Bigmoish wrote:


that was not my intention.

I'm still stickin' to thoughts and fantasies. They are the root issues for me, the starting point. The rest are just results of me succumbing to my thoughts and fantasies. Just my personal feelings. Up for good discussion though.

They were not my starting point (or maybe they were, I don't really remember), they will not be the ending point (I hope), they were not my biggest concern for much of my time here; they are simply my biggest concern right now.

Thoughts and fantasies

cordnoy wrote:


As these votes increase, it intrigues me even more.
While I used to focus on "eyes wanderin' in street," now i focus on thoughts and fantasy.

cordnoy wrote:


I think these are great defining pointers of whether one is an addict or a non addict

Am I making sense?

markz wrote:


I have no idea.
it's probably deeper than that.
I generally shy away from philosophical questions.

markz wrote:


I don't see how it is.

Shlomo,

Someone that HONESTLY votes as
"Trigger-Happy-Finger on Computer"
Id assume belongs to the non addict group, which are accustomed to lust only when challenged

And 'fantasies...' Id think is mostly an addict trait
The other 2 can apply to both, but an addict more, I think.

I have a bigger question, i wanted to ask the great Cordnoy
What was the point of the survey??

markz wrote:


One can fine tune his recovery tactics.

markz wrote:


I wouldn't try to pigeonhole people to being "this" or "that". i am very trigger finger happy on the computer but when i am connected to god i don't look at porn. and many ppl have fantasies even if they aren't addicts. the whole addict/non addict topic (which is a source of great interest to you i gather) is being talked about waaaaay too much on this forum. everyone has their own path of recovery.

Yes, I am quite interested in clarifying the types of addiction, and there are gray areas between, and I'm not the only one to do this on the forum
My purpose is to help myself and others on their journey to recovery, to advise some IF they ask, what steps may be productive for them. There's no one fix for everyone. Correct?

What you said didn't make sense.
Someone that's an addict has greater problems than trigger happy, but when they start recovery everything including trigger happy is relieved - of course!
Fantasizing I'm quite sure is largely an addict problem, you want to research that or should I? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how you define fantasizing. I think it means someone running p**n in their head in regular basis...

Disregard all what I said, lets hear first why Cordnoy created the vote?
מאי נפקא מינה???

markz wrote:


See above.

Nothing to do with addiction.

I have seen many struggle with the "am I an addict" or "am I not an addict" label. (I struggled too). Many "say" it is so that they can use the correct method to "combat" it (addiction or just obsession?). I personally found it useless. I don't think there is a magic label. We are all obsessed/addicted in varying degrees. There are tools to work with. See what works.

The only thing that I think is relevant is for a person to honestly answer is can I control it". If yes, great, so control it.

Many of us have been forced by years of experience to honestly answer "no" I cannot. It controls me, and I don't like it, but I cannot stop either. In that case - seek some help from the "outside". Help cannot be obtained from the "inside" any longer (mussar ect.)

Perhaps I have contradicted myself and also given the definition of addiction. Oh well.

I still don't like the label. I think many people are afraid of the label. Afraid that there is something fundamentally wrong with them if they say "I am an addict". All it means is that you need some help. We all need help at some point.

I think some use the label to hide behind. There is nothing wrong with me. I just have this illness called addiction. I do not like this either. I never liked the "I have an illness" model. It makes addiction sound like catching a cold.

Just rambling. I hope I'm not opening up the proverbial can of worms. This is one of the most often debated topics on GYE.

At the end of the day. Try some tools. See if they work. If not, try more/different tools. Don't think too much. Action is where the "action" is .

Speaking for myself, I did not want to be an addict. I fought against the idea for a long time and it got me nowhere. 'Until I could accept my sexaholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy.'

I think more of a problem is the misuse of the word addict. Not everyone who masturbates or looks at porn more than they'd like is an addict, even if they fight to control it and lose sometimes. Just like not everyone who breaks their diet is a food addict.

As much as I've met SA members who were desperate to not be considered an addict, I've met GYE members who seem desperate to be considered addicts. Makes you think.

I agree with Gibbor. Debate is useless. Actions = results. Start taking action and if one thing doesn't work, step it up a notch, and another and another until you can stop altogether. But this takes honesty. If you are an addict this will become apparent and you may need to join a group. Better than carrying on like the living dead.

But the whole thing depends on honesty. It's not always easy to honestly answer the important questions:

Is what I'm doing working or am I fooling myself?
Do I really want to stop?