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There must be a way
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Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern in the mind. Start your own Log of your journey to 90 days! Post here to update us on your status and to give each other chizuk to stay strong!

TOPIC: There must be a way 5120 Views

Re: There must be a way 20 Aug 2020 16:58 #354046

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Im rooting so much for you

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 10:18 #354068

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Baruch hashem I reached that stage where there is a change in perspective.
Now I look at myself as a guy who doesn't fall often. 
I'm amazed that the shift in mentality was so smooth and quick. 
Just a couple of months ago I was someone who falls almost every day with an occasional clean day. 
Now I am not someone who masturbate. 
Yes, I can fall on occasion but it's not part of my routine. 
It is just something that can happen to me on a bad day. 
I think the bigger challenge for me now is getting up after a fall.
This weeks fall felt like a real mistake as the circumstances were unusually challenging and I think that may have made it easier to get up when things calmed down. 
I tried to post about what led to my fall on my other thread but it didn't go through. I will hopefully have time to write about it soon Iy"h. I think it's quite an important post. 

So, today I'm clen b"h. 
Thank you all
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 13:08 #354070

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I love this! Keep up the good work!

This is something that I always found difficult to understand. There's so much focus on viewing ourselves as addicts, but that causes us to feel that we're going to lose the battle and then we do. And we surely lack the confidence needed to fight and win.

​I know that the 12 steps mentions the need to identify oneself as an addict, and many people say that supposedly Rabbanim seemed to be saying that the person should always think he's going to lose. But is that really what they are saying, at the expense of having any confidence in out ability to fight, and at the cost that we view ourselves as people who will surely give in at some point- which will be a self-fulfilling-prophecy? Or do they really mean that we should admit that there's vulnerability and there's a problem that needs work, and that we should also be cautious and not put ourselves situations where we can fall- but without actually identifying ourselves as broken people who will never get things right?

Does anyone else find it unhelpful to think of themselves as incapable in this struggle? Because I think that needing a higher power (Hashem) and being cautious and putting in time and work for this does not contradict the fact that one needs to feel capable with Hashem's help of winning when challenged.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2020 13:09 by Captain.

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 17:18 #354079

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Captain, I 100% approve what you just said.

It's a problem of denomination. Nobody IS an addict. It's just some people HAVE bad habits and different ways to react to the lust feelings that are the same for the ones we call 'addicts' and the ones we call 'normal'.

Someone saying that he IS an addict is putting a limited definition on himself, putting himself into a conceptual jail from which he will never escape.

Why not say that you ARE more than anything a jew, a son of Hachem, with a Neshama. This is what you ARE.

Then, you HAVE this job, you HAVE this car, you HAVE those eyes, this face shape, and also, you HAVE some bad habits in the way you react to normal lust feelings.

I just posted something related to this on this subject : guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/353856-My-90-day-Journey?limit=15&start=15#354077

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 17:41 #354080

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I like this. My point was that we should seek to gain all the benefits that come when people label themselves as addicts without the negative consequences and misery that comes along with it, by saying it differently.

"I am a person who is challenged by this and must be cautious and put in work, but I am not defective and permanently broke and I am not an addict for life."

That sounds much better than "I am an addict," which is usually interpreted by the person's brain as "I am an addict and I do these things always, and if by some lucky miracle I manage to reach 90 days clean, I'm still an addict and a tainted person."
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2020 21:19 by Captain. Reason: Missing word

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 19:15 #354081

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Captain wrote on 21 Aug 2020 17:41:
I like this. My point was that we should seek to gain all the benefits that come when people label themselves as addicts without the negative consequences and misery that comes along with it, by saying it differently.

"I am a person who is challenged by this and must be cautious and put in work, but I am defective and permanently broke and I am not an addict for life."

That sounds much better than "I am an addict," which is usually interpreted by the person's brain as "I am an addict and I do these things always, and if by some lucky miracle I manage to reach 90 days clean, I'm still an addict and a tainted person."

Nice post. But I think you left out a “not” in the second paragraph. 
!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

And every day that you want to waste, that you want to waste, you can
And every day that you want to wake up, that you want to wake, you can
And every day that you want to change, that you want to change, yeah
I'll help you see it through...


"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."

"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."

- General Grant



My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends

Re: There must be a way 21 Aug 2020 21:20 #354084

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You're right! See, the negative programming of my youth always manages to get its way in somehow lol.
(I fixed it now.)
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/
Last Edit: 21 Aug 2020 21:23 by Captain.

Re: There must be a way 24 Aug 2020 14:21 #354144

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Totally agree 

Much harder to pull through if you have a mindset of being in a hopeless situation and feeling like the fight is just about a matter of time. 

I also believe that most of us are not actually addicts, we just got used to habits which we have to break. 
Habits are not addictions and we can definitely pull through with the right mindset. 

My Internet did not work work for a few days. 

1 week clean b"h 
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number

Re: There must be a way 24 Aug 2020 17:47 #354148

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starting wrote on 24 Aug 2020 14:21:
Totally agree 

Much harder to pull through if you have a mindset of being in a hopeless situation and feeling like the fight is just about a matter of time. 

I also believe that most of us are not actually addicts, we just got used to habits which we have to break. 
Habits are not addictions and we can definitely pull through with the right mindset. 

My Internet did not work work for a few days. 

1 week clean b"h 

Isn’t drug addiction also another bad habit...
in that case, what is ‘addiction’
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Re: There must be a way 24 Aug 2020 18:10 #354149

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I understand that addiction is actually a very extreme form of habit.

But if you are just watching porn or masturbation, it is a habit. If you are not able to stop without help, it is still a habit.
If you would put yourself into dangerous or totally crazy situations like doing it in public in a steady basis, and you are watching for many hours a day and feel like you would die without an hour of porn, that sounds like an addiction.

Just my understanding, what do you think/have you heard over the years?
The start of 'STARting' is 'star'. Just start and you're a star!!
... and btw I really really love you! you keep me inspired!

'the cleaner I stay, the cleaner I stay' - AlexEliezer
העבר עיני מראות שוא, בדרכך חינו (תהלים קיט, לז)
PM me for my phone number

Re: There must be a way 24 Aug 2020 21:13 #354152

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Take a peek into Webster's dictionary. It seems habit and addiction is one and the same.

Re: There must be a way 25 Aug 2020 00:28 #354158

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Captain wrote on 21 Aug 2020 13:08:

.....​I know that the 12 steps mentions the need to identify oneself as an addict,.... But is that really what they are saying, at the expense of having any confidence in out ability to fight, and at the cost that we view ourselves as people who will surely give in at some point- which will be a self-fulfilling-prophecy? 

Hi Captain.  (Gosh, I feel like I'm in the navy)
The 12 steps actually doesn't mention the word addict at all. Sexaholics Anonymous (who practice the 12 steps) do encourage each other to be honest about who they are. All of those who I've met in sexaholics Anonymous do identify as an addict, but only because they are. If one is an addict, they find that the honesty of admitting it helps them, and if one is not an addict but simply has a bad habit,- by all means  - don't call yourself something that you're not. For someone who just has a bad habit there are a lot of easier ways to stop. 
But as a caviot, 12 steps or not, let's just be really honest with ourselves. I'm sure some people reading this simply have a 'bad habit' as you say. These people will use gye's many tools, post on the forum and see results. Habits can be hard to break - but they're still only habits. Give yourselve a deadline and go for it.
I'm also pretty sure that there are some people reading this who actually are addicts.
Calling myself an addict is not an excuse,  and it's not a self-basher. Its simply a recognition that my "habit" is a lot stronger then any of the tools that normally work for habits.
What I choose to do about my addiction is a whole nother story, but calling it a habit if its actually an addiction is similar to saying that Joe Biden is a young energetic clear-speaker - um, which is basically putting my head in the sand because I'd rather not face the alternative. 

Kit,
sg
BIG SHOT!
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STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

Re: There must be a way 25 Aug 2020 00:42 #354159

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Captain wrote on 21 Aug 2020 17:41:

...."I am a person who is challenged by this and must be cautious and put in work, but I am not defective and permanently broke and I am not an addict for life."

That sounds much better than "I am an addict," which is usually interpreted by the person's brain as "I am an addict and I do these things always, and if by some lucky miracle I manage to reach 90 days clean, I'm still an addict and a tainted person."

Ahh, but it is a miracle.

I have a question. i assume you would agree that the classic shikur drunk who even drives drunk, or a real drug addict in a smelly alley is a bonafide addict, not just a bad habit.
Now this druggy and alcoholic then went and admitted that they couldn't stop on their own and were addicted. Then somehow they went to AA, or NA (Narcotics Anonymous), got sober and stayed sober for decades - the rest of their life.  This story has happened to hundreds or thousands of people over the last 100 years. Now here's the shayla, (it works better if you say it in gemarah tune) According to what you were saying, maybe they got some lucky miracle and stayed clean for 90 days, but how in shoshan did they stay clean for decades? They were real addicts and admitted it! It should have been a self-fulfilling prophecy, they were tainted and would always fall, yet they built great lives after that..? Good kasha,  no?
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2020 00:44 by stillgoing.

Re: There must be a way 25 Aug 2020 18:20 #354182

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I don't see a problem with a person who's an addict referring to himself as an addict. (I didn't mention otherwise, though others on the forum did. Perhaps they feel it's a problem. You can discuss it with them.) I just think that for many people, feeling that such a label is for life and can never be shed makes the struggle harder, not easier. Of course there are exceptions, but for many people they would be better off if they didn't think they were defective for life.
And even more obviously, you should do what works for you. So if that works for you, continue it.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/
Last Edit: 25 Aug 2020 18:23 by Captain.

Re: There must be a way 25 Aug 2020 18:27 #354183

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No doubt there are many people in a large world who have succeeded at overcoming addiction. There are many people that have succeeded, and many people that have not. The question is not whether it's possible to succeed if the person thinks he will always be labeled defective. The question is whether for most people, that makes it easier or harder. And the bigger question is for each person individually, whether he things such an attitude will make it easier or harder for him.
In the place where ba’alei teshuva stand, even pure tzaddikim who never sinned cannot stand. (Rabbi Avohu, Brachos 34b)

Great free resources:
My favorite book for breaking free: The Battle of the Generation 
https://guardyoureyes.com/ebooks/item/the-battle-of-the-generation. Change your attitude and change your life!

Rabbi Shafier's incredible lectures on breaking free: The Fight. Download here: 
https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/
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