Moish,

thanks for that post if I can point out one more reason though for discussing alchohlism verse lust.

Oh and just to be clear no one is saying I have experience with alchohlism but we do know certain facts of life. We do know that one can live his life without ever touching a bottle. Whereas one generally must have sex some time in his life. Exactly like you said that does not make me any more well versed as to which addiction is "harder" to tackle. because there could be another ten more difficult challenges that an alcoholic has verse a luster. But it does clarify that the animal differs.

Now as for the other reason to discuss the difference, for someone who has tried the classic recovery methods and it has not worked. For someone who did go to SA and still didn't recover. He must analyze why not and then custom tailor his solution to his problem. This is kind of why I brought this up in the first place. Atalgance liked binge drinking but learned how to cope with it. Should he try to use the same techniques for lust? Yes of course. But I am concerned that perhaps he did try and it still didn't help.

Shlomo,

No difference as in exactly the same animal? That's quite interesting. so even though
A. its easier, free and quicker to grab a dose of lust
B. A married man must still drink from the same bottle that once produced lust while a drunkard does not have to ever get near that bottle (I am not a rav but bpashtus he is pater even on purim & pesach)

Just wondering those two factors don't make the challenge vary at all?

cordnoy wrote:


Amen! Maybe a few pointers how to get there?

waydown wrote:

Is there someone on this thread with that description, or are you adding a made up person to go along with the made up notions about alcoholism?
And, as a non-alcoholic, it is very easy to believe that an alcoholic can simply abstain from the bottle. I posted a quote from an actual recovering alcoholic that lust addiction is not harder to overcome.

eslaasos wrote:


I can only talk from experience.
Read the beginning of either of my two threads, but specifically the mikvah story.
The middle as well.
Perhaps it would help if I could explain it in the philosophy of some of the deep thinkers here.
My apologies.....I cannot.
I know what is working.
I know what didn't.

Can it be explained thru logic?
Yes it can.
1. I stopped.
2. I made a commitment to stop and to get closer to God.
3. I worked and am working on my resentments, fear, pride, ego and more.
4. This accomplished several things.
A. I became closer to God.
B. I became calmer (ask my whatsapp group).
C. My focus on self diminished.
5. My bedroom behaviour (as in the contrast between where I was and where my wife was) improved drastically. (Ask my wife regarding this.....uummmm...maybe not)

B'hatzlachah

I never ever said that "an alcoholic can simply abstain from the bottle". No what I said was simply an alcoholic must do an action and/or pay money to get his bottle. Secondly, once in recovery he can technically never touch his bottle. Those are two clear distinctions.

Re "I posted a quote from an actual recovering alcoholic that lust addiction is not harder to overcome. "
Perhaps that is true or perhaps not. (Is that alchohlic also a luster?) A luster certainly has his own unique challenges. I am specifically not measuring the overall aggregate which one is harder.

waydown wrote:

Yes he is.

Ok moish Is I'll take his word for granted. I full heartedly agree that its plausible that some people (maybe many people) find alchohlism harder to overcome. Again I don't profess to know who has it overall harder. But I can list some unique challenges that a luster faces. And I suspect that there is no exclusively definitive answer were you will find an overwhelming majority feeling that way.

I would add one more unique lust challenged. Society as whole promotes lust. Whether I am driving and I see pretty ladies on billboards or whether I go to yahoo to check my e-mail or I walk in the streets of Manhattan for business. Now you will say one who truly surrenders lust is not affected by all that white noise. True but at the end of the day a shikkur who surrenders doesn't have a bottle of bozz dabbling in his face wherever he goes but a luster who surrenders has it dabbling in his face all day.

One more personal note, I have no clue if time effort & money are determents for alcoholics. I would imagine it is. But maybe the addiction is so high that its irrelevant. (Then again maybe for mid -level addicts its a deterrent? Are there different levels in alcohol? I have no clue) But I do know that its a deterrent for me the luster. While there should be more sensible reasons to hold me back from sinning, at the end of the day the fact that I have no money, limited time and have to make an effort all hold me back from committing grave sins. (I don't think those are the only reasons but its a factor in play). The problem lies in the instances when lust doesn't require time effort and money. And I think lust has that unique head to it, specifically that its so easy and free to just act out.

hi guys.  have not posted in a while.  doing well.  60 days plus clean. not boozing it up either, except for a few lechaims during the Shabbos kiddush. just cehcking in. 

ataglance12345 wrote on Unknown:

great!
L'chaim!

Ugh.   Smart phone next to the bed on the nightstand.  Tried to fight the urge to look at porn, but was not successful.  Turned on porn, seconds later hashtas zera levatala.

I am very disappointed in myself.  

It is so hard to control oneself. 

If it was not porn on a smart phone, it would be in a magazine, or jsut in my mind thinking about women I have seen.

How do I ever bring this to a complete stop?  I am not a young man, and I am still doing this? 

Embarrasing to say the least.  Shameful at worst.

I was even reading Mesillas Yesharim recently, focusing on the introduction where the Ramchal state something like "why would a sane person run after sin and risk olam haba for the seeming pleasure of this world"  It was really resonating with me.  I guess not enough.

I could use some chizuk chevray.

I am feeling like a loser, fraud and a weakling.

If you'd read kiddushin pg 81, you may not be as embarrassed

How about joining the "good night device calendar" - It's free of charge and works for me

its very simple: if you wanna go on your device there's a small knas... Or post on gye...

I would say "filter the phone" (and it's probably a good idea anyway), but like you said that wouldn't have stopped you anyway, there are so many other ways to get our "fix".maybe try reaching out to a Chaver as soon as you get the urge.

Anyhow what's done is done. Now just pick up and KOMT. You're still way ahead of where you used to be.

We dont get to pick the nisayon. We only get to deal with the nisayon we were handed. You are not a fraud if you are honestly trying to move forward. This is really hard. I wish you much Hatzlacha with your honest not fraudulent fight for Hashem. 

 

I can relate. I've had this feeling many many times. "How could this have happened again?! I was so determined!"

I'd say think about what's missing in your program and KOT.