Welcome. You're in the right place.

First of all please take time to read through the GYE handbook.  No two people are the same, everyone has a slightly different set of circumstances, but we all share this problem and since we share the problem we can share the solution too. The book is written in a general way so it can apply to everyone. I found it helpful to really think about what the book was saying and how it applied to me and my own life.

This is a very common problem nowadays, you're far from the only one to deal with it. The word addict gets thrown around quite a lot, but most people who struggle with this issue are not addicts, just normal people with a normal yetzer hora. Which is good. Some people have come to realise that they really are addicts because their situation got gradually worse and worse despite working on it. When I say worse I mean, in frequency, severity or just feeling worse after every slip. If that is the case we may need more than GYE, which most people find to be therapy or SA or both. But I wouldn't jump to that conclusion about you. Many people have overcome this challenge right here on GYE using the tools in the handbook.

So stick around. Keep posting, keep reading and keep on trucking.

SD
read the intro omg sounds like you hate yourself DON'T i too was in a similar sit. not that i was the top bachur/avriech  but was still respected

i too am very sensitive (look at the thread on 90 days going to make it b"h) probably bec. i'm insecure do to being bullied/picked on and totally agree that this addiction exacerbates it to a whole knew level.

one thing i can say from experience is that if you have a rebbe mashgiach or the like that you are close with maybe he will think differently of you maybe not but my experience is that only respect will come from this (and if you don't get a scholarship or whatever is that worth not getting the help)
not saying it's easy but for me it was definitely woth having a rebbe to go to when needed (and yes i have posted on my thread that it bothers me that my rebbe is hard on me but could be that is my sensitive side feeling that (i.e. y"h) or he feels that's the best for me as he knows me and my family VERY well.

just some thoughts of what works for me

B'hatzlacha (formally czworking)

I would recommend reading Dr Sorotzkin (there's a link to his website in my signature).  He has a very good article on the psycological factors of acting out, and also on perfectionism, if it applies to you.  You clearly have issues that need to be dealt with.  You are clearly suffering and reaching out for help.  Reaching out will be painful, no doubt.  But, not reaching out will ultimately be more painful.

No one wants to ask for help.  I can totally relate to wanting to uphold your image.  But, this is clearly tearing you apart.  I implore you to get help.  It will be painful, but it will be worth it.

Please keep in touch, and let us know how you are doing.  Please let us know if you decide to tell your rebbi, go to therapy, or what path you chose.  You clearly need help of some sort.  Please don't be satisfied with posting here.  Please speak to a real person that can offer real help.

I would also recommend reading some of the dov quotes (also in my signature) and even perhaps reaching out to Dov.

I wish you all the best.  It is possible to heal.  But, at least in my case, healing required dropping the facade, and being willing to feel a bit vulnerable.  To be honest.  To open up.  It is NOT easy.  It IS worth it!

Appreciated the feedback. Bhatzlacha in your struggle and hopefully you hit 90!

Thank you so much! I will keep you posted!

Brother can you use the 'quote' button and then comment on any post you like so the convo flows

KEEP ON TRUCKING!!

Souldoctor wrote on 04 Jan 2017 17:39:

Very powerful admissions, bro. Your story is the ultimate archetype! We have a new GYE poster child!!

The one thing I really regret is not sharing with a rebbe. I understand your prominent position and how much more difficult it is for you. I was a nebach in Yeshiva, barely a year. and I would p and m and maybe a little s. that's right. I was PMS-ing the whole time!!! (No wonder I was so irritated about everything)

But all I told my rebbe is that sometimes I had wet dreams. AH! Talk about sweeping the issues under the carpet. I wish I had the resolve I think I have now, and put that into motion 5-6 years ago. I would have told him what I'm dealing with. He would have helped me. Simple as that.

So practically if you did open up, what backlash would you expect? I love running. And Because I'm in SAA and working the 12 steps, I really derive more spiritual lessons from things I do. BH I'm training myself to have a keener sense of things. And so when I'm running and all that's beyond me is some massive uphill and my legs are burning, and sure sometimes you can turn into a side road and run flat for a while, pulling back into the uphill trudge somewhere else, give your legs a break for a bit, but sometimes you can't. And sometimes you just have the hill to beat and the pain to deal with. And there's no turning back. And you just have to deal with the pain. And that's life. Sometimes you just have to sit with the pain. 
But it won't last forever. And then you're on top of the hill. And you can go anywhere.

Think about it. Hope it helps somewhat.

Welcome,

You do sound torn inside.
Letting it out to someone helps wonders.
 sometimes it helps to view this as a disease and not as an aveirah.
Every time I worked the 12 steps, the number one killerI for me was ego. That is what I needed to work on. The more I didI that, the more I was entrenched in recoveryI.

B'hatzlachah

cordnoy wrote:

II Ihear AndI nowI yourI phoneI hasI Ithe IIIIegoIIII bugI

Gye can't fix your ego but your phone's it can (hope#)fully

gibbor120 wrote on 04 Jan 2017 22:40:

Hi all,
Firstly, would like to thank everyone who has reached out. It's amazing to be able to see a chevra that are so devoted to helping others. Yasher Kochichem! I checked out some of Dr. Sorotzkin's articles, I thank you for them! They fuse Torah and Psychology in a nice way, that reverberates with someone like me who truly enjoys learning but also appreciates modern day psych, and likes to see them working in tandem as opposed to clashing with each other. 

A short thought on the Seidra. We know that the story of Yosef and his brothers covers a significant portion of Sefer Bereishis. For us strugglers, a critical story that we can deeply empathize with is the encounter of Yosef and the wife of Potiphar. Chazal say that what stopped Yosef from sinning was that he saw the image of his father. Tosphos however in Sotah asks if Yosef looked exactly like Yaakov, then the image that he saw wasn't of his father but of himself. What value chevra, would there be if Yosef simply saw the image of himself, what are Chazal trying to tell us? I heard from a prominent Rav the following. Often when we fall, (and as I have described in my intro, this happens to me often), it starts by us doing something "semi-inapropriate" like seeing an image that isn't fully pritzus, but isn't fully tzinus. We then tell ourselves, that since we already are "tamei" as we looked at that image when we shouldn't have, we are "sinners" "we have already fallen" and we might as well go all the way. When Chazal tell us that Yosef saw the image of Yaakov, which was really the image of himself, what they're trying to tell us is that Yosef realized that even though he had already started down the path towards sin (especially according to the opinion that says that he came to the house, to sin that day) the "image of Yosef" was still there, it wasn't tainted, and the reason why Yosef is Yosef Hatzadik  is because he still saw the pure image of himself in the window, i.e. he refused to allow the Yetzer Hara to trick him and say "you've already done something wrong Yosef, you might as well go all the way". Rather he still saw the image of Yosef, and said to himself, I might have done a bit wrong, but that doesn't mean I need to keep going. It takes a true tzaddik to say that!

Markz wrote on 05 Jan 2017 13:56:

Four questions that I want to throw out there, would love to hear personal anecdotes or advice from your own experience:

1) how do you deal with facing the fact that so many years of your life have been wasted doing these aveiros?

2) Similarly, how does one face the enormity of one's sins, like how does one even begin to do teshuva, to comprehend what one has done and the cost it has had on their spiritual growth?

3) As I said in my intro, and as I'm feeling right now on day 2 being clean, usually after a fall, (unless its been a while and I binge) its easy to be "clean" for a few days, but after a while, the "guilt" of the last fall wears off and the yetzer hara begins to seduce again, how do you fight the yetzer hara, without the "immediate feelings of guilt" present?

4) To those of you who have ever made it to 90 days, did you feel significantly different? And if so, why did you fall again? 

Thanks
SD

Souldoctor wrote on 05 Jan 2017 17:55:

Hi SD, (sounds almost like sg)
I  can't speak for question number four, since I've yet to get there, but numbers 1 and 2 are similar. The first step of teshuva - really the pre-step is stopping (azivas h'chait). To do that, I've found (after a lot of battling it) that it's completely not helpful to think about the past.     Yes, I've done avairos and yes I hope and davin that Hashem will give me the opportunity one day to do proper teshuva,   but first, I have to stop! and I can't stop when I'm bogged down by the guilt of what I've done. So, I'm not pretending that the past didn't happen, I hope that I can deal with it when I'm sober, but right now, it is not what I should be focusing on. It doesn't help me, and that really brings to your question number 3. For me, the "immediate feelings of guilt" really don't help as a deterrent, because as you wrote - they wear off (pretty quick). I need other methods for helping me to keep clean.

Hope this helps some, because it has helped me a lot.

kot
sg

Dang. I wrote a whole post with answers, but didn't know how to intersperse them without using the "source" code button. Then when I hit it again, I lost my whole post! UGH! I never got the new method where you don't see the tags. Tags are better in my opinion. GUARD, are you listening?!

So, after that rant, I'll try again...
Souldoctor wrote on 05 Jan 2017 17:55:

I don't. That is not your main avodah right now. It will not help you in any way.


Same as #1. Has guilt helped you in the past?


Again, you are relying on "guilt" to help you "fight" this. Don't you see that this is not working?


90 days is not magic. I think the idea is just that it is hard to work on recovery while acting out. Giving yourself a goal, helps to stop for a time while you work on recovery. If you do not work on recovery, I don't think 90 days does much at all. I did 90 days a few times as a bachur, way before I found this site. But, I couldn't stay sober, and I would always act out again, and it kept getting progressively worse.

For many of us, the problem is a "living" problem. Acting out is our "solution" to that problem (albeit a bad one). Until we come up with a better solution, we will be stuck with the one solution we know and love.... and hate at the same time

Souldoctor wrote on 05 Jan 2017 17:55:


1) either i dont think about it or i like at it as a rung on the ladder to keep climbing with if i can't use it to grow then i'm not ready to deal with it and "ignore" it for the time being.

2)i talk to a rebbe or wife get the chizuk i need then learn and understand the avierah then back to #1

3)i use the guilt till it don't work no more then call on the gye family for support ideas ... to keep going
this time i also have my wife helping me keep up my spirits.

4)have not made it yet to 90 but like others have already said it's not the end goal just another tool to keep me going and set me on the right path.

B'hatzlacha

Souldoctor wrote on 05 Jan 2017 17:55:

1. I don't.

2. I don't and don't care. I can't care. It will stunt my recovery as an addict.

3. If one focuses on guilt or shame of the sin, it is a question without a legitimate answer. I focused on improvement in my lifeI.

4. Don't remember. Probably felt good, for GYE makes such a big deal out of it. What does feelin' good have to do with fallin' again? Fallin' feels so much better.