I disagree with Websters. Sorry. Although, I do think that is the way most people think about it, especially in our society where the basic rule of morality is "As long as you do not harm another - anything goes". I think one can be selfish even if it does not harm another.

Secondly, everything we do has a spiritual impact on the world, so we are doing damage to others (and ourselves as well). Very often, especially with lust, others do get hurt even on a non-spiritual level.

Yes, the guy eating kugel is doing something selfish, and most of us do tons of selfish things. I don't know anyone living kulo l'shem shomayim. I didn't say we should never do anything selfish. I don't thinik it's possible. Just recognize it for what it is.

My disagreement is only (1) about the definition of the word "selfish", and (2) the fact that acting out in private hurts no one.

If you are doing well, and happy with your mehalech, and it's working - great!

Some of us have found that working to focus on another (including G-d) has helped.

gibbor120 wrote:


gibbor, Websters actually agrees with you.
It is also referred to as bein' self-centered.

Cordnoy,

That's not true please don't try to mix up the truth. Webster very clearly states what selfish or self-centered again here is the copy & paste of self centered,

Simple Definition of self–centered
too interested in yourself and not caring about the needs or feelings of other people.

Its very clear that its in the context of hurting others. Sorry if that contradicts what the holy SA books say. But please don't distort the truth.

I should note Gibbor120 makes a valid point and I don't contend that its sacred to argue on the holy Webster if you'd like. Gibbor does admit that its not the typical "normal" definition of selfish. Although I personally disagree with Gibbor I understand and get his point.

When someone masturbates, he is interested in his needs and he's not interested in the needs of others.

That is the exact definition of self centered.

Hypothetically, if someone would be selfish or self centered, he probably wouldn't understand the above.

A group of people were traveling in a boat. One of them took a drill and began to drill a hole beneath himself.

His companions said to him: "Why are you doing this?" Replied the man: "What concern is it of yours? Am I not drilling under my own place?"

Said they to him: "But you will flood the boat for us all!" (Quoted in Midrash Rabbah, Vayikra 4:6).

"When someone masturbates, he is interested in his needs and he's not interested in the needs of others."

Who says he is not interested in others??? What makes you say that? Do you mean if one is married he is betraying his wife? Maybe. But how about one who is single?. He is simply interested in satisfying himself. That does not mean he is not interested in others. (In fact I have had times where in middle of masturbation I got up to help my kids. I do not see the two as a contradiction.)

Furthermore, if he is addicted he does not want to hurt others. He is defintley interested in the needs of others.He is simply addicted. Thus I would venture to say even if he does hurt others while yes its selfish its a low level of selfish ( a very narrow term and stretch of the word selfish)since he is addicted, has limited control and feels bad about hurting others.

I would compare it somewhat to cigarettes. Doesn't one realize that he will hurt his wife & kids in the long run and may die young? Is he selfish? How about the many gedolim that smoked even after studies came out that it was unhealthy? (yes some quit but others didn't) Some of them were the biggest bali chasadim and totally ibbergigben people. Just they had an addiction. And this comes to the core of Gibbors argument too. Even if its just satisfying oneself why didn't these gedolim say we don't need cigarettes. We won't die without them. Because if one quits smoking he gets headaches and can't learn and function normal. Very similar to one who can't sleep without his dose of lust. Is that selfish?

Skeptical are you saying that as yidden we are all on one boat thus by lusting we are hurting others? very true. So from a jewish perspective any sin hurts others. So if I say loshon hara I am selfish because I hurt others and m only doing it to satisfy myself?
(maybe that's why loshon hara is my fav averio after lust bec I am sefish guy? Who knows. There may be some connection between kedushas hapeh and kedushas enim.)
So then it becomes a jewish argument. Fair enough.

If your current life is normal, I wouldn't dare suggest you change it, in case you get headaches...

Just please don't say lashon hara that everyone in the religious world has the same normality that you do

Bottom line Cords,

who says and why is a single guy hurting or not interested in others feelings while he masterbates?

Waydown, may I quote a gemara?

Markz,

I got a good M Shabbos. I love your humor and musser together. You have a great writing style. I clicked the thank you button for you !

Now in all honesty, Re "If your current life is normal"
1) Its normal but can spiral out of control any time I am not on my feet
2) Its just too bad. I am a frum yid and I am not allowed to commit the sins I do. So I must stop

Re "Just please don't say lashon hara that everyone in the religious world has the same normality that you do"
I don't want to open old wounds. But 1) I never said "everyone" has the same normality that I have 2) I happen to have an obsession with lust. That is not the "normal" albeit I think more common than many admit. What I did say was that "many" dabble with lust. Not that they have an obsession with it. But they do appreciate very pretty wives so that they can lust (or don't call its lust rather call it have additional pleasure on top of just plain love and giving during marriage). And that's why many boys put pretty girls as the number one requirement on their shidduch list. That doesn't mean that they don't come to their senses and settle for less. But there is a reason its #1 on the list.
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Markz,

gemara's are always tough to apply now-days. In fact I think of the gerrer rebas once said you take care of the other taivosw and don't worry about tavious achila. Its less stringent than other tavious(it could be I am mixing up the rebas)

Besides that gemara will get a lot of overnight Kugel fresers in trouble. In fact our little secret I ate gala (petcha) by a Kiddush today. If my wife would know its second to my lust problem.... SH!!!! SH!!!! Our little secret!

The only lifeline we have to anything is Gemara - we need a Rebbe to teach us how to apply BUT we cant mach avek in gansen

Do yourself a favor if you never read R' Yerucham zl - read what he says about the afore mentioned Gemara in P Yisro

It's incredible!!!!

And relevant to the year 2016 Lemisparam י״ש

The point was if my primary intent in tashmish is my selfishness then Im considered a posh(ea)

If my intent is to benefit someone else, I am considered a tzaddik

If my intent is to ignore gemara I'm a jerk