New Person wrote on 10 Aug 2017 18:12:

i learned big time, that everything is about control, and when there is control, there is everything, Control our thoughts, our doings, our eyes, and our will power, we should have the רצון to have a רצון........ and thats what keeps me out of the mud, day-by-day, 

Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 10 Aug 2017 19:05:

Apikorsus - Man!!

You mean to say you managed without gye, and only control?
I don't believe you - sorry bro

Markz wrote on 10 Aug 2017 19:19:

Are you nuts??? how did i learn how to control myself, other then from GYE???? other then from you??? 

Shivisi, you sound BH great. You are feeling what its like b'ezras Hashem to be able to be in control and stand up to the monster. The term being in control is not contradictory with surrendering to Hashem. Keep up the great work.

Please do not call KarlMarks a monster  

Thank you

Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 10 Aug 2017 20:00:

Good luck with control.
I gave up all control to Hashem.
I just take the next right action.

GrowStrong wrote on 10 Aug 2017 20:15:

and the next right action comes with?....... CONTROL, yes, CONTROL, and of course with the the help of hashem, i cant breath, eat, walk, move and act out without the help of hashem....

Hashem Help Me wrote on 10 Aug 2017 20:04:

Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 10 Aug 2017 20:19:

Not for me.
I dont have any control.
For me it comes from acceptance (that i have no control), willingness (to take the next right action) and surrender (to Hashems Will and Control of everything)

Shivisi_Hashem wrote on 10 Aug 2017 20:00:

#1 Im Nuts
#2 I still disagree with your comment that "everything is about control". If control without utilizing gye is everything, please take a short 72 hour brake [intentional Trucking misspell] and let us know how it went

There's absolutely nothing wrong with control. It doesn't work for me because I'm an addict. For non-addicts, if it works, work it. Keep up the great work, Shivsi.

Shlomo24 wrote on 10 Aug 2017 23:24:

Sometimes us non-addicts can feel a little bullied on the forum so thank you. It means a lot for an addict to support and encourage non addicts to take control rather than try to convince them to join the club and surrender.

LifneiHashem wrote on 11 Aug 2017 15:20:

Time for separate sites. [Ed. Note: the previous note was said in jest and is purely sarcastic.]

Sometimes us addicts can feel bullied as well. When I see that "all we need to do is control ourselves," I feel bullied, for I have little control. When I see that "all we need to do is surrender, for we have no control," I feel bullied, for do I really have "no control"?

Did I once have control?
Do I have now?
What does control mean anyway?

B'hatzlachah

I liked your post, Cordnoy. I still don't know how surrender works or the ins and outs of control. But the beauty of this program is that I don't need to know and at this point I don't even care. I've become much more practical. If it works I do it, if it doesn't I don't. That's all.

I think the point that whoever it was was trying to make is that you learn how to control your decisions. It may not be true for addicts, but I don't know- even for 12 steppers it never jumped into your head "I'd love to act out, on second thought nah, it would be stupid."

That's a form of control; you may not be IN control but at that moment you might be controlllkng your decisions. 

It may be your higher power helping you, but ultimately you're the one who does the action to doesn't. And if you ever make a choice not to, you controlled yourself.

I always understood that 12 steps was trying to say that we had to relinquish control of our lives and stop trying to control our addiction. It didn't mean that in a specific decision we didn't have control.

But I'm not sure if this is only for non-addicts or not.