Lo savi toevah el beisecha.
the Be'er Maym Chaim explains al pi drush that the 'toevah' is referring to midos ra'os, and although at times, one needs to use anger or honor or brazenness, but not "el beisecha.' It cannot enter into the chadrei chadarim of a person; it is only superficial.

A prorn addict like myself doesn't need to resort to drush to understand this passuk.

shlomo613 wrote:


Why? you only use porn outside of your house?
I guess it is like those who observe 'kosher' in their house only.

I wish I could say I was that religious.
In fact, I will not be seen with it in public; my house is not kosher.

(NB That was semi in jest. I do try - but the above was true for too long, and is liable to revert at the flick of a switch. Or the click of a mouse.)

There is a Gemara that is often quoted that says that  דיינו שמגדלות בנינו ומצילות אותנו מן החטא and Rashi explains that מן החטא is referring to הרהור עבירה.
Many people feel that from this gemora we see that somehow just being married can save one from hirhur aveira. 
The obvious question is that the balabatim section of gye is very busy. Somehow the gemara skipped on all of us. 
However, after just coming across the gemora again, I realized that there indeed is a simple pshat - one that is indeed discussed often on the balabatim section of gye. 
The actual gemora starts off with a story, indeed the story is a prerequisite to understandig the gemara. 
The Gemara in Yevamos at the end of daf .סג discusses that Rav Chiya's wife would cause him alot of grief. In the context, it seems like he had it tough. The Gemara continues that Rav Chiya had a habit in which upon finding somthing appropriate for his wife, he would wrap it up in his handkerchief and bring it to her. 
Rav asked him about this habit. He said to Rav Chiya, "your wife drives you nuts, [so why are you going out of your way to bring her things]" To which Rav Chiya replied "It is enough that she raises our children and saves us from sin [sinful thoughts]" 

I was thinking that we see something very profound here. I believe that the fact that Rav Chiya was bringing her presents and the fact that she saved him from sinful thoughts are connected. As is discussed here often, Rav Chiya was taking care of his side of the street. He was constantly giving and looking for things that his wife would appreciate. He was not expecting anything in return (Otherwise he should have answere Rav, "Maybe if I bring her presents she will stop driving me nuts). He appreciated her for the good that he experienced in the relationship (raising his children and saving him from sin) and focused on that. 
{It is fair to assume that if this was his attitude outside the bedroom, then this was his attitude inside the bedroom. I have seen in a choshuve sefer, that the whole concept of guarding from sin only helps when once approached the mitzva of onah from a proper attitude. (Perhaps this works emotionaly perhaps spiritually- as a reward mida keneged mida) }
al kol panim, we can learn from Rav Chiya the importance of focusing on giving, with no expectations in return. Once we accomplish that we may discover that marriage can help us to avoid sin, (may we be zoche to understand that part of the equation one day.) but until we get over our selfishness, and start focusing on our wives, there is no kasha from the gemara. 

We see from this that the same woman that can be the worse wives can also be the best wives. And as the gemara answers it can change quickly from mood to mood. 
Another point I see from this gemara is that based on the gamara's answer we see that the definition of being more bitter than death has to do with the wife being angry. I have seen several times on gye, that people's wives being angry can be a trigger to go escape and act out. It was for me. 
We see that the gemara is validating that the feelings one has when a wife is angry, is indeed more bitter than death. (Apparently we see as well that it is something specific to a wife being angry as opposed to a different relative, a friend, neighbor or boss being angry) 
So yes, it is a difficult thing to experience, but remember, the same wife can also be a source of gratification. Perhaps we can't all apease out wives easily, but there is always hope that the source of terrible bitterness, can turn into the source of gratification.

Question: chovos halevavos shaar habitachon perek gimmel.

He writes that one should be mechaven lisheim shamayim by mitzvos/obligations in this world, such as workin' the land, usin' animals for sustenance. Then he says: and also to "use" women, cohabit with them and make lots of babies. What is this usage of women that he's referrin' to?

Thanks Cords for bringing to light this thread that was dormant for three long years. 
Great Stuff!

yiraishamaim wrote on 09 May 2019 13:42:

Pleasure, but that doesn't answer the question.

Nice to see/hear you though.

cordnoy wrote on 09 May 2019 01:40:

Can you quote the original Hebrew?
(I'm too lazy to look it up...)

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 09 May 2019 16:19:

How?

Type it?

Take a pic? AlthoughI this editor probably wouldn't allow that, as it's in wonky state.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 09 May 2019 16:19:


ולהשתמש בנשים ולבעול אותן להרבות הזרע.....

Ok I looked it up online but I can't cut/paste it from there. In the context I would say that a more accurate translation would be "to make use of" rather than "to use", which doesn't have the same negative connotation that you are inferring. He is just saying that when one uses the things that Hashem provided in this world for their proper purpose he should have in mind that he is doing Ratzon Hashem.



Also keep in mind that the Sefer was originally written in Arabic and later translated to Hebrew.

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 09 May 2019 16:52:

Our Muslim brothers have a tradition to keep the original text and burn all others.
Its in their Ani Maamin b’olam haba text too, for those that are in the know. 

hi
pretty certain it means that we are supposed to focus our energy and effort to be intimate with our wives in order to have children, who ultimately grow up as shomrei torah mitzvos, and can bring more nachas ruach to Avinu Shebashamyim.

we can use every character trait to achieve greatness!