Hi all,

I would like to introduce myself... my name is ******* from ***** and my social security number is ***-**-****.

But to get a little serious, I have had a problem with the internet for a long time. For a while now, I don't think I was able to go longer than a week without falling (with maybe a few exceptions). Recently, I moved to Israel and that was enough chizuk to keep me away for a few weeks, but now that I fell again, I realize that I don't want to pursue this challenge by myself. I look forward to speaking with you!

Welcome! Read the handbook.  Keep posting.  Tell us some more.  We are all in the same boat.

Welcome to gye.

How are you planning on stopping?
What's helped in the past?

Keep on posting!

Funny, I have the same name and social. Welcome!

My struggle:

I am little embarrassed to talk so bluntly about my struggle, but I guess talking about it is a step in the right direction:

I have not read so many of these threads, but from what I read it seems a little disheartening. It seems that this addiction for many people is a response to some sort of struggle like marital issues, and resolving these issues goes a long way to easing off of the addiction. I don't think that's my struggle. I'm not saying my marriage is perfect or that I never rationalize giving in when I'm in a bad mood, but that's not the reason why I give in. I give in because it's enjoyable and pleasurable. If everything was going great in my life, I would have the same taivah.

Which brings me to my main struggle, I don't know if I want to stop. I mean, on a theological and spiritual level I want to stop because I know it's assur and the poskim speak very negatively about this aveirah (I use the word aveirah loosely because I'm not exactly sure it's listed as one of 365 lavim by the monei hamitzvos). And whenever I do it, it makes me feel so guilty that for at least a day (sometimes more) I find it difficult to learn or go to minyan. But objectively speaking, I don't feel any negative consequences from this addiction. Meaning, if it wasn't assur, then I wouldn't feel guilty after doing it, and I would be able to do it and be able to go back learning and davening and mitzvos (unlike other addictions like alcohol and drugs which have physical negative repercussions).

All of the strategies I've read here, even things as simple as installing a filter on my computer, are difficult for me because I'm not ready (or I'm not willing to) give it up cold turkey. This is what I want my strategy to be (which I know is completely awful, and in the long run ineffective) is to give myself an amount of time to not watch...2 weeks, 3 weeks, even a month... and then after my time is up I give myself an evening where I can indulge. I would be less likely to feel guilty because it would come after so many nights of "successes" and I wouldn't feel the pressure of "quitting" something I enjoy because I'm not quitting, just doing it less often. But, that's an awful strategy, how could I use the very thing I'm trying to avoid as the "reward" for avoiding it? How long can this strategy even work for... would I be able to go months clean at a time with this "reward?"

This can't work... all it is, is a way to not quit while not feeling guilty (or feeling less guilty) about not quitting. But how can I quit if I don't want to? I mean I want to but I don't. I want to be a good Jew but I also want to get this enjoyment. (It doesn't help that my wife right now is still post partum and is so stressed and tired from work that she is never in the mood, I mean she feels really guilty about it and she wants to want to be more intimate with me, but she can't force it,and I appreciate her wanting to be there for me but I'm stuck without an outlet).

I need help. The first step to quitting is wanting to quit. How do I get there when I enjoy it so much?

I owe you one for acceding to what I requested on the PM

See - you're a caring fellow that takes other people into consideration!

I gotta learn from you!!!

When I read half your post now I was thinking - "hey ok porning won't affect anything - but hold on how's the marriage doing? Presumably not so great"

And then I continued reading...

Usually positive relationship is gained by minimizing lust and similar selfish activities. I'm not sure that's what's happenin' in your marriage, but by me it was, and still a work in progress...

theyetzer wrote on 02 Aug 2016 14:00:


Such a good question. It is really tough, but the truth is that it just takes some honesty.

For example, you say you don't really see consequences, but then you agree that you have a hard time davening and learning which for a day. That sounds like a consequence for a frum Jew. Also, you say that if it wasn't Assur you wouldn't mind- which everyone here including myself says- but since when do we say-look, I eat pig, but it's not such a big deal bc if it wasn't Assur I wouldn't mind?

And then of course I'd imagine that it doesn't feel great to live a double life, if imagine that you're hiding from your wife and feel dishonest and guilty- at least these are all feelings that I've felt.

If you feel these, and tell me if you do or don't, isn't that enough?

Of course, it's hard to connect to it but we have to just tell ourselves that this is what is really going on.

Your first point is a valid point. At the very least, it's the same thing as eating non-kosher... just because it's enjoyable doesn't mean I can do it. The difference is, is that this isn't just a pleasure, but it's also an addiction (and the fact that I've never had non kosher food makes it easier to avoid). The litvak in me tells me, that all I have to do when the urge comes is to tell myself that it's assur and I won't do it. That works sometimes, but other times it's just overwhelming.

The part about hiding it from my wife doesn't bother me as much. I know this is just rationalizations, but first of all, I don't see it as a double life because I don't think my addiction defines my life. It's one detail, and I don't think of hiding one detail of my life as a double life. I don't feel dishonest and guilty because it has nothing to do with her (at least that's what I tell myself). She would be crushed if she found out but only because she doesn't understand the nature of the addiction. Maybe I should feel more guilty, maybe if I were a better husband I would feel more guilty (or maybe if I were more honest with myself I would feel more guilty), but I have convinced myself that I'm not betraying her.

I've tried to stop, and I couldn't do it alone which is why I've joined GYE. But if I look at the long term picture, it's very overwhelming and it makes it harder. I've tried the strategy of taking it one day at a time, which works sometimes, but it only works for so long. Like as soon as I take stock of how long it's been, it's like looking down while climbing a tall mountain, if it's been a while I get a powerful urge again and then "taking it one day at a time" doesn't work. The most effective method so far has been the Taphsic method (basically making a neder that for the next x amount of days, if I look at inappropriate material bemeizid than I will fast until chatzos the next day and if I'm mashchis zera than I will fast the whole day) which helped me go longer than any other method. But, even so, I kept on looking forward to when my "neder" would be over when I could indulge... and if I made the neder too long, I would just take the fast. I'm nervous that if I make it too long and feel like I can't fast, I will just break the neder which is just compounding the issue.

I know I'm being dishonest with myself but I can't stop cold turkey. I've tried. Taking it slow (through various methods) has worked better, but also ineffectual when the mountain got too high. And I know the reason, because I haven't accepted upon myself a true desire to stop. When taking it slow, I kept on looking forward to reaching my goal, not because of the pride of reaching the goal but than I could indulge guilt free. I am trying to quit on a completely intellectual level but I haven't accepted upon myself the emotional desire to quit, so I keep on looking forward to it.

If you're just looking for motivation, it's simple. Tell your wife what you do behind her back. I have a feeling she won't see it the same way you do.

Welcome,

Honesty doesn't come overnight.

Search for it.

B'hatzlachah

theyetzer wrote on 02 Aug 2016 14:00:

I am going to be presumptuous, make an assumption this was not a rhetorical question, and offer my opinion.

From my own experience and from reading the forums for the past year, I think there are a few paths where guys like us find the motivation to stop.
The emotional path can be triggered in a traumatic way by hitting bottom. The realization that life has become unmanageable. This is a painful experience, and if your level of acting out relative to your tolerance creates a level of manageability (denial certainly helps ) then you could end up like me, taking the long slow road that takes years to reach the tipping point of unmanageability. Much damage can be done to your family along the way, and it's not pretty.

Getting caught sometimes has a similar effect but not always.

There's another possibility. Instead of thinking about how to stop, try thinking about what's driving the habit. What is going on in your head that makes this habit so hard to break.
If your lifestyle includes a strong focus on your commitment to Hashem and to your wife, why would you persist in engaging in an activity that is a betrayal of both of those values?
Initially it may seem like it's nothing more than a natural response to a biological drive. If it was nothing else, wouldn't your values overrule the drive? Your values are important enough to you that they induce you to make other sacrifices.
Aah, but this sacrifice is the hardest, much harder than fasting Yom Kippur, even harder than keeping Taharas Hamishpacha. I wonder why is it that not everyone does this? (Presumably there are a few people left who don't, or at least not regularly, right?) Is there no-one in the world who feels that drive as strongly as you? Doesn't seem likely.
So maybe there's some other cause, and maybe that other cause can be dealt with head-on, rather than just fighting the symptom, which is for many of us a non-starter (although it may take years to realize that).

Stick around, check out the articles, forums, chizuk emails, handbook, tools, etc. and be blessed with hatzlocho!

EL,

That was one of the most relevant to me, and one of the clearest and best our posts I have ever seen. You really hit the nail on the head.

TY,

I hear you loud and clear. It's definitely hard to find the motivation and honesty to give up what you like; that's part of the challenge.

I once heard an interesting description of what it takes to give up addiction.

You can give up addiction when the alternative to your addiction is more accessible, relevant and attractive to you.

Workingguy wrote on 02 Aug 2016 21:40:

Hell yeah. Great quote. 

Motivation is tough, but I can tell you from personal experience, if the motivation comes from your wife finding out (which is likely to happen eventually) it will be painful.

You clearly understand that you need to stop, but you are scared, and overwhelmed.  You very clearly shared the basic thought process many of us had/have.

Oh, also, many goyim are in SA for masturbation and pornography addiction even though they don't see anything "morally" wrong with it.  Is it only the "issur" that affects you?  I used to think so about myself.  I came to realize it was much more than that.

Stick around.  Keep posing and reading the forum.