Markz wrote on 18 Jul 2018 10:46:

Markz it's no big feat to drop someone a one-liner and then put them down because they didn't understand what you meant.

The content of your message was not persuasive at all. You did not advocate effectively about the rules statement. and then you asked a bunch of questions.

Perhaps you think that you have something to teach me? If that's the case let's hear it, I can be persuaded by a good argument.

JoyOfLife wrote on 18 Jul 2018 11:29:

I know her pretty well by now. She wants help with the things that are hard for her. That's kids. Supper. Bedtime. Cleaning.

I think the key is that because she's a perfectionist some tasks appear huge to her. I think she magnifies the task in her head just like I magnify my desire. I can't figure out why she doesn't jump to save me from my desire, and she can't figure out why I don't jump to save her from her monumental task of making supper.

Basically she wants a mommy.

And I would add that she wouldn't have married me except because she liked having some help around. It sounds callous, but people are callous.

At any rate if this is her deal and she is not going to change I will be happy around her to the extent that I can be her mommy. And I can't let her know.

I think today I learned that there are two kinds of rebuke. One is the rebuke that people can process and that can help them change the better. And the other is a rebuke that eventually has to be given but that will not lead to change because the interested person doesn't have the zchus.

I remember my boss once telling me "don't get frustrated, because when you get frustrated you don't think well." It's like a description of a predicament rather than constructive criticism. But potentially still very useful.

mzl wrote on 18 Jul 2018 12:12:

I'm not putting anyone down, and no rebuke was mentioned


"I can't let her know" is how I used to tread... Good luck, it's not a recipe for שלום בית. As long as we keep apart there's אש. When the husband is open and connected, however painful it is, he changes from a situation of אש Gd forbid, to one of איש and אשה

Markz wrote on 18 Jul 2018 13:27:

I can't let her know how disappointing she is for me as a wife. There's no point. She is not going to step up to the plate and improve because she doesn't have it in her.

In her head she thinks she's a little kid. When I am around she needs to see me taking care of everything. The only thing that matters is whether I'm willing and able, and I am.

Washed some dirty pots. Making supper.

Markz wrote on 18 Jul 2018 10:46:

I try to help out as much as I can.

I feel bad thst unfortunately, I cannot help out as much due to being away for work too many hours.

I discussed this with my wife, she really commiserates with me, she is very emphatic, and feels I am correct, that I do not help out enough.
(Just kidding, she actual feels I am a good husband, Even though she would definitely appreciate more help!)

I recently heard quoted from Rabbi Aryeh Levine ZT"L. He asked, how long does a Chosen remain likened to a King? Is it only Chuppa, Wedding night, Sheva Brochos? His response was, as long as he treats his wife as the Queen, he remains the King.

Perhaps, as long as you feel that she thinks she is a little kid, she will actually remain that little kid.

Just my two cents. I really don't know if anything is relevant to you. Your posts sound like you're going through alot.

I wish you the best in all areas of your life.

It's a nice vort, even if it doesn't apply to me. We are just too distant from the traditional background. But it's true in general that with your behavior you can bring about a self fulfilling prophecy.

I meant that if I try to think of her as a little kid (who by default needs help with chores) I'll do much better in terms of giving her what she expects.

Day 41

mzl wrote on 18 Jul 2018 12:12:

Me like this.

I noticed a fascinating thing about the yetzer hara. I have become somewhat versed in the usual tricks. For example, a skirt flares out, or has a bright color, or has a certain texture. But every now and then the yetzer throws out a whole lot of independent such ideas all at once, and I basically have to consider each one. Then sometimes the yetzer throws out something which is just hard to nail down. This morning my wife is wearing three different things that trigger me, and two of them are like a mix of colors almost like an impressionist painting. I had to like. stop and look at it thinking "what IS that?"

Day 42

Hey,
​Firstly i must say you are a amazing guy - your comments are very insightful.
I must say, from what you write, it seems that what is going on, is what a rosh yeshiva once told me when i seemed surprised that a certain couple got divorced - i said "i was in the house there was no hostility no arguing certainly no fighting" he said back "משלאגט נישט און מקושט נישט" " they dont fight and they dont kiss" meaning there was simply lacking connection. 
There have been many people on the forum from years ago (i.e. check out shlombayis thread) that thought that their wives could/would never satisfy them in the bedroom, they thought all their wives wanted was a dude to clean her mess, or they thought their wives were not emotionally capable of having a regular relationship, some wives were angry some were just never exposed to their real potential spouses. Basically wen you write  "I know her pretty well by now. She wants help with the things that are hard for her. That's kids. Supper. Bedtime. Cleaning." and some other comments, it sounds like maybe you dont know her that well. In any case without causing a back and forth i am suggesting you watch "fireproof"
Also i must quote reb moshe braveman who said (in yiddish) the less the thing makes sense the bigger the chance there is a reason for it.
All the best

Boy that sounds good. I wish I could say you were right. But I fear I am really on the right track. Over the last few days I've been interrupting my regular job tasks to take kids to the bathroom, make lunch etc, and she is happy.

She is a very capable person, but with a man in her life she needs the man to do all the things that seem daunting to her.

Most notably, when she's on facebook with her friends and I stop working my job to make lunch she doesn't flinch.

This is where she's at.

"They don't fight and they don't kiss" is right on target for a father and a daughter. She doesn't fight as long as he doesn't kiss her like a wife.