mirror wrote on 25 May 2016 02:55:

Mirror don't kill shlomo

Shlomo I understood your question from the perspective of wondering aloud if leaving yeshiva to college was mistaken

Would you be sober if staying full time in learning?
Thats what I heard

No one answered the question yet

And the serious masmid in full time learning with Mussar and Chassidus of course (as per Skep), that has his lust YH under control, is unlikely to be on gye at all.

Go to a nice kollel or two and ask around 

That wasn't his question. Yes it's very possible that being in full time learning can help someone, even with a "big Yetzer Hora", from becoming "addicted". But he was asking if someone who is already an addict, can recover from addiction using Torah alone. That's a whole different can of worms.

recover from a concussion by putting on a helmet

jake08 wrote on 25 May 2016 03:43:

Not so famous to me, never heard that, maybe you can point out a source.

I totally agree with the sentiment however. My personal experience is that as long I was immersed in learning these problems weren't an issue. It all came after I left full time learning. even though my job still involves learning it's a far cry from being at it full time.
 

Just to clarify, Gevura wasn't 100% correct. I'm not referring to addicts. I'm exclusively referring to those on GYE, people who are needed extra chizzuk, but not necessarily losing their lives to lust. I want to know if that chevra of people have had success in turning to a bit of Torah to combat lust. An example would be a person who takes on an extra seder of Mussar, Chassidus, or Torah to combat lust. Another example would be if a person feels the urge, they go to the b"m and learn a bit until the feeling passes. I would like to know if anyone has found long-term success with similar methods. I'm referring to those who use Torah as a band-aid, not those who have completely refocused their lives on Torah. Many baalei teshuvah were promiscuous only before frumkeit, also many bochurim. That isn't what I'm referring to. (Ie: Skep and mirror missed my point).

A life revolving around Torah and immersion in Torah are known ways of helping non-addicts. But not my point.

(The bolded print is to ensure that people understand what I'm saying).

I've really been trying to stay out of this discussion but I need to point out an underlying issue here. We have been going back and forth about this type of stuff on this site. Some pointing to Torah. Others - resentfully sometimes - responding that that's not what works for us/addicts/etc. Which in turn gets the "Torah advocates" really upset and almost disbelieving that people are suggesting that Torah is not the answer. 

PLEASE let me clarify a point that can really add some clarity to this conversation. OF COURSE TORAH CAN SOLVE EVERYTHING. ITS NOT EVEN A QUESTION. THE ISSUE IS THAT WE DONT KNOW HOW TO ACCESS WHAT TORAH CAN PROVIDE. If an addict were to sit with rav yisroel salanter its highly likely that he would be able to guide him with the right approach (maybe he would say, "listen there is something called the 12 steps ). 

SO, to the Torah advocates like Mirror I say: Please don't be indignant when someone like Shlomo who has been through alot and works so hard to get where he wants to go - rejects the Torah way. He is not rejecting the Torah! He is just rejecting the premise that we know how to use the Torah for recovery. That is not kfira. And ... he might be right.

AND TO the program advocates who reject the Torah approach I say: Please be understanding that when you say something that sounds like a rejection of the Torah which contains within it all the wisdom in the world - it confuses frustrates and upsets people that don't understand that you are not disrespecting the Torah.

Thanks for listening.

realsimcha wrote on 25 May 2016 18:21:

On this thread, i have not advocated for or against. All i am saying is, that if someone very obvously does not want to try something, for whatever reason however valid it might be, fine. But why do we feel the need to attack it and discredit it for others. Maybe those who try it are delusional, maybe not. Let them try, or let them ask their sponsor, why do we need to control others by constantly bashing something that we are not doing anyway.

I have a lot to say, but most of it ain't pretty. Under guidance from my sponsor I will not be posting anymore. I do not know when I will come back. I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread, and if anyone wants to contact me you can email me, text me, or call me. I may not be able to have a conversation, but  I will at least acknowledge the reach-out.

Hatzlacha Rabah. Peace Out.

I hope you haven't u subscribed yet...


Having a sponsor is tremendous - and yours sounds really good

You will be missed

I am sorry Shlomo. 
Good luck, and i hope you can return.
(Maybe if my mirror fogs up for a bit).

For me torha learning wasn't an effective tool to fight my lust at all.

I was lusting on the way to learn and sometimes right after the learning, which only made me more frustrated.

Living up to the torah values is something that helps me more than the learning itself.

Now days I learn very little, but I try to have hashem in my mind at work, street, online, while talking to women.

So I pray and talk much more to hashem which I finds helps me.



Shlomo, what ever you do should be blessed from the one above



 

Shlomo24 wrote on 25 May 2016 20:01:


Shlomo,

I'm sorry to see you go, and I hope you'll be back. I hope you're not leaving because of this thread about Torah helping or not.

For full disclosure's sake, I don't really understand what happened here. I'm not sure why you were questioning Torah or any way for that matter. Everyone was rooting for you after your relapse, and would have expected you to come out with more modesty and humility instead of questioning and seemingly even attacking.

It almost seems like you created the conversation and then left bc you didn't like the way it went. Now, everyone else is supposed to feel guilty that they may have chased you off the site.

Why don't you just withdraw the conversation and rejoin us?

But if you're not, hatzlacha and remember you're always welcome back.

I'm in a much healthier place right now, thank god. I realized that there is certain things that I got from GYE that I didn't get from other places. I might not post as much as I used to, and I'm not getting into hashkafic arguments. The reason that I was reluctant to join is because of hashkafic differences, but I'm just not going to be part of those conversations anymore. I'm going to re-subscribe to my thread now and I'm not going to try to catch up really, just a couple things maybe. I had an incredibly spiritual experience today which also motivated me to rejoin. I finally became a greatful sex addict and realized truly that all the pain I went through was necessary for me to be in the place I am right now, which is amazing. Also, a big motivation was Total Giver, I'm not sure if that's his username, but he deserves a shout out. He showed me what I'm missing in terms of giving over ESH to others. 

PS: Gevura is one if the lamed vav tzadikim.

happy to see you back.

Welcome back. It's great to see your name again.
What is ESH?
And i agree about Gevura.