and his heart is broken and he does true teshuvah he draws upon himself the light of teshuvah. This is very precious and dear in the eyes of Hashem.

The pasuk starts off וידבר - לשון קשה, when Hashem rebuked Moshe for saying למה הרעותה , Moshe's heart broke and he immediately did teshuvah. Hashem then spoke to him with a tender tone, ויאמר - לשון רכה


Bas Ayin

The reason one needs a Rav is because there are always variables that need to be addressed specifically. There very possibly will be a different set of rules for an addict. I have written on GYE many times that i don't believe halachah should be bantered around at all, on any thread.

Regardin' the hashkafah of intimacy, one should get sober first before addressin'.

b'hatzlachah

Until the day 'Cordnoy quotes' is threaded I feel it's important to quote this great one here, since not everyone has access to the Mikva
cordnoy wrote:

Question for the weekend - why does mezonos and z'nus have the same shoresh?

Awesome, tysm Mark. Your bekios is inspiring.

A few comments -

1. According to this, the well known vort of masbeio ra'ev is limited to bios asuros. I would like to suggest this includes encounters with your wife that are technically mutar but are motivated by self-indulgence.

2. The taste of biah was given to baalei aveiroh. This at first seemed to me to be contradicting the point above. Then I thought along the lines of that taam is not ikar. Again just suggesting - maybe the Kli Yakar is referring to the illusion that lust indulgence will make us happy.

Any thoughts?

Posting on behalf of Stillgoing -

Maybe mezonos, which means sustenance, can be missused by overeating. Personally i find that when indulging in lust, i also do the same with food.When i was younger my body shrugged it off. Now im starting to feel the weight and it's calling attention to me, that eating (mezonos) and lusting (z'nos) often follow each other - at least for me.

eslaasos wrote:

eslaasos wrote:


Anything can be misused.
The shoresh of the word is probably it's definition when it is used properly.

markz wrote:


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.

markz wrote:


Nice vort.
Accordingly, es laasos's question is even stronger now.

cordnoy wrote:


At your convenience, can you please clarify.

cordnoy wrote:


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.

cordnoy wrote:


I think you're referring to our previous discussion about this. To sum up, the similarity noted by the Kli Yakar is that both are Masbia. However, there is a difference because without food we would die, and without sex, we would not die.
I asked you then if perhaps the connection is that procreation is necessary for survival from a global and spiritual perspective, albeit not on the individual level.

If you meant something else, please share.

eslaasos wrote:


I try to focus on one topic at a time.
The keli yakar does not address the similarity of the two words. If anything, he contrasts them, for he equates the word lechem to be referring to eating and cohabitation, but only when performed with one's wife. Accordingly, when one cohabits with a woman who is forbidden to him, she is not lechem, and that is why there is no "zan" (unless you say that they are opposites).

cordnoy wrote:


My understanding of the Kli Yakar is that he is indeed comparing the 2 terms in that tashmish in its proper form is masbia the eiver, the same way that lechem is masbia. However, if a person misuses tashmish and turns it into znus, then it is as you wrote and there is no satisfaction (it is not masbia) as he has corrupted the lechem.

I used to translate the word zan/mezonos as sustain/sustenance. According to this Kli Yakar, it appears satisfaction is more accurate.

Agav, I must thank Markz for this designated Torah of lust thread because otherwise you wouldn't philosophize with us.

Thanks Markz! Great Kli Yakar.

Not that he needs any haskama from modern science, but I indeed saw some physiological explenation of that same phenomenon. That the body actually reacts differently to intimacy with a wife vs masturbation. Hormones that are released or not released in each instance...

He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.


see tosfos gitin 6b zvuv about mazon and znus, its mistama not coincidential

He might be comparing the term seviah, but not zan.

My philosophizing is due to my interest in word meanings.


see tosfos gitin 6b zvuv about mazon and znus, its mistama not coincidential

Briut wrote on 29 Jul 2010 14:49:


lo sassuru... asher atem zonim achareihem. The word "Zonim" comes from the word "zan" = "nourish"... Yes, the eye candy feels nourishing, but we are meant to one day 'lizon miziv hashchinah"... and eyes that were zan from lust won't be able to be zan from the ziv hashchinah, which is a much higher and sublime delight. So it's worth holding back!

In the beginning of Sefer Yehoshua, Rashi, The Radak, & The Metzudas, among others, state that Rachav HaZonah was not a prostitute, chas V'sholom. After all, she ended up marrying Yehoshua himself!!!

Rather they translate that she sold food. Mocheres minei mezonos is Rashi's words.

the.guard wrote:


Yosef Hatzadik wrote:

In בראשית לט:ו the Torah refers to אשת פוטיפר as לחם. Rashi says it is a לשון נקיה for wife.

The כלי יקר says something that I always had trouble with:
וקרא לאשתו בכינוי לחם, כי כמו שהלחם משביע לכל חי יותר מן כל דבר הזן, כך בעילות של היתר משביעים אותו אבר- לאפוקי בעילות של איסור אינן משביעים, כארז"ל אבר קטן משביעו רעב
Loosely translated: a wife is referred to through the euphemism of "bread", because just as bread satisfies more than any other food, so too, permitted intimacy (with one's wife) satisfies a person. In contrast, with prohibited forms of sexual relations, the rule is-as our sages say- the more you feed it the more it goes hungry.

I had major trouble with this כלי יקר on many fronts:
1) is bread really the most satisfying food? What percentage of the trillion dollar food industry is bread?
2) is sex with one's wife really more satisfying than with anyone else? What percentage of the trillion dollar sex industry is intimacy between a man and his own wife?

My bigger question is:
3) how can the כלי יקר say that the rule of our sages that "the more you feed it, the more you need it" only applies to prohibited relationships? One of the places that the gemara mentions this rule is with reference to דוד המלך, and it's clearly talking over there about intimacy with one wife! (I don't have a gemara in front of me, but I think it's Sanhedrin 107a- someone please correct me if I'm off)
The gemara there tells about how דוד knew that he was going to be tested in this area, so he slept with his wife in an attempt to minimize the נסיון. The gemara says that דוד forgot the rule that "the more you feed it, the more you need it", so he actually made it harder on himself. According to the kli yakar, it should have worked like "bread"- it was permitted intimacy!

I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. I have an idea based on what I've learned on this forum, but I haven't seen a מקור for it. Feel free to comment!

I'm assuming that many of you had a similar approach to my question. That is that of course bread (and real kosher intimacy with one's wife) is more satisfying. It doesn't provide the fake "sugar high" that a donut has. It doesn't have the glitz and glamour of "sweet porn" (as Dov would say it).

Anyone who is on this site knows all too well how unsatisfying the junk fast- food fantasy is, as sweet and alluring as it seems at the time. We are often left with that same sick, sick feeling as when we polished off a box of donuts.

Regarding דוד המלך, and I say this with trepidation because I haven't seen a מקור, but perhaps when the kli yakar says that permitted intimacy is satisfying, he doesn't mean all married sex. Maybe it's only if you're totally focused on giving to the other person, then it has that quality.

As pure as Dovid's motivations were, the gemara seems to say that he was trying to use this as a way of "filling himself" to try to minimize the impending nisayon. At Dovid's level, perhaps there was an element of taking rather than giving in intimacy, even though it was with his wife. Perhaps the כלי יקר would say -that's why it didn't work, and it fact it backfired.

Whether this is the accurate פשט or not, the lessons for me are profound. Many of us that are married are very much struggling with making sure not to lust -even after our own wives.

We read some of the bochurim writing about their having an expectation of having a "muttar outlet" once they get married. I'm not here to judge whether that's right or wrong. It just make me want to cry for all of the pain that that future couple might have to go through before he chaps what real intimacy is. It is only once I joined GYE that I began (still got long ways to go) to understand what it really means to be a giver in a relationship, which gave me a little taste of גן עדן

in my humble opinion i think that the kley yokor refers to non permitted relationship with your own wife, like when she is not o.k., or in forms how she does not appreciate it, these type of s*x does not satisfy your hunger it only makes it more hungry, in contrast to normal permitted relationship and in a way where she enjoys it, gives both sides great satisfaction
does that make any sense?

There is one more piece to this כלי יקר that is terrifying and unfortunately very relevant to some of us:

ולכך אמרו רז"ל כל הבא על אשה זונה לסוף מבקש ככר לחם ואינו מוצא שנאמר כי בעד אשה זונה עד ככר לחם. וענשו מדה כנגד מדה לפי שעזב את אשתו שנקראה לחם ודבק בזונה שאינה לחמו, על כן יחסר לחמו.

> I am not a נביא, and I do not appreciate when people think they know exactly why הקב"ה runs the world the way he does. However, it would behoove me to take lessons for myself in noticing patterns in my life. We know that one of the reasons why hashem does things מדה כנגד מדה is to aid us in recognizing those patterns and hopefully learning from it.

I know that some of us have struggled with "putting bread on the table". Although nothing is so simple, I hear from this kli yakar that part of my Hishtadlus in earning more "bread", is to view and treat my wife as the only and most satisfying thing for me.

The paradox is, that the only way I will ever be really satisfied, is by not focusing at all on my own satisfaction, rather being totally focused on giving to her. If my giving is conditional - expecting something in return, I will go hungry.

I also don't have the Gemarah in front of me, but my recollection is that, in the incident referred to, the Gemarah says that Dovid HaMelech had relations with one of his wives during the day. Maybe that was the Tzad issur she'bo (although, technically speaking, Dovid surely did no issur, considering that there are ways to have relations by day in a permissible manner).

I had prepared a long reply for this one but it got lost somehow (my fault always).

In my small view, what the Kli Yakar means by כך בעילות של היתר is real relationship and love, that husband and wife should have for each other that goes far beyond bodily connection, although it does have a physical touch, but the bonding reaches higher levels. (which some of us don't even know what it is at all).

To that some of us here can attest that: by giving in to our lust desires and fantasies elsewhere or even with our spouses if done in our selfish way just to fulfill our desires the way we viewed it in the dark world, "we will NEVER be satisfied enough".

I am sure there is a Mekor for this, although we don't need one (it's a fact) I will let the experts deal with that.

since the experts haven't responded [ they normally don't when called experts] i found a mekor that chasing after our desire will never satisfy us.

ספר מבחר הפנינים מד - שער הפרישות מעולם הזה

(כה) ואמר דמיתי האדם בבקשת העולם כצמא שהגיע אל מים מלוחים כל אשר שתה מהם הוסיף צמאו
From rabbi shlomo ben yehudah ibn gabirol circa 1020: [found on bar-ilan].

gibbor120 wrote:


Can you elaborate please, or provide a source?
I am not questioning; I am curious.
Is there a difference between intimacy with one's wife and cohabitation with a forbidden woman?

Beshalach-Shabbos SHIRA tuf shin ayin alef


KEEP ON TRUCKING

By:bardichev

This dvar Torah is dedicated to my good chver Zemiros Shabbos

May he see bracha vihatazlacha in all his endeavors

The place:Somewhere near Egypt

The time:chol hamoed
Pesach

The yidden are trapped in the deset

The Egyptian Cavalry all of it and all their legions. The entire Egyptian army are bearing down on the Jews
The jews are between a rock and a hard place

The only place they can go is forward

Slight issue homo-sapians are not amphibians.

What is there to do

No retreat
No where to turn

So the Jews do what Jews always do they pray!

Gevaldiggggg??

Nisht!

Hashem says why are you screaming

??

Speak to the people and tell them to get moving

YAYISOO-ee (vayisa-uu)

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!

Fregt bards

What was wrong with prayer?

There is  a huge lesson here

Huge

When facing a personal challenge

We can't say

I tried

I cried

I prayed

No no no

Do something posotive

Drive forward

Even if it means jumping into the sea

Vayisa-uu!!

Too often I see here on the forum. People are haunted by their own demons

Leave them behind you!! Ayyy they are chasing you?! Just keep on trucking!

Of course tefilla!but like Hashem says tefilla plus action

Like the Rupshotzers kugel

The rupshizer roov reb naftali horovitz talmid of the (chozeh)Lubliner

His rebbetzin was a bit stingy but a big tzaddekes

So she made a small kugel one potato. A small onion.  She put it in the oven. Took out her tehillim and began to daven that the kugel should "gelung"

While she was davening. The rebbe. Grabbed a sack of potatoes some huge onoins a dozen eggs. A jug of oil. Salt feffer ahhh

He added his rebbetzin bite size kugel to a huge kugel for all the chassidim

The rebbetzin finishes davening

Looks into the oven and beams as she says ,
Naftali lOok my tefilla worked!

The rebbe says "yes your tefilla along with my massim tovim"




Keep on trucking


With

All

The

Love

In

The

World

H&H

bardichev

Good Shabbos

Parshas Beshalach:


Haym ra'ah vayanos.
Mah ra'ah? Arono shel Yosef ra'ah. _(Midrash)

Is that what the sea was afraid of? A few old bones in a box??

The see was afraid of Atzmas Yosef - that atzmius of Yosef - the essence of yosef!! The sexual purity of Yosef Hatzadik that Klal Yisroel had within themselves!!!


A baal keri needs to immerse himself in the waters of a mikvah. The Yidden were soooo far removed from that, that not only did they not need to immerse themselves in the water. The water actually FLED when the Yidden entered the seabed!!!!

;D

I the Janitor of the Beis Medrash have the Power to clean up the garbage as I have already started to do & will continue to at 6pm EST so that those who choose can clean up there own shmutz.

Rabeinu Guard is doing an outstanding job personally getting involved in making sure we can all get along so that we can win this battle we are all fighting for.

Perhaps this story can help.

A Non Religious Jew once asked I think it was Reb Amnon Yitzchak. (He might of been asking it sarcastically) he said "I want to become frum but I don't know what sect to choose!"

1st you have Sfardim, Ashkanazim & Mizrachim

Then you have with in them you have so many other sects and everyone has their own way!

So how do I choose?

So he gave this gr8 comparison.

Rav Amnon Yitzchak asks him, The Army! They have Ground Troops, the Navy the Air Force, Comandos, Seals, Yasam, Golani, and so on. why so many different types? who are the ones that can win the war those are the ones we need! forget about the rest! Which one is the right one?!

The answer is we need them all! Everyone fights in there own way and together only together but every one with their own tactics can they win! you just have to see in what section of the army you can fight best & that's were you belong.

The Nimshal is obvious! We need the Sfardim, Ashkenazim, Mizrachim, Chasidim, Litvaks, Derech of Simche the Derech of Yireh, Torah, Tefila, Taharah & Yes Even the 12 steps, Evereyone in their own way with their own Tactics.

There's only one important thing to remember at the end of the day.

"We Are All Fighting For One Chief & Commander!"

"We Are All Here To Follow His Will!"

Also, I heard a great vort about Krias Yam Suf.

1) Why was it that the sea was split into 12 Separate lines one for each Tribe?
2) & if it was already Separated then why were the walls Crystal Clear so was one tribe able to look into the others?

The Answer is Gevaldig!

We all have are own Derech that we have to follow & not Budge from it! But! But! But! We have to see that the others also have a derech and they too have a Nosi Leading them & that Nosi is Following Toras Moshe MiSinai that Moshe Rabeinu got directly from Hashem!

So, I think that the message is loud & clear "Harbei Drachim La'Mokoim!"

So even if we disagree with one another on what Approach works in this fight, there's no need to get all Heated up or and using Hurtful words. WE CAN SAY THE SAME EXACT THINGS WITHOUT THE EXCITEMENT THAT COMES ALONG WITH IT & without getting PERSONAL.

Yes!
Efshar Letaken

Another point, is the words of the Gra zl in even shleima that Torah alone doesn't purify at all without the right mindset, it can even do the opposite

The heads of the reform movement knew more Torah than all of us put together...

To be continued another time

 The Gemoroh in Kidushin 30b says בראתי...ואם אתם עוסקים בתורה אין אתם נמסרים בידו…  -Hashem said to Am Yisroel “I created the y”h and I created The Torah as a “spice” for him. If you are involved with the Torah you will not be given over in to the hands of the y”h”. The questions I want to discuss are: (1) What’s the y”h? (2) What does a “spice” mean? (3) What does it mean to be involved? (4) What is the Torah? (5) What does “you will not be given over in to his hands” mean? And of course, why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

Similarly, Chazal tell us that the Torah improves your personality in every way and to a very great extent (see Pirkei Avos 6’1). But Chazal also tell us that one who learns Torah and doesn’t act properly makes a great chilul Hashem. In light of everything that the Torah is supposed to do to a person, how is it possible to not act properly if you learn Torah?

The Zohar Hakodosh says that all the mitzvohs are meant to save us from the y”h. Why does it often seem that it doesn’t work?

The posuk says כל מצותיך אמונה. One of the meanings of this posuk is that all mitzvohs bring us to Emunah. Why does it often seem that they don’t? [This is very important to us because Emunah is the key to braking out of the y”h’s clutches.]

What comes first, action or intention? In other words which one is the cause and which one is the effect?

The Arizal says that if you learn Torah without first doing Teshuva then the Torah could actually c”v make you worse. How can that be if the Torah is supposed to be what brings a person to teshuva?

I think if we answer the first 5 questions, the rest will be answered automatically. First, what is the y”h? In order to answer that, we need to know what we would be like without the y”h. {The question of whether the y”h is an angel or a part of us, is not relevant to our discussion.}

Without the y”h we would automatically gravitate only towards Hashem and automatically keep all the mitzvohs, because that’s the very essence of our soul. We would automatically run from lust more than from physical death. Not just from sin, but from all lust, because by definition any other desire is a contradiction to our desire for Hashem. Any other desire causes a separation between us and Hashem which by definition is a separation between us and everything good. In fact it’s a separation between us and The very Source of our existence. The threat of a separation between us and Hashem is a much more serious threat than any threat to our physical existence. We therefore would not have “bechira” because there wouldn’t be anything to choose about.

The y”h has what would seem like an impossible job. He has to somehow confuse us so badly, to the point that we could actually want to do things that are much more damaging to ourselves than physical death. That’s quite a task! So how in the world can he accomplish this?

He accomplishes it by perverting the very desire-for-Hashem itself. He concentrates on the desire that we feel, while covering up the Object of our desire. He confuses us about the void that we feel. He tells us that it’s a need for lust when really it’s a need for Hashem.

And how does he do all this? By making us think that we have our own separate existence that is not dependant on Hashem. By convincing us, that we are something else other than a “shli’ach”- emissary of Hashem. This delusion is called גיאות and is the source of sources of all sin, all faults of character and all negative emotions.{R’ Tzadok Hacohen in Tzidkas Hatzadik discusses all this}If a person realizes that he is nothing but an emissary of Hashem Himself, there’s absolutely no room for arrogance, low self esteem, self consciousness or anything else negative.

Once he gets us to c’v sin, it causes a separation between us and Hashem and between our pnimius and our chitzonius. This in turn makes his job much easier, because that separation makes us not see who we really are. It in turn causes our lives to be full of frustration, anxiety etc. Deep in our heart we know that this whole mess is caused by a “lack of Hashem” but the y”h continues to delude us. In addition (and it says in seforim that this is the main part) he uses the sin to “prove” to us that we are not really connected to Hashem at all, but rather we are c”v connected to the “opposite side.” In addition he tells us that now Hashem is disgusted by us, so whatever connection there may have been before the sin, is definitely gone by now.

He goes on to explain that the only realistic way to fill the void is with lust. We get easily fooled because the lust provides immediate relief (for at least a second) while getting close to Hashem takes time and work. The cycle continues and his job gets easier and easier. (1) In answer to the first question, the y”h is the force that pulls us away from Hashem and towards other desires by confusing us with delusions.

So now Hashem says that He provided a remedy (a spice). This does not mean that if we choose that we don’t want to do a particular “aveiroh” then we should throw the Torah at him. (2) Rather it’s a remedy against the whole confusion that the y’h causes. If you want to think straight and get rid of the fallacies of the y”h, that can be accomplished through Torah.

(3) The way it’s accomplished through Torah is by being involved in Torah. One who is involved in the Torah is connecting with Hashem actively with a greater connection than any connection found in the physical world between any two things. (Nefesh Hachaim shaar 4 perek 6 and Tanya perek 5, It’s worth learning it before the next time you learn Torah) If you are involved with Hashem [as explained in those sources] by definition you can’t also be involved with lust. The two are mutually exclusive.

(4) But we need to know what the Torah is. A person has the ability to separate the Torah from Hashem. This is called learning מן השפה ולחוץ.  That means that he doesn’t want to connect to the spirit of the Torah but rather he’s only interested in the Torah as a science. He prefers to remain connected to “the other side” although he may very well be desperately trying to stop sinning. Not only will the Torah not help, it will make things worse (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 5 and Ba’er Heitiv O’CH siman 571 s”k 1)He must realize that the Torah is Dvar Hashem and connecting with Torah is connecting with Hashem, and disconnecting from foreign desires.

If someone learns Torah with the spirit of  Hashem in mind and he wants to change direction and turn away from lust and towards Hashem, then the Torah will accomplish exactly that. (5) That’s what it means “you will not be given over in to his hands”- he will no longer be able to delude you in to directing all your energy towards destroying yourself, by distancing yourself from Hashem. Instead you’ll direct all that energy to connecting with Hashem – The Source of all good, all pleasure and all happiness!

[There are other prerequisites for “Torah tavlin” (like not speaking loshon horoh) but for the most part, once you have the right attitude everything else will work out. A very basic prerequisite is Emunah in the power of Torah to change you. R’ Tzvi Meir says (in the name of the Besh’t the Chasam Sofer and others) that very often the y”h knows that he can’t weaken our Emunah in the Torah. So he tells us that Chazal were talking only about people who are on a high level. But when we learn, it’s not the real thing so it can’t really change us. This is a tremendous pitfall, because if we have Emunah in the power of our Limud Hatorah it will definitely change us totally.]

The above applies –of course-also to all other remedies (like Tefiloh, Mitzvohs, mikveh etc.) The Rishonim (Chinuch, Chovos Halvovos and Rambam) taught us that the way we act affects us greatly. Just as intention leads to action, so to does action lead to intention. If Emunah and being close to Hashem make us do mitzvohs, then doing mitvohs makes us have Emunah and brings us close to Hashem. But only if we want to be close to Hashem; and that means to want to drop all foreign desires.

Practically speaking, how do we make sure that we have the right attitude? If we sunk so low, how do we make sure that we “want” to change? This is an old problem and the answer is to be found in the famous words of Hoshe’a Hanavi (14, 2-3) שובה ישראל עד ד' אלוקיך....קחו עמכם דברים.... “Return, Yisroel, [all the way back] until Hashem your G-d for you have stumbled in your sins. TAKE WITH YOU WORDS…"  We need to speak it out with Hashem (see the commentaries on this posuk) R’ Pinkus used to say that the most basic prerequisite for sholom bayis [between Hashem and us] is open communication. We need to say to Hashem "אלכה ואשובה אל אישי הראשון. No more cheating on You, no more foreign desires, I want only You and nothing else". By saying it on a regular basis, we start to feel it more and more.

But the Seforim Hakidoshim (Nefesh Hachaim ibid perek 7 among others) give an even more immediate solution. Each time you’re about to learn Torah; before you start, take a couple of minutes to speak to Hashem. Say to Him: “I have sinned but I deeply regret it. I have been fooled by the y”h in to straying, but really all I want is You. Please take pity on me that the Torah should not c”v be considered like the Torah of a rasha. Rather it should change me like only the Torah can, it should bring me close to you and the fire of Torah should burn up all garbage that I absorbed. Please help me remember what learning Torah is all about and save me from the y”h who works tirelessly to make me forget all these things. Etc…”  

To sum up, there are two things we need to do in order for these things to work.

1) We need to understand what it is that we should want it to do for us.

2) We need to speak it out with Hashem both in general and particularly before Learning Torah.

Hashem should take pity on us and all of Klal Yisroel and take us out of the darkness; both the darkness of our private golus and the darkness of the general galus and we should all be zocheh very, very soon to see אור חדש על ציון תאיר במהרה בימינו

Saw a wonderful vort from Rabbi Zilberstein this past Shabbos (Borchi Nofshi - Parshas Pekudai):

Reb Zilberstein brings down a shaila from Reb Yehoshua Karlinsky who asks on the Rambam which says (Ishus Perek 15 Halacha 19) that a person has to love his wife like himself ("k'gufo").  What chiddush is the Rambam adding when he says "love your wife like yourself" there is a mitzvah to love everyone like yourself.  Reb Zilberstein says the question was asked to Reb Chaim Kanievski who answered as follows:

The Gemara in Nidah 16b says:

אמר רבי שמעון בן יוחאי ארבעה דברים הקב"ה שונאן ואני איני אוהבן הנכנס לביתו פתאום ואצ"ל לבית חבירו

There are four things that Hashem hates and I don't love them. 

Says Reb Chaim Kanievsky, that from the perspective of V'Ahvta Lrayacha Komocha there is no obligation to love a person who does one of these things.  But that is only when it comes to other people.  When a person is dealing with one's wife even if she does things that Reb Shimon Ben Yochai says he doesn't love a person who does those things, it is only to exempt them from the mitzvah of V'Ahvta, a person still has an obligation under the chiyuv to love your wife "K'gufo" to love her notwithstanding her doing these things.  This stems from the obligation of  וידעת כי שלום אהלך a person must do whatever it takes to insure that there is sholom in his home.