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I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!!
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TOPIC: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 11993 Views

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 22 May 2019 22:11 #341373

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Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)
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Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 00:41 #341375

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stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 02:21 #341376

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higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:

stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 
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Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 02:41 #341378

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Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:

higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:

stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 
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Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 04:10 #341379

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cordnoy wrote on 23 May 2019 02:41:

Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:

higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:

stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

You only need a Rav if you don't have clarity.

??? i guess asei lecha rav means all those that dont have clarity.
with all due respect what text pirkei avos do you have?
(aside from the fact that in sensitive issues we probably shouldnt be trustin' ourselves too much)
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 04:16 #341380

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Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:

higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:

stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:
Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!

lol.
on a serious note, i think i was pretty clear that this is just my opinnion, i dont have clarity but im not taking the sentiment that others are taking as a simple fact as a given either (that surrendering is for regulars) i could probably ask a daas torah in a roundabout way-or maybe even bluntly.
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 23 May 2019 08:53 #341384

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however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.



I think that theres still a misunderstanding here as to what surrender actually means...
Also i feel a little bit like this is the YH talking trying to justify why its better to look at women on the street because at least im partaking in a battle which is what Hashem wants from me!
Surrender isn't letting go of histadlut and blaming it on Hashem...
When i drive past a beautiful girl and my brain and heart tells me wow i wanna look at that, and enjoy that beauty and not from a healthy place - i am making a massive histadlut by letting go of that desire to look and driving past without looking.
Instead of surrendering to that base desire to lust after that gorgeous girl i surrender the action of looking.
In other words - all we are doing every time we are faced with a choice is surrendering.
Every time you want to fight the YH and not look but end up looking you surrendered... Only difference is you surrendered to the YH instead of surrendering the YH.
Most of us lusters are highly experienced at surrender...
We do it ALL the time...
Its a paradigm shift to surrender it instead of surrendering to it.
As i grow the muscle it becomes less of a struggle and more natural to surrender my base desires to 'drink' in the beauty... but ultimately its still a choice i have to make every single time.
Am i going to surrender my rights to look or am i going to surrender to my YH and look.
Does this make more sense?

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 24 May 2019 01:19 #341398

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higher wrote:

however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.



growstrong responded:
I think that theres still a misunderstanding here as to what surrender actually means...

Also i feel a little bit like this is the YH talking trying to justify why its better to look at women on the street because at least im partaking in a battle which is what Hashem wants from me!

Surrender isn't letting go of histadlut and blaming it on Hashem...

When i drive past a beautiful girl and my brain and heart tells me wow i wanna look at that, and enjoy that beauty and not from a healthy place - i am making a massive histadlut by letting go of that desire to look and driving past without looking.

Instead of surrendering to that base desire to lust after that gorgeous girl i surrender the action of looking.

In other words - all we are doing every time we are faced with a choice is surrendering.

Every time you want to fight the YH and not look but end up looking you surrendered... Only difference is you surrendered to the YH instead of surrendering the YH.

Most of us lusters are highly experienced at surrender...

We do it ALL the time...

Its a paradigm shift to surrender it instead of surrendering to it.

As i grow the muscle it becomes less of a struggle and more natural to surrender my base desires to 'drink' in the beauty... but ultimately its still a choice i have to make every single time.

Am i going to surrender my rights to look or am i going to surrender to my YH and look.

Does this make more sense?thanks for your explanation.
so higher wrote back:
i will say that i have very little knowledge as to what surrendering really is, i only know what ive gleaned from this site. im not clear as to what your surrendering by doing a hishtadlus NOT to look. that sounds like fighting lust. whats up with the word surrender. just not clear how the emphasis on that aspect clarifies anything. (maybe i dont nderstand the concept of surrendering to hashem well enough. what does that mean even to give up your lust. you have lust. thats a reality. you have to fight it. you have to fight to avoid the fight. no???? again-for non addicts, and just my thoughts, not worth much for the public.)

also, the phrases ive heard until now went something like this ''Hashem i am POWERLESS against this nisayon please help'' THAT expression-''powerless'' is exactly what im focusing on and is the subject of discussion.

finally, this is not at all a trick from the yetzer hara to look at improper things. this is an honest disussion as to a possible correct approach for non addicts.

could be what you said is correct. 

i dont understand why though.


 




which is totally ok, too. 


p.s. revenge#342567  of the messed up qoute button!!!
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817
Last Edit: 24 May 2019 04:53 by higher. Reason: p.s. squared

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 24 May 2019 05:10 #341408

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#6
this really goes without saying and shouldnt have to be posted but...
in response to much of the discussion....
if it works it works.
surrendering.
surrendering 2.0
fighting.
fighting 2.0
some other opinion/shita/fact.
some other opinion/shita/fact 2.0
as long as it works for you and helps you in the fight/milchemes hayetzer/surrender your lust/ then it works.
we can disagree about that too but its too long to type again.
ditto 2.0
but no matter what anyone knows/says/thinks/feels (" " 2.0)
the main thing is....
​if it works it works!
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817
Last Edit: 24 May 2019 18:35 by higher. Reason: needed editing

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 24 May 2019 06:23 #341409

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or as we say in the rooms, it works if you work it so work it youre worth it.

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 27 May 2019 03:17 #341453

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#9
for me personally...although the 90 day thing is great, for me i celebrate days with no slips. 
from my standpoint, i like to have clean days on G-D's ''chart'' and the 90 days slip and fall business can sometimes give me a permissive attitude twords slips. at least that i dont feel so bad after one-and not for a good ''healthy self esteem'' based reason or because you ''gotta pick urself up'' wtvr. 
Anyone relate?
obviously diff. strokes for diff folks and for perhaps many, the 90 day chart with its rules is great for them.
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817
Last Edit: 27 May 2019 03:18 by higher.

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 27 May 2019 03:29 #341454

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Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 27 May 2019 03:31 #341455

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 back buddy.

wink.


 
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 28 May 2019 03:23 #341491

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#10
see brachos 51a for an eitzah/segulah for fighting this yetzer hara specifically when encountering women.
just wanted to share.
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817
Last Edit: 28 May 2019 19:09 by higher.

Re: I AM HIGHER THAN ALL THIS!!! 30 May 2019 00:37 #341524

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#12
was just thinking...(#1)
the medrash says that by krias yam suf the waters split in the merit of yosef running away from eishes potipshar. so too, ha'yam ra'ah va'yanus.
rav chaim shmuelevitz asks, what is great about running away? do we praise someone for running away from a fight? he didnt win the fight-he fled! 
he answers that the battle against the yetzer hara is not about confronting him. we will surely lose. the battle is to recognize that we cant win. the fight is won outside the ring. that is his answer.
it takes both tremendous self-honesty and inner strength to recognize, admit, and live based on this truth.
water, (which also symbolizes desire, see rav chaim vitals writings on the 4 elements), the yam suf then in response fled from yosef hatzaddik. someone who attains the true gevurah in this area will be rewarded midah k'neged midah that the forbidden desires will not start up with him as well. they will flee from his strength.
in essence, the desire to enter the ring, to face a nisayon, is in itself a trick of the yetzer hara. one should never trust himself until the day he dies. (v'ad bchlal). there is a battle, and a very intense one. yet it is fought outside the ring. there the strong ones that vanquish the yetzer hara are crowned. and it is there that the siyata dishmaya to stop the yetzer hara for then and for the future-can be acquired.
if you need support relating to ur wife having sexual aversion and you are NOT an addict, feel free to pm me. ive picked up some advice along my own journey as well.
my thread:https:guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/340817-I-AM-HIGHER-THAN-ALL-THIS!!!#340817
Last Edit: 31 May 2019 00:50 by higher.
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