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Bgit's Path Round #2
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TOPIC: Bgit's Path Round #2 51884 Views

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 02:46 #321053

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A guy voch bgit! Hope you had an uplifting Yom Tov! 

Maybe I'm not interested??? Who knows. Maybe. Maybe living a life that's a constant struggle and every other women on the street is a battal ground is worse than living a life with constant falls and depression, but doesn't t require any sacrifice? Surely! But somehow, I feel just the opposite when I am after a fall. The more I fall, the more I feel I want to stop. The more I fight, the more I feel I want to surrender. I am tired, full of lust and see no end. (Sorry for ranting in your fourm, I just find it easier to talk when I have at least one guaranteed listener:kissing_closed_eyes:, let me know when I become annoying..)

For me,  a good reminder of how important it is to stop is by being active about this. Reading and posting on this site for example. The more energy I put into my soberty, the more important it becomes in my life. And the best of it, the more I write to you and others on this wonderful site, the more it alleviates my lust.

So, are you interested in stopping? Sure! You wouldn't be here if not. Are you constantly interested in stopping? No! You wouldn't fall if not. So what's the deal? Good question. Maybe you need another couple of falls to remind you why you initially came here. I for one surely need some. But I can only afford these valuable (and certainly pleasurable) lessons tomorrow. For today, I wanna be clean. My sessions can wait, today cannot. It is already here. 

Cheers for a clean night, brother! 

Yitzchok

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 03:54 #321056

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@LoveU, Hashem 
You're not being annoying at all. I get a lot of chizuk from your and others input, and feel more accountable knowing that others are reading what I say. 

B"h Yom Tov was good. I think that less free time and being around people more help me out. I think that during Bain Hazmanim it's much more difficult for me because of the lack of structure. Iy"h I'll start officially counting again in a week at the beginning of next zman. 

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 04:17 #321057

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bgit wrote on 15 Oct 2017 03:54:
@LoveU, Hashem 
You're not being annoying at all. I get a lot of chizuk from your and others input, and feel more accountable knowing that others are reading what I say. 

B"h Yom Tov was good. I think that less free time and being around people more help me out. I think that during Bain Hazmanim it's much more difficult for me because of the lack of structure. Iy"h I'll start officially counting again in a week at the beginning of next zman. 

Hey bgit it's not the sefira months so you don't need to count if you don't want

Dov wrote:
A share to Briut and Truth11:
Happy Rosh Chodesh and Good Shabbos (oyoyoy)!

We count days in s'firah because we are waiting. Waiting for kabolas haTorah. The excitement is supposed to build up a bit, no? "We made it!"

I believe that there are many of us who are not working a Program, but are just trying really, really hard to control themselves. They are certainly good people - probably far gooder than I, and I mean that seriously.  Nevertheless, to me they are sitting ducks, period. But what I am going to say even applies to those of us who are working a Program.

Counting the days we are clean can be wonderful for some, but I hope you realize that it can also be - deep within our hearts - a counting of how long we can actually tolerate the (inevitable) buildup until the next time we act out. I believe this is very frequent. It is exactly like climbing up a ladder. I am afraid of heights. If I look back down as I am climbing, once I get to an impossibly high height, my hands and feet begin to shake. I know that I would fall....so I never climb that high! How high do you want to climb in sobriety? If you are looking back you will not get very high. We all know that being sober 5 years in a row is just plain impossible...for each of us, the last barrier is the "impossible height". Sure it's BS, but our feelings do not care about sechel very much. It's our Reality - why pit ourselves against so powerful an adversary?

Instead, my experience in sobriety is like that of a guy walking across an abyss on a 2x8. Now, I have no trouble at all balancing on a 2x8 if I see it's on the floor! But if I see that it is suspended between two high buildings I will certainly panic, lose my balance, fall, and die. Looking down is just plain ossur. So I don't. And I do not count.

It's a good thing I am not a posek around s'firah-time!

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 18:29 #321079

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bgit wrote on 03 Oct 2017 04:13:
@Markz
711 sounds good, I'm always good for a slurpee

@stillgoing
Thanks for the advice, and feel free to use the thread to post your thoughts.  It's important to think about these things.  I'm not sure if I agree with you or maybe I'm misunderstanding you.  It sounds like you're saying that if I/we reallyunderstood what the purpose of life was, I/we wouldn't struggle as much since we would be so involved in living life as it's meant to be lived. 

I'm probably misunderstanding something, but isn't this basically the mussar approach to fighting lust?  "If you only knew how important learning was" or "if you only knew how damaging this is to ourselves/ the world" etc.  Aren't we always going to be human beings with the free will to live as we choose, no matter how much clarity we have at a given time (maybe that's what you meant about it still being there, just lessened)?.


Hi B(e)git
I'm sorry that I haven't responded until now. I no longer have daily (or even sometimes weekly) access to gye (part of recovery).
I probably wasn't so clear in my original post. I wasn't advocating for just "understanding" our life's purpose and goals. I was talking about actually living them. I completely agree with you that clarity alone won't last us very long. We need to put that clarity into action to see a change.
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
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STORY TIME :)

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 18:31 #321081

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bgit wrote on 04 Oct 2017 02:32:

@stillGoing

I've been thinking a little bit more about what you said and might be starting to understand it.  Let me know if this is more along the lines of what you meant.  Even though someone might not be lacking fulfillment in a general sense, when he's watching porn or masturbating it's a sign that at that particular time he's kind of lost and doesn't really have direction.  Therefore we should work on increasing meaningful activities in our lives so we won't be lacking meaning at those times.  If that's the case, I think that I agree with it and will think about what to do with down time.

Wow! I'm starting to be happy that I didn't reply sooner. That's even better then what I wrote. Maybe if I keep away longer, you'll keep on saying great stuff in my name
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 15 Oct 2017 18:37 #321082

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Ihavestrength wrote on 11 Oct 2017 04:01:
You write clearly and honestly.

Too much thinking though imho.

The reason we don't succeed isn't because we haven't made enough dramatic commitments and bold statements saying "no more, and never again!". 

We need to DO something. Not THINK something. 

You are on this site. Why the hell would you be here if you don't give a damn about quitting porn?

Peace 

I know plenty of people who are on this site but don't want to stop. I was probably one of them. Maybe I still am. What would I tell my conscience if I didn't at least register here and post daily.  I don't see what that has to do with wanting to stop.

Although I do believe in thinking, you're probably right that we shouldn't get too hung up on 'do we, or don't we really really want to stop". It does help to consider though, that our efforts (or lack thereof) might be a reflection of not really caring.
BIG SHOT!
Free Choice?!
Yirai's Memories
STORY TIME :)

Dr. Seuss - You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself in any direction you choose. You're on your own, and you know what you know. And you are the guy who'll decide where to go.

FSKOT! (Fell Shmell--Keep on Trucking) (The Rebba R' Bards)

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 16 Oct 2017 01:04 #321094

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Iy"h I'll start officially counting again in a week at the beginning of next zman.


I love it! That line used to be my favorite! I waisted years of my life cause I couldn't start in the middle; I needed Shlimes. I would wait till moitzie shabbas to restart, and if I fell by Sunday afternoon, I would wait for an entire week so I don't just start on a random Sunday afternoon. 

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 03:17 #321169

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@Markz

That's a really insightful quote from Dov, thank you.  I suspect that there isn't that much difference between day 7 and day 30 in terms of sheer desire, but by day 30 we just feel like we know that we can't make it this far, so we better have a fall.  It's like the quote from Groucho Marx (no pun intended Markz)  "I won't be a member of any club that will have me as a member".  We "know" that we shouldn't be there so we subconsciously sabotage our attempt.  For now, I think that I'll try counting since counting gives some structure to the whole system, and differentiates one day from another.  I feel like if I stop now, I might just drop off the grid and never be heard from again (which might be a good thing to some people, who knows?) since one day is the same as any other.

If what Dov is saying is good advice, do you know why there is such an emphasis on GYE on the ninety day program?  Whoever made the site and booklet seemed to view it as a good way of going about this.  Is this just for people at varying levels of this struggle?

@LoveU,Hashem

I hope that it doesn't turn into that!  I'm definitely going to try and stay clean, I'm just not going to start the "official" counting until then.  Hopefully all will go well, but during bain hazmanim it's much more difficult since I have less structure and I want to give myself the best shot that I have.

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 03:37 #321173

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I recently realized that after internalizing all the info about addiction GYE offers us, on my way down I tell myself "you're lacking in Simcha, satisfaction/ you're too hard on yourself, x,y,z...and that serves as an excuse to fall! So like Nike just do it! We have to make sure we don't analyze this too much. For some people think less about the whole issue may help. Probably for the majority it won't but everyone must decide for himself.
keep on ticking!

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 03:47 #321174

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bgit wrote on 17 Oct 2017 03:17:
If what Dov is saying is good advice, do you know why there is such an emphasis on GYE on the ninety day program?  Whoever made the site and booklet seemed to view it as a good way of going about this.  Is this just for people at varying levels of this struggle?


I believe that yes - each man has to find which tools work for him and be honest about them.

1. If Taphsic HONESTLY works for you (long term) then keep at it (it doesn't for most people - fact)
2. If counting HONESTLY works for you then keep at it
3. Listening to recording of Dov calls works me, so I keep at it
4. Sharing regularly on the forum works for me, so I keep at it (this tool doesn't help all people)

I think Dov was saying that for some, counting days isn't what they need
They need to "stop", mark the date then forget about it. If they keep finding themselves back at base 1 ("stop base") too often then it means they have no sobriety plan, and it may be a good idea to "stop" and think about a plan (one that's tried and tested, and gye offers many ;-).

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 04:09 #321176

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I had a fall yesterday morning, but b"h I've been clean since then.  I think that I'm starting to realize that after I fall I feel good, but I start to be unpleasant to the people in my life that matter to me (wife and kids).  I think that it's because I'm upset/ ashamed of myself and I feel less connected to the people around me.  Someone in this thread mentioned how the falls distance us from Hashem, and this is very true.  I think that I'm starting to have some level of appreciation for this now.  It makes us climb into ourselves and not be able to connect to anything, Hashem,our wives and kids, friends etc.  Forgetting anything religious, when I act out I'm a worse person to those around me then if I don't.  
**This may contain triggers so please be careful.  I don't think that it's too bad, but please use your judgement**
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!


Maybe this was obvious to other people, but I was just thinking about it and wanted to share.  I think that this realization that I am a worse person to those around me and have less to do with them (even in non-sexual ways) is interesting to me and really make it seem not worthwhile. 

Also, UnknownGYE, thanks for the shout out at guardyoureyes.com/forum/2-What-Works-for-Me/321016-Betachbulos-Asei-Milchama!  I really didn't think that people would be inspired because of my thread(especially since from my end I don't seem to have made a lot of progress...  I'm still falling, although it's less frequent), but I feel very honored that someone would walk away from here with more than what they walked in with.  I also owe a big thank you to all the regulars.  I feel like we have a little family here with everyone's input and insights giving me incredible amounts of chizuk and food for thought.

See everyone tomorrow!
Last Edit: 17 Oct 2017 04:12 by bgit.

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 04:19 #321178

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Wow Bgit ! I'm not married so I wouldn't be able to tell you about the real sex part but the masturbation part is so true and as a whole it seems to make sense!
my pleasure. Thank you for a great thread.

Keep on ticking! Decide that you're staying sober no matter what, no tirutzim! You don't even have to argue your position. You know based on experience that you don't actually like acting out so decide you will avoid evil and daven to Hashem to help you. May Hashem listen to all your tefillos,from the fastest, unconcentrated davening to the most geshmak connection to the Ribono shel olam, Letova!


Keep on ticking !

Yehonatan

Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 11:20 #321182

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Bgit, you hit the nail on the head. Release as a connector and release into emptiness are two different worlds/experiences. As a similar concept, i have heard some explain that Adam and Chava were originally created as one unit (as oppossed to animals where male and female were created seperately) and we - both men and women - therefore find great security, calmness. etc, in a connected intimate state with our spouses. Animals only have a drive to reproduce. Therefore there is no intimacy, and in most cases in the animal world, they do not mate for life and "switch partners" seasonally.

Your posts are very helpful for all of us. You have a great zchus from sharing. Iyh you will break free completely (whatever that term means to you) and continue to inspire many.
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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 12:44 #321185

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How about if you masturbate with another person?

My take: one who is lustin' is in a pursuit of self gratification. One who is engagin' in healthy sex (whatever the Hell that means) is involved in givin'.

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Re: Bgit's Path Round #2 17 Oct 2017 19:29 #321220

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Very well said bgit! So true!!  Not sure what healthy sex is supposed to mean? Is enjoying sex with my wife unhealthy?? But in any case, at least by me, even when I was really lusting when I had sex with my spouse, it never had the emptiness afterward. I felt so relieved, like I did something so natural, but never empty or down (maybe tired:wink: ).  

Begit, keep up your journey, you are keeping me going..
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