Read once, then minimize to save screen space.

Forum Overview

Post on the forum to get support, tell your story and reach out for help when feeling weak!

You will never be alone in this struggle again.

The GYE forum is anonymous platform of group support, and a life-line of chizuk for hundreds of people in exactly your situation. 

To use the forum you need to first become a member of the site, sign up here.

After signing up to the site, go to the forum, enter one of our boards and press "New Topic" to begin posting! 

Welcome, Guest

Appropriate Dress in Shul
(0 viewing) 
Welcome to our forum! Introduce yourself here (anonymously, of course) and get a warm welcome from the rest of the community!

TOPIC: Appropriate Dress in Shul 3420 Views

Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 03:41 #265198

Hi guys, I have no idea if this post is in the right place but I felt a strong need to talk about some things that have really bothered me this past Yom Tov. If it's out of place please forgive me.

I am struggling very much with this addiction. I have committed with new resolve to do better this year, to find some sanity. I go to shul and daven well but even in shul and afterwards I am confronted with views that are terrible triggers. I spent most of the past few days walking with my head down and at one point I even took my glasses off so that I could walk out of shul. Now I know I have a problem and it makes me very susceptible to wanting to look at things we shouldn't look at but the way women and girls are coming to shul makes it even harder for me and I strongly suspect that it can create problems for men who didn't have a problem to begin with. Honestly, the women I see in Shul are dressed more attractively than any non-Jewish women I encounter on a regular basis. Now I'm not saying that people should show up in garbage bags to shul but I think being dressed to the nines is a little over the top. Besides for being dressed to the nines, I believe that women and girls are really pushing the boundaries of Tznius if not out right crossing them. Every Yom Tov it seems the clothing is shorter, tighter, and more flashy. What is going on?! Are these women trying to incite an affair?! Do they want to be machshil the rabim?!

More importantly, is there anything that can be done about it? I have thought about approaching the Rav to voice my concerns. Couldn't one of the older ladies stand at the door and recognize when someone is not dress appropriately? It reminds me of a story with Rav Avigdor Miller zt'l. He was giving a shiur and an inappropriately dressed woman walked in wearing a low cut bright red dress. He stopped the shiur and asked if the Para Aduma could please leave. Extreme some might say, but is it really? I mean picture Arab women at a Mosque. Do you think that if one of them showed up dressed like one of these women in shul that they would be allowed in. Would it be so terrible to have someone monitor the standard of dress in shul? At least help us out in the place where we go to daven. Shouldn't shul be a safe place where we can go and not have to worry about running into triggers right when we walk in the door? Why do I have to take off my glasses to go into the hall to use the bathroom?

I would appreciate any help in dealing with this particular difficulty.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 04:03 #265200

  • Markz
  • Current streak: 87 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 7209
  • Karma: 373
Hi GB
These are tough situations, where the shul wasn't designed with guys like us in mind.

How's the state of your mind / your thoughts regarding lust, when not confronted with this shul or similar situation?
My Story---------Dov Quotes


What works for me:
ForumInternet Restrictions




FREE LUST TRUCK TOWING
Click HERE to checkout;
100 Day Success Stories: cordnoy, Dov, Gevura and more...
• Awesome Threads Saved for You
• Cast Your Vote

GYE Plenty Solutions
➣ The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk

➣ Nice Trucking Story

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 04:19 #265205

  • serenity
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • "ONE DAY AT A TIME"
  • Posts: 1786
  • Karma: 167
Focus on yourself and start implementing the tools here.
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 04:31 #265206

  • serenity
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • "ONE DAY AT A TIME"
  • Posts: 1786
  • Karma: 167
Sorry is that came across as blunt, but it's what has worked for me and many others.

Hatzlacha!
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 15:21 #265244

  • AlexEliezer
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1879
  • Karma: 54
I relate very much to your concern.
Except I refuse to think about it.
Because thinking about it just gets me thinking about them and how enticing they look.
Then I just obsess about the whole thing.
Which leads me to obsess about what I love obsessing about.
Which leads me to fall.

There was a guy who used to post here who would say,
"she may be a problem, but she's not my problem.

Yasher koach for looking down and taking off your glasses.
We need to focus on our own issues.
We lust-obsessed men can help Klal Yisroel best by cleaning up our side of the street.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 17:06 #265254

  • eslaasos
  • Current streak: 1 day
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 931
  • Karma: 79
Maybe it depends on the community and the shul?

I haven't yet seen a post from Serenity or AlexEliezer that I didn't agree with, and it makes a lot of sense that at the end of the day we are not responsible for other people's actions, we have to take care of whatever nisyonos are sent to us by Hashem (not these unfortunate women).

However, based on my experience, some shuls do require more zehirus than others, and like anything else I'll try to stay away from triggering situations.

So maybe these women need to update their wardrobe, and maybe the Rav has a responsibility to do what he can (probably not much, so maybe he's doing whatever he can already), but that's not something I'm in a position to resolve, so I just move on and away.
In any event, even in the most right wing shul where the women eschew makeup in favor of bulletproof stockings, we still have to control our eyes and thoughts.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
My Thread    My Other Thread

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 07 Oct 2015 20:29 #265265

  • abd297
  • OFFLINE
  • Gold Boarder
  • Posts: 282
  • Karma: 12
Fully relate to the issues. It is pretty stunning to see some of the things nowadays. I'm in a small community that's mostly yeshivish so it's not a huge deal but guests and some more modern people are real issues. I guess just don't think about it and watch yourself as much as possible.
Let Hashem Do His Job!

We need to jump off the conveyor belt of life and walk on our own.

You cannot make yourself feel something you do not feel, but you can make yourself do right in spite of your feelings.

Life begins at the end of your comfort zone.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 00:32 #265273

"she may be a problem, but she's not my problem.

Thank you for that phrase. I will try to remember it. It is very true. My problem is that I wish that even just one place would be sacred so that although I fight at work and in the street at least I was hoping that when I got to shul I didn't have to start off behind! I walk in the door and before I say a single tefilah the fight is on again. Maybe I should come earlier!

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 01:03 #265276

Welcome aboard getting.better

I will admit I had to smile when I read your post. Not because I don't agree with you, as the way some people dress for Shul can make it tough on Shemiras Einayim, but because the I think we are holding the mirror the wrong way.

I believe that the reason so many woman are dressing this way is because of people like us, who have been obsessed with lust, have paid attention to women because of how they look, and have made that the focus of our attention for women. When a girl knows that this is the way to get a guy's attention, she will do so. When a girl feels like her self-worth is tied to her appearance, she is going to focus on that appearance.

Yes, I agree the way some of the women dress is inappropriate, and because I hate what it does to women, I hate the fact that I have likely played some role in it.

PS I recently read of a Shadchan who advocates cosmetic surgery for girls in Shidduchim to improve their chances. It may be extreme but it's a response to the realities of where so many of us are...

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 02:27 #265278

  • serenity
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • "ONE DAY AT A TIME"
  • Posts: 1786
  • Karma: 167
What about the SSA guy who maintains his sobriety. He's right there in shul with the guy he's attracted to, never mind in the gym etc. The point is that this problem emanates from our mind and our fantasy and the solution resides there as well.
Much Hatzlacha!

My Threads:
Glad to be here
Don't slip it hurts
Lions & Tigers & Internet, Oh My!

--"ולא המדרש עיקר, אלא המעשה"
--"To promise not to do a thing is the surest way in the world to make a body want to go and do that very thing." Mark Twain
--"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking (or lusting), you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic (or sexaholic)." AA Big Book P. 45. Parenthesis added.
--You hit rock bottom when you decide to stop digging.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 13:11 #265299

  • AlexEliezer
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1879
  • Karma: 54
I was thinking about this topic (which I already said I shouldn't) and it occurred to me (along the lines of what Hatzileini Na wrote) that it has been discussed many times on this forum that many men here wish their wives would dress a little edgier, a little more enticing. As if that would make things easier for them. Now I don't mean to open up this topic again here, but thought it was worth mentioning.
So the very thing we want from our wives is the thing we're now complaining about (as a group).
Just saying...

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 17:16 #265326

  • eslaasos
  • Current streak: 1 day
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 931
  • Karma: 79
AlexEliezer wrote:
I was thinking about this topic (which I already said I shouldn't) and it occurred to me (along the lines of what Hatzileini Na wrote) that it has been discussed many times on this forum that many men here wish their wives would dress a little edgier, a little more enticing. As if that would make things easier for them. Now I don't mean to open up this topic again here, but thought it was worth mentioning.
So the very thing we want from our wives is the thing we're now complaining about (as a group).
Just saying...

I hope when guys verbalize wanting their wives to dress more enticing, they are referring only to the privacy of their home.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
My Thread    My Other Thread

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 18:47 #265343

  • AlexEliezer
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 1879
  • Karma: 54
They were referring to their everyday dress, not bedroom attire.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 21:30 #265391

  • gibbor120
  • OFFLINE
  • Platinum Boarder
  • NEVER EVER GIVE UP!
  • Posts: 5250
  • Karma: 158
WELCOME! You raise a particular issue, but is that what really brought you to this site? Why not open up about yourself? We know what you are going through, because we are going through it too.

BTW, from what I understand, most women are not dressing up for men, they are dressing up to impress other women, as funny as that sounds.

You have a point about how they dress, but you will likely get much better results from working on yourself.

If you are really committed to changing your environment, why not change shuls? I think it is unlikely that you will get very far by talking to the Rav or any other idea to change your environment.

Is this your only nissayon? Please keep posting.

Re: Appropriate Dress in Shul 08 Oct 2015 21:31 #265392

  • cordnoy
  • Current streak: 211 days
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Moderator
  • I'm sailin', for I've got to be free
  • Posts: 11281
  • Karma: 521
Hatzileini Na wrote:
Welcome aboard getting.better

I will admit I had to smile when I read your post. Not because I don't agree with you, as the way some people dress for Shul can make it tough on Shemiras Einayim, but because the I think we are holding the mirror the wrong way.

I believe that the reason so many woman are dressing this way is because of people like us, who have been obsessed with lust, have paid attention to women because of how they look, and have made that the focus of our attention for women. When a girl knows that this is the way to get a guy's attention, she will do so. When a girl feels like her self-worth is tied to her appearance, she is going to focus on that appearance.

Yes, I agree the way some of the women dress is inappropriate, and because I hate what it does to women, I hate the fact that I have likely played some role in it.

PS I recently read of a Shadchan who advocates cosmetic surgery for girls in Shidduchim to improve their chances. It may be extreme but it's a response to the realities of where so many of us are...


I disagree.
I think they mainly dress that way for themselves, their women friends and their husbands.
I think we tend to give ourselves too much credit.

I have more to say on this as well, but I will clam up for now.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.
Time to create page: 0.61 seconds

Are you sure?

Yes