Which of these bothers you the most?
Do any of those make your life unmanageable?
Can you live with any of them?
Are you addicted to any?

The Poll question, however, is simply: Which of these are you the 'most' worried about?

[It's also possible that the answer can change in time, based upon many factors.]

Thanks

Worried about the first two but Def more about the first... out of sight out of mind... great thread btw!

I agree with mr. clean. it all starts with not controlling our eyes after that is when everything else becomes a issue.

My addiction is to lust. The above are all forms of lusting.

The poll is rather like asking alcoholics which of these bothers you the most:

-Beer
-Whiskey
-Wine
-Other spirits

It sort of misses the point that they're all addictive because of what's in them. Same thing here.

Watson wrote:


Perhaps...but I hear some subtle differences, but you probably will not agree with them.
The poll helps me, for I know what to be extra vigilant about.
It keeps me in focus.
Durin' my lustful bouts, I could go a week or two w/o bein' mz"l, so if that was my concern, I'd be missin' the boat. If I would simply say "lust," it would be vague somewhat.
That bein' said, I know what you are sayin', for it is the lust inside of us that drives our behavior, and that is our core issue.

In conclusion, the poll is kinda fun, and it puts things into perspective, especially if someone would check any of the others, and for you as well, for it causes you to come out and say that lust is your issue, so good Doc, what da Hell is gonna be with that?

b'hatzlachah

Eyes running around wild is the most bothersome for two reasons one it's the hardest to control for me and two the possuk says אחרי לבבכם ואחרי עיניכם if you don't see the heart has nowhere to direct it's desires but if you see than starts fantasy land

Can I choose "All of the above"?

But seriously I agree with the rest of the voters, the eyes are where it all starts and for me it's definitely the hardest to control. It's the "gateway drug".

There's a reason this place is called "Guard your Eyes" and not "Guard your Fingers" or "Guard your..."

No question its M"Z. Of course the rest are NOT good and if we take a first sip, we are practically done. And i realize that all have them are lusting as the good ol' Doc said but i think masturbating (and etc) is the worst and it puts us further and further down the hole. Even if we look at something its easier (key word eas"ier") to get out of.

Of course this is for my situation. Others are probably different. Keep in mind i use to love soaking in the view of girls, preparing to fantasize later that day.....

Its all poison and we definitely do not need any lust to survive! I'm sure we can all agree with that, if your an addict

R' Avrohom, the problem as I see it, is that it creates a culture of fighting the symptoms. If wandering eyes is the main problem then I should put all my effort into avoiding that. If it's porn then I need to focus on stopping the porn. It does nothing to address the illness, just the symptoms.

I spent years switching my focus. One month it was the idea that porn was the issue, I'll let myself masturbate as long as I don't watch porn. Then it was that masturbation was a more serious issur, so I can look at porn as long as I don't complete masturbation. Then it was that what I do in private is OK, I'll just be completely sober outside. Then it was that if I lust after real girls I wouldn't watch so much porn.

Endlessly addressing symptom after symptom in a never ending cycle. I got to tell you, it was depressing as hell. The sheer futility of it. So much effort and nothing came of it.

Of course everyone knows that lust is the real problem. I wonder sometimes if people know what that actually means. People sometimes pay lip service to the idea while totally disregarding it. "I was lusting after girls on the street all day and then watched porn for 20 minutes, but I didn't act out. Whew, that was a close one!"

As someone said to me a while ago "I didn't act out, I just watched someone else act out." Come on!

Like Sandy B said in AA "I've been sober 30 years and I owe it all to not drinking. That's all it takes. Now the problem is only how can I be happy with not drinking. That's what the program addresses"

Same thing here. It's irrelevant which of the option you gave worry me the most. If I never lusted I would always be sober. It really is that simple. The only actual problem is that sometimes life feels like it's getting too much and I need lust. That's where the real problem lies, and that's what the program and live groups address.

That's one amazing thing a live group offers that you can't get anywhere else. You can share in detail exactly what happened to you that day, how you feel about it and how it can be resolved. Without lust.

But I need that 2 pronged program. First not lusting, and then dealing with life without lust. I can't do one without the other, and I certainly can't stay sober while continuing to lust.

Eyes wandering is the biggest concern along with "mind" wandering which you did not list.

It is my biggest concern because it leads to all the other stuff.

But, there is one step even before that. Addressing RID in a healthy way. Accepting what Hashem gives me. Learning to just let go. Talking to a friend or my wife to vent when I am frustrated so I have a healthy outlet, and I don't need to turn to "wandering".

I agree with what you wrote, and certainly with how it relates to you.

where I see things a bit differently, though, is that the line - durin' the recovery process, does not need to be completely rigid; eventually, we can get to that level, or some level.

that bein' said, if one would simply say that I will not click on anythin' that is triggerable, but he will still continue to lust full-storm ahead - he will not be headin' anywhere, or certainly not towards recovery.

Again - this is an addict discussion.

So, in conclusion of this pesharah (which no matter how I splice it you will not like it), an addicted sick mind - like mine, needs to know that lust must be avoided at all costs, but I feel that i also must know what is the pressure point; what is the trigger? what must be avoided at all costs (even more than the 'at all costs' of beforehand)?

P.s. There is also somethin' that must be said for different addicts. W/o mentionin' names, there are addicts here who cannot stop, or have a tremendous difficulty avoidin' masturbation. While I did plenty of that, I am able to avoid that - as long as I do not engage in stimulatin' stuff. for a long time, i couldn't avoid that. Durin' recovery - i was able to get past that. But then, I had another nisayon so to speak. And that was an emotional/sexual attachment/bond to another woman, and I knew then that although I may ogle a woman in the street, there was no way that I could reach out to this other woman.

You will comment that throughout this process there were some falls, and that is true. That is why i am doublin' and triplin' my recovery activities, but just because the end game is no lust, doesn't mean the process shouldn't be geared or emphasized in one way or the other.

Did that make sense?
I do not know, but I tried.

Thanks chap!

Not sure I followed 100%. One point you did bring up (perhaps inadvertantly) is love addiction vs. sex addiction.

we generally talk here about sex addiction, and I suppose the "love addiction" variety is probably more common among the women, BUT I bet there are a lot of men who have it too.

My therapist claims I have a "relationship addiction."

i voted eyes
but i think i would add an option of "mind wandering"
because that is a weak point on which i work a lot

cordnoy wrote:

I can relate, and I was going to SLAA(sex love addicts anonymous) meetings as well, I finally found my freedom at SAA I only go to primary purpose groups, they focus only on just working the steps described in the BB of AA with a sponsor who had worked the steps him self. I found recovery, a new living a real real good experience