There is also the element of what is productive for the people who frequent this site to hear.

                                                                                                                                                                           

                                                             

ieeyc wrote on 18 Jan 2018 18:32:

In degree, maybe. And either is dishonorable and wrong. But calling it rape is a bit overboard I think. Unless physical force (or threats of) is used.

                                                                                                                                                                             

ieeyc wrote on 18 Jan 2018 18:39:

Not from this moderator.

IfIf I would delete stupid posts, I'd need to spend much more time here. In my years of moderation, I have hardly deleted any posts. I like this to be a free and open society, where people are not afraid to speak their mind. I'd much rather leave a post, and if I think the advice, attitude, suggestions, etc. are unhealthy or detrimental, I will speak my mind.

God speed to all!

Gevura Shebyesod wrote on 18 Jan 2018 18:50:

My experience is that what's going on in my head that is driving my reaction is what counts. (This is assuming a baseline that there is no physical coercion which is the classic definition of rape.)
If I am feel resentment that intimacy didn't happen, that's my clue that I'm in the wrong headspace. Any consequent action I take, whether it's cajoling, seducing, sweet-talking, or sulking - is wrong. It's not an act of love, it's an act of selfishness.
Maybe one day I can talk about taking similar actions that are generated by more wholesome motivations, but I'm not there yet. I'd hope there are people in 2018 who can be mefayes their wives when she isn't in the mood because it's a mitzvah, or good for their  relationship, or some other healthy reason, but that's not for me to post about.

sounds like there is a issue of semantics here
ones or mefateh they're bothy not good

I think this is getting way too complicated. The way one very reputable therapist told it to me- and he’s a talmid chacham par exellence as well- the idea of piyus is often that they aren’t so in the mood and you get them to be in the mood.

There are plenty of people who can cajole and it is good for both of them- where there’s a humorous aspect to it, where the wife feels desired, and where even if she knows he’s interested physically she’s appreciative that he has desire for her and is happy to participate.

There are plenty of normal marriages where that is the case. 

For some people here that it toxic. For some, they feel it isn’t the highest level they can be.

But don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be. 

Workingguy wrote on 21 Jan 2018 14:35:

We need a Tread called "Confusing Words"

To you cajoling means one thing - I assure you many people don't understand it that way

Why does there need to be a humorous aspect to it?
Why does the wife need to feel desired?
If she's cajoled to be willing and wasn't forced - isn't that also included?

From my understanding this is where cordnoys confusing word "raping" comes in here.

The lines are blurred... who's gonna take the bold step and start that thread?

You can start with the word "addict". 2 weeks ago I fell after 160 days and got an automated email from GYE I should consider if I'm an addict - although according to the definition of addict I don't believe I am...

@Markz,
I was going to open the thread, but out of respect for you and abstained. I know you don't like when people just keep opening threads and recommend sticking to one thread...

lionking wrote on 21 Jan 2018 15:15:

New threads that will have traction are fine - and you can take the plunge if you like

My above post was made in jest.

I don't pretend to be an authoritative source on linguistics, and am just as confused as you are on a lot of the words which are the jargon over here. Not even sure if I think I am an addict or not, or if I understand what that word is supposed to mean, and for all practical purposes I really don't care.
People definitely use words here, out of context, if you use a Webster's dictionary to define them. Perhaps they are just tryin' to make a point. I can explain what raping means, but I think I might be a little too graphic. Not in the mood to cause anyone any sensitive issues.

Let’s leave cajoling raping etc out of it. In marriage, often one spouse wants to do something- take a walk, go on vacation, see a show to movie, go to a lecture- and they don’t want to do it alone, and they want their spouse to join them. 

Is there an issue if someone’s wife says “Cone with me to the vort, I hate to go alone” “But I’m not so interested” “but do it for me” “ok fine, of course”.

Thats a very normal, healthy part of marriage for normal people. Do something for your spouse if you’re not so in the mood because they want to, and you want to make them happy. Now, should we be the askers of those type of things? In a healthy relationship, the wife wants you to be asking her (not talking about sex) to be there for you.

Sex is only different because so many people aren’t healthy about it, but fundamentally, there is no difference between saying “just come on the walk with me, it’ll be fun” and doing whatever it is we’re discussing here. 
That’s in a normal situation; because people here are addicts, porn watchers, etc there is an element of taking advantage of the other person because we might be doing all sorts of things on the side, that is why it is worse and different.

But we also have to know what’s normal in a healthy marriage and not add guilt where none is due.

You're right that your wife will be more than happy to do you a favor in a healthy relationship if you ask the right way & you give her the option to say no.
But I think sex is more sensitive, as it should be a thing that bring 2 people closer, so if you ask it as a favor she might not like it. Rather try to turn her on by showing her how excited you are about her & how much you want to please her. If it works great, if not maybe you're not doing something right or it's really not the right time.
I can also understand that if a person is open with his wife & tells her, look I have a lust attack and I really want to have sex please help me... That she might understand you and do you the favor, but she will feel like a piece of garbage or worse. And as far as I know, it's not recommended according to halacha & psychology.