this is a topic that comes up here and there pretty often and with heated debates about how working on addictions has nothing to do with tshuva and working on tshuva has nothing to do with working on addictions and then of course there are those who still have a hard time buying that or swallowing that and argue the other side or at least they want to know sof sof what is going to be with doing tshuva.... vhadvarim yiduim vacm"l
anyway I just saw today something that i thought would be of interest to some of the oilam here- an unbelievable tshuva from rav vosner to someone asking for a seder tshuvas hamishkal for aveiros that had been done continuously for many years. rav vosner brings a yismach moshe that basically says that tshuva hamishkal is only neccesary for a one time aveira or even if it was done many one times but for an addiction it is enough the tremendous effort and accomplishment of getting over the addiction! the yismach moshe says this was revealed to him in a dream. rav vosner says we don't paskin based on dreams but this we paskin because it is true! (cheilek 4 tshuva 55)
they say the gedolim of our dor sit with the beis din shel maala since they understand the nisyonos of the dor so i'm sure rav vosner is there paskining this halacha lemaaseh mamash!

wow thanks vvery powerful. I loved that vort. I will have that in mind when klapping al chait.

Oh and it came from a posuk who was very sharp about internet pasuling anyone with no filtered internet as an eidi kiddushin ,yet so understanding.

Thanks for sharing that.

Kilo,
Thanks so much.
Is there any way we can get that teshuvah scanned?
It does seem very prevalent for many here.

Thanks again.

thanks Berel,

Howbout that Maharsham?
I couldn't find it in siman 55.

My suspicion is that there are certain aveiros (ahem) that he wouldn't say this on (like the Zaide said in those teshuvos quoted....although he was referrin' to menstruant cohabitation).

I think it's supposed to say siman 58.

mistama the oilam learns the tanya's igeres hatshuva these days,
does the above yismach moshe shtim with the tanya who says a person does need a tshuva for an aveira that he did many times but he makes a pshara how to be meikel on the full amount that is necessary ayin sham v'yesh lyashev

ר’ צדוק הכהן מלובלין – צדקת הצדיק אות מג:
פעמים יש אדם עומד בניסיון גדול כל כך עד שאי אפשר לו שלא יחטא כדרך שאמרו (ברכות ל”ב א) מה יעשה הבן וכו’ ובזה הוא נחשב אונס גמור דרחמנא פטריה. וגם בהסתת היצר בתוקף עצום שאי אפשר לנצחו שייך אונס (ואם ה’ יתברך הסיב את לבו הרי אין חטא זה חטא כלל רק שרצון ה’ יתברך היה כך) ועיין מה שאמרו (כתובות נ”א בגבי תחילתו באונס אפילו צווחת לבסוף שאלמלא מניחה היא שוכרתו מותרת לבעלה, מאי טעמא יצר אלבשה הרי דזה מיחשב אונס גמור אף על פי שהוא מרצונה מכל מקום יצר גדול כזה אי אפשר באדם לכופו והוא אונס גמור ואין בזה עונש אף דעשה איסור כיון דהיה אנוס. אבל האדם עצמו אין יכול להעיד על עצמו בזה כי אולי עדיין היה לו...

Thanks! This can come in handy. Some think everything is in their bechira, and it leads to depression and to a perfectionism they cannot attain. Obviously, the last line is very important, we can never know if it was passable or not. Actually, the al chet of "b'ones" according to some means that I rationalized that I couldn't help it, it was "b'ones". So it must be applied carefully.

This thread is a Gem worth bumping!!

Thank you Mark. Hope you are well. Glad to see your going strong at being of service here at GYE. 

Hey serenity nice to see you back.

Hope you’re doing good being of service at your anonymous group in some undisclosed cave.

Maybe come out of hiding and show up here more often please?

(Dov is probably gonna kill me for all this heresy)

I'm doing well B"H. Trying to be of service when Hashem presents me with the opportunity. I was on Dov's call on Sunday and speak with him regularly - mostly with voice notes. I see him once or twice a year. He's a big blessing to the frum recovery world.

Concerning the topic here, Dov brings down a vort about how we ask for forgiveness for avanos rishonim or something like that. I forget. The question is what about the sin we just did? Why are we asking about ancient history? I think the answer was that with those early sins we still had the total choice but eventually they became habit (or maybe even addiction) so the early sins are harder to forgiven on.

kilochalu wrote on 16 Sep 2015 20:21:

Bump