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TOPIC: Attraction with men 8546 Views

Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 05:30 #323919

Igros Moshe (O.H. 4:115)The first thing you need to know is that homosexuality has the severe punishment of stoning and kares ... [deleted by the editor] ... The greatest advice to overcome this is to learn Torah in depth. This will save and guard you from all sins – even from the thoughts of sins as the Rambam states at the end of Hilchos Issurei Bi’ah: “Greater than all this, turn oneself and ones thoughts to words of Torah and expand one’s mind in wisdom.” So surely this will save you from the yetzer harah...
Last Edit: 19 Dec 2017 06:50 by obormottel. Reason: shaming others is not helpful and is not the derech of GYE

Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 07:09 #323923

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Regarding kessler990 - the person who has come back in ten different incarnations to shame, name-call, threaten, and otherwise badmouth those of our community who struggle with same-sex attraction (myself included) - I would like to state the following:
It is quite clear that he suffers from "projective identification." This is a phenomenon known to psychologists since Freud's times (in fact, one of the first defense mechanisms that Freud has discovered). It means that a person has something about himself that he hates so much, that to admit it (even to himself) would cause a psychic break-down. So his psyche protects itself by "projecting" this identification on others, where it is safe to confront it. Ironically, the classic example of projective identification that psychology books offer is someone with "homosexual attractions" who becomes a "warrior for sexual purity" and a gay-basher.
In the Torah vernacular, we say "kol hapoisel, b'mumoi poisel." So the Jews have known of this phenomenon for many years before Freud. Nevertheless, it is nice to have a researched backing for this assertion.
It is not the GYE way to shame anyone, and certainly not to call for fire and brimstone on anyone, let alone on those who come here for help. This individual intends to inflict pain on our members because he can not stand his own affliction. May G-d Almighty bless him with speedy recovery. 
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Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 16:06 #323937

  • shlomo24
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obormottel wrote on 19 Dec 2017 07:09:
Regarding kessler990 - the person who has come back in ten different incarnations to shame, name-call, threaten, and otherwise badmouth those of our community who struggle with same-sex attraction (myself included) - I would like to state the following:
It is quite clear that he suffers from "projective identification." This is a phenomenon known to psychologists since Freud's times (in fact, one of the first defense mechanisms that Freud has discovered). It means that a person has something about himself that he hates so much, that to admit it (even to himself) would cause a psychic break-down. So his psyche protects itself by "projecting" this identification on others, where it is safe to confront it. Ironically, the classic example of projective identification that psychology books offer is someone with "homosexual attractions" who becomes a "warrior for sexual purity" and a gay-basher.
In the Torah vernacular, we say "kol hapoisel, b'mumoi poisel." So the Jews have known of this phenomenon for many years before Freud. Nevertheless, it is nice to have a researched backing for this assertion.
It is not the GYE way to shame anyone, and certainly not to call for fire and brimstone on anyone, let alone on those who come here for help. This individual intends to inflict pain on our members because he can not stand his own affliction. May G-d Almighty bless him with speedy recovery. 

I was just telling a friend the same thing. Glad we're on board.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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Last Edit: 20 Dec 2017 06:40 by obormottel.

Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 16:27 #323939

  • youcan
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Hey! Shlomo, this is what he posted here but the moderator deleted most of the post...

Dear mod, please take care of Shlomo's post as well

Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 16:50 #323941

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Shlomo24 wrote on 19 Dec 2017 16:06:

obormottel wrote on 19 Dec 2017 07:09:
Regarding kessler990 - the person who has come back in ten different incarnations to shame, name-call, threaten, and otherwise badmouth those of our community who struggle with same-sex attraction (myself included) - I would like to state the following:
It is quite clear that he suffers from "projective identification." This is a phenomenon known to psychologists since Freud's times (in fact, one of the first defense mechanisms that Freud has discovered). It means that a person has something about himself that he hates so much, that to admit it (even to himself) would cause a psychic break-down. So his psyche protects itself by "projecting" this identification on others, where it is safe to confront it. Ironically, the classic example of projective identification that psychology books offer is someone with "homosexual attractions" who becomes a "warrior for sexual purity" and a gay-basher.
In the Torah vernacular, we say "kol hapoisel, b'mumoi poisel." So the Jews have known of this phenomenon for many years before Freud. Nevertheless, it is nice to have a researched backing for this assertion.
It is not the GYE way to shame anyone, and certainly not to call for fire and brimstone on anyone, let alone on those who come here for help. This individual intends to inflict pain on our members because he can not stand his own affliction. May G-d Almighty bless him with speedy recovery. 

I was just telling a friend the same thing. Glad we're on board. 

He also sent me this: "Igros Moshe(O.H. 4:115): The first thing you need to know is that homosexuality has the severe punishment of stoning and kares and it is also called disgusting by the Torah itself. It is one of the most debased sins and it even is prohibited for non‑Jews. This knowledge is a strong bulwark against the yetzer harah. Secondly it is inexplicable that there should be a lust for it. That is because in the creation of man himself there is no natural lust for homosexuality… The desire for homosexual relations is against natural&nb sp;lust nbsp;and even the wicked do not have a desire for it itself. Rather their entire desire for it is only because it is something prohibited and the yetzer harah seduces them to rebel against the will of G‑d. This knowledge of what is the will of G‑d is a powerful protection against the yetzer harah. You have already defeated the yetzer harah in that you believe in G‑d and all the 13 principles of faith and the entire Torah. With this you can defeat the yetzer harah in this that it seduces you to rebel agai nst&nbs ;G‑d and to anger Him. There is an explicit verse in HaAzinu “That with abominations they provoke Him to anger” [Devarim 32:16] Rashi says an example is homosexuality which is a sin which causes G‑d’s anger. He also says this regarding magic which interferes with the Heavenly family as is stated in Sanhedrin (67b). Thus the explanation of this verse is that it causes you to deny the decrees of Heaven and to act to anger G‑d – chas veshalom! The third thing is that homosexuality is an embarrassment even to the c ommon&n sp;man. Because the entire world – even the wicked - ridicule those who are homosexuals. Even in the eyes of the wicked who participate in these acts, he looks down on the one who did it with him and ridicules and insults him. This awareness will greatly strengthen you against the yezter harah. …Awareness of how debasing a sin is, is a good advice to strengthen oneself against the desire to do a sin which is disgusting and ridiculed such as this one. Because not only is it against the Torah which prohibits it w ith&nbs ;the most severe punishment, but it is also the greatest embarrassment to his whole family. The greatest advice to overcome this is to learn Torah in depth. This will save and guard you from all sins – even from the thoughts of sins as the Rambam states at the end of Hilchos Issurei Bi’ah: “Greater than all this, turn oneself and ones thoughts to words of Torah and expand one’s mind in wisdom.” So surely this will save you from the yetzer harah of this despised sin."

It was so inspiring. I'm sure he really has my best interests in mind. First he calls me not nice names and then sends me mussar! Best day ever!

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Re: Attraction with men 19 Dec 2017 22:55 #323956

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Shlomo24 wrote on 19 Dec 2017 16:06:


...
Because the entire world – even the wicked - ridicule those who are homosexuals. Even in the eyes of the wicked who participate in these acts, he looks down on the one who did it with him and ridicules and insults him. This awareness will greatly strengthen you against the yezter harah. …

It was so inspiring. I'm sure he really has my best interests in mind. First he calls me not nice names and then sends me mussar! Best day ever!

Shlomo, The part that is inspiring is the way you just move on. It doesn't seem like he was able to affect you. I bolded one of his sentences. Perhaps he was trying to hint why he is waging an all out war...
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Re: Attraction with men 20 Dec 2017 06:13 #323967

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Re: Attraction with men 21 Dec 2017 07:35 #324060

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lionking wrote on 19 Dec 2017 22:55:

Shlomo24 wrote on 19 Dec 2017 16:06:


...
Because the entire world – even the wicked - ridicule those who are homosexuals. Even in the eyes of the wicked who participate in these acts, he looks down on the one who did it with him and ridicules and insults him. This awareness will greatly strengthen you against the yezter harah. …

It was so inspiring. I'm sure he really has my best interests in mind. First he calls me not nice names and then sends me mussar! Best day ever!

Shlomo, The part that is inspiring is the way you just move on. It doesn't seem like he was able to affect you. I bolded one of his sentences. Perhaps he was trying to hint why he is waging an all out war...

I would love to say that I just move on. But I don't. I have learned in recovery how to move on. But if I don't do those actions then I will be stuck in my head. What my tormentor said hurts. It really does. Is there something good that's going to come out of this? I don't know. But I do know that God has never done anything negative to me in my life and I am inclined to believe that this is for the best also. 
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com

Re: Attraction with men 26 Dec 2017 14:41 #324205

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OM, just seeing you post again brought a smile to my face .  How are you doing my friend?
Last Edit: 26 Dec 2017 14:44 by gibbor120.

Re: Attraction with men 27 Dec 2017 07:09 #324249

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Thanks! Doing fine, still sober since we spoke last, thank G-d. Wish I had posted for a different reason but this guy was asking for it for a long time now.
Baby steps.
If the road is pulling you down, it's a sign that you are going uphill, so just press harder on the gas!

Have a great day - unless, of course, you made other plans.
Last Edit: 27 Dec 2017 07:10 by obormottel.
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