Personally I write most of my posts on a piece of paper, and I get no criticism at all.

cordnoy wrote on 16 Sep 2016 14:51:

What I mean is that this situation isn't an isolated incident. I wouldn't have these feelings of it was a random user. Considering it's waydown there is automatically more to the picture. He went through many different thoughts and processes and wasn't sober. And he came back to tell us that he has crossed red lines. I can see where this is going, and it ain't pretty. I think that practically everyone can also besides him. So when I see self-pity in a post it really gets me. Because it reminds me of what happened in the past. We've talked about this lollipop before. It's not your regular Paskez lollipop, it's a huge, disgusting, lollipop that has been dragged on the floor and doesn't taste good unless you add more sweetener. (I got carried away with the moshul). That's why I don't think you're being realistic. 

In terms of the anonymous part, this is an anonymous forum. Everyone who is a part of it is fully cognizant of that. Yet we are here for a reason. So what are we supposed to do? Make ourselves public! All advice or experience or whatever is of course going to be anonymous! But for me it doesn't make it any less. I'm genuine. I would meet waydown if he wanted to, I would be public if this society we lived in was a utopian society. But it's not and therefore I need to be anonymous. But attributing the adjective "anonymous" to what goes on here means nothing. At least not in my case. Obviously everyone has the right to choose what they are going to listen to and to do research on who it's coming from, but that is also available on this forum. Even though it's anonymous. Al kol panim, what I mean to say is that the fact that this is an anonymous forum is a moot point. The whole basis for this forum is that it is anonymous and when signing up for this forum a person is basically saying that they will take anonymous advice. I hope I was clear. 

Also, I'm going to message Dov and see if he can post on this thread. I would like his input, although I'm pretty sure I know what it's going to be.

Shlomo24 wrote on 17 Sep 2016 01:44:

Which part of what I said is unrealistic?

Shlomo24 wrote on 17 Sep 2016 01:44:

Regarding anonymous.....

Maybe people accept to take advice or not....waydown initially didn't want advice and people still shoved things down his throat.

Regardless, my point was/is that people shouldn't get excited what others write and they can disagree as well. As long as this is anonymous, anyone who signs up is taking a risk that he might get bad advice.

waydown wrote on 12 Sep 2016 21:06:

I think among the difficulties in communicating via a forum is that I don't take everything in. I read a post with half a mind (or 99% of my mind) on what I can respond to and gloss over the rest. For instance, I must confess I didn't notice what Waydown had asked until I re-read his post this morning.

Shlomo,
With all your talk about a disgusting lollipop, we've all seen people headed down slippery slopes in the past knowing they were going to fall, sometimes really badly, and still most of the time people refrain from giving advice.

You know why? Because people rarely listen to advice, and even more rarely when its unsolicited. Hence, you may desire to speak the the truth, you may know where it's going, but it doesn't matter- you're just speaking for yourself.

It's like when the Rebbeim in Yeshiva high schools scream and yell about all sorts of things, or say all some of their more extreme views- it's entertaining, the Rebbeim feel they've told it like it is, and it helps no one.

In my role as a kiruv rabbi, I have the opportunity to be asked for lots of advice. I usually listen, try to model when I can, and these days when I offer advice I say "I know you're probably not going to do this but...." Because I know they probably won't listen and I want to leave the opening for them to come back and still discuss it, which they may not if they feel that I might not want to talk to them bc they didn't listen to my advice.

So what about Dov? Dov has achieved status of Rosh Yeshiva here and he gets the right to say what he wants. He's also wildly entertaining, and a bit of a schock jock, so maybe with him it works. But I think that's the exception, not the rule.

If I remember correctly, you are on your current streak because you reached out to your sponsor for help, and I don't remember anyone from the forum discussing what type of red lines were crossed or offering forceful advice. I know that if I were to fall, which has definitely happened in my life, I don't need to be reminded what an idiot I am. I know it from repeating the same behaviors I don't like. You know what I do need to be reminded? That I can do this, that it is worth it for me to do this, and to be handled with care because there's probably enough self loathing both from acting out, and probably because that's what got me into this in the first place. 

There is a difference between asking for advice, and taking it. If you look back you will see many many repeated posts on connected threads asking for ideas and solutions (I believe it's even the title of a popular thread), it seems that little of the advice offered was taken, but it was definitely asked for.Shlomo has a point. Lets not pretend that there is no history here. We can fool ourselves our whole lives in thinking that we don't need to look back and take a lesson from our past. But if we don't, we will end up making the same mistakes over and over and over again. 

As an person with ssa, I've heard of the concept of gay support groups. They're not about changing, They're about supporting each other in our personal desires. It's being there for the other person when they indulge. But where is the desire to change? Where is the openness to say "yes, what I've done until now has only gotten me into more trouble. I will take advice from other people who have experience. I will not say "They are full of baloney." I will come off my high horse and admit at least to myself that I am not the ultimate authority on what makes sense. My own thinking has gotten me into this mess in the first place, and my own thinking continues to keep me tied down in the mud without a chance to get up, while my neshama is screaming from inside me "GET ME OUT OF HERE! I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!""

Once again I see lots of heated discussions on here.

Firstly, last night was a tough one. I was about to have intimacy and went to the rest room. After coming out, my wife who is in her first trimester told be she got a spell of nausea and fatigue and was not in the mood any more. And so a week ago I would have turned to my contacts and flirted on-line as a release. Instead lkovod m shabbos I turned on some old shlomala holy stories and listened to that instead. But I was unable to conquer my lust completely and I was M"z.

Secondly, Shlomo I see you are busy with red lines. Right now I am as confused as Obama is on Syria what are red lines and what are orange lines.

Thirdly, my intent of this forum is not really to ask advice altough its always useful to rehash old advice. My real intent is simply because if I write a kind of journal of my life and place it forth to other people (despite its anonymity), it both acts as a deterrent for kind of sinking further or continuing, and it allows me to reaize my state and what needs improvement. As i have posted prior times  on the day when I post on GYE, I tend to not resort toward committing my "really bad" stuff like flirting online. I know others have testified that they have flirted or viewed porn with the GYE tab open right next to it, but generally I find that  for me being on GYE stops the progression (Maybe its only if you post? Not sure) Anyhow,It kind of acts as a stop gap measure.  I know that its not enough but for me its a start and that's why I post.

Lastly, in terms of my plan, I am beginning to formulate a plan. SA at the current moment does not really talk to me. (It may help for many others on this site but not me. I speak for myself and only myself. After all we are suppositley "selfish" people!) And neither does the 12 steps white book etc... Although regrading the 12 steps I must say, that there are some inherent good stuff to take out of it even if the entire process does not talk to me. (For example the idea of letting go of resentment towards others is a nice attribute, however you cut it. Thus as Cords suggested a while back why not work on that. After all we all need to work on middos. Its not just made for the marvelous middos machine!!!!) And I did have a very decent plan in place last time. My problem was that I did not stick to my own plan. I was not committed enough. I may reconsider modifying that as a start. But like I said that's not why I posted on here.

That's a difficult challenge you had last night, I know all about it

Hey posting is definitely helpful for many of us

But is there anything holding us back from dissapearing off the radar...

it it does make it very confusing for some of us if your POA is vague

How about clarifying your situation for example 
"Look guys I'm continuing masturbating, and am not looking to change. I just want to post daily here so that I don't return to chat rooms etc."

cordnoy wrote on 18 Sep 2016 01:33:

I understand you now. Gotcha. In terms of realistic, I was referring to how you said that all waydown was here for was to say that he's struggling and I thought that wasn't giving a fair judge of the situation considering there's history here. 

Thank you. People are understanding me. These posts have been about me. It's my experience and feelings that were in relation to Waydown. I don't expect him to "listen" even if I may sound like I'm giving him advice. I'm talking to myself out loud. When I "dared" him to recover, I felt I needed to say that, not because he would listen. Because I needed to say that. And maybe in 5 years he will look back and realize his insanity. And I don't mean insanity in a bad way. I'm insane also and some of the best people I know are insane. 

Again, "If it hurts you scream," it doesn't matter that screaming won't help, it's just what you do. 

testin'

tryin' for the 4th time, and no, i don't regard it as a sign:

all, please look at what Waydown wrote in the sentence beginnin' with "thirdly."

Done.

Regarding SA, it's been the experience of many that SA it is a last resort. SA works for people who are desperate to be rid of lust and feel they have no other options.  That was my experience with SA. When I showed up to my first meeting I was defeated and broken and out of options.  People don't have to have to sink as low as I did before they come to this realization though. Many people can come to the realization sooner.  And many people went way down to depths that I didn't and even further. 

In the words of SA: "

What is a Sexaholic and What is Sexual Sobriety?

We can only speak for ourselves. The specialized nature of Sexaholics Anonymous can best be understood in terms of what we call the sexaholic. The sexaholic has taken himself or herself out of the whole context of what is right or wrong. He or she has lost control, no longer has the power of choice, and is not free to stop. Lust has become an addiction. Our situation is like that of the alcoholic who can no longer tolerate alcohol and must stop drinking altogether but is hooked and cannot stop. So it is with the sexaholic, or sex drunk, who can no longer tolerate lust but cannot stop. Thus, for the sexaholic, any form of sex with one's self or with partners other than the spouse is progressively addictive and destructive. We also see that lust is the driving force behind our sexual acting out, and true sobriety includes progressive victory over lust. These conclusions were forced upon us in the crucible of our experiences and recovery; we have no other options. But we have found that acceptance of these facts is the key to a happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know. This will and should discourage many inquirers who admit to sexual obsession or compulsion but who simply want to control and enjoy it, much as the alcoholic would like to control and enjoy drinking. Until we had been driven to the point of despair, until we really wanted to stop but could not, we did not give ourselves to this program of recovery. Sexaholics Anonymous is for those who know they have no other option but to stop, and their own enlightened self-interest must tell them this."

A lot of people use GYE as a tool to prove they can stop on their own. They put together 90 days or whatever and then breath a sigh of relief. They can stop when they want. Then with total disregard for their wives and families they embark on another binge.  I didn't have GYE but I did this plenty of times. Thank God I was eventually able to realize that I was miserable.