Guys I need some ideas how to overcome my yetzer for tonite. As I have posted before I normally fall asleep via J/O. And if I wake up in middle of the nite I'll do it again. Any ideas how not to? So far for starteres read something clean before sleeping.

I will be on only for another hour or two. I do not want log in to the internet once I get home from shul even if its just for GYE. Its just too dangerous.Thus the urgency

waydown wrote:


Sir, does this behaviour bother you at all?

Look at the comments in the other thread. Did you see the one that was written by Serenity? Take a note book and write out and answer all those questions. Spend an hour on it and repeat it every night. Do the morning exercise as well.

Sernity which thread are you refering to? Do you mean my last elul thread? If yes then those are novel ideas but I need help for tonite. Yes I need a long term plan but I also want an emergency room quick plan for the time being. In fact Sundays are always my hardest day not to act out.If you are refering to another thread please let me know.

As I outlined in my last thread yes this behavior bothers me. But as is so eloquently pointed out many time son this forum, an addict has no control overhimself. So i need ideas how to stop it.

Yes I know some of you may be annoyed why I started a replicate post. (After all my elul post is the same) I did it because the elul post has many pointers important to discuss but this is the most urgent and too the point for now. So both are worthwhile posts.

That will help for tonight. And thanks for the compliment, but it's not a novel idea. It's part of what many of us will do tonight to stay sober.

Ok serenity so help me out on this one;

When we retire at night, we constructively review
our day. Were we resentful, selfish, dishonest or
afraid? Do we owe an apology?Have we kept something
to ourselves which should be discussed with
another person at once? Were we kind and loving
toward all?
No I was actually very unselfish today whether it was taking care of my kids or helping others. No dishonesty today. Thanks to GYE no porn or flirting today. Thankfully no apology owed today. i have not kept anything to myself today. In fact that question is funny. Because today I was very honset with my divorced realtive about some of my struggles. I was extra kind & loving more than usual toady!

What could we have done better?

That needs thought as there is no such thing as perfect. We can always do better.

Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were
we thinking of what we could do for others, of
what we could pack into the stream of life?

No I was not thinking about myself. I spent most of the day helping others

I am not sure how all this helps us from J/O stuff.

As a side point, it seems that there is a suggestion that one who is into J/O girls M'Z is selfish,self centered, uncaring and unkind. I understood from chazal that the yetzer for zenus comes from the middas hachesed. In fact, I perosnally am a very kind person. All those that know me know that the can reach out to me when they need help and I will oblige. My wife loves me for being such a great ibbergegiben husband. I am not that mean self centered "I" type of guy. That kind of fits with the chazal I know. That bali chasadim have the yetzer even stronger. Will getting rid of the addiction enable me to do more chesed both with my wife and others? sure. And it will also allow me to earn more torah and daven better too. I just don't see the "I" as the root cause of my problem. It may be the cause for some people so I am not chas vasholom knocking the theory but thats not my shorosh.

Writing it out is more helpful. Also it's saying to do it when we ready for sleep, when we retire at night. I was kind of offering as something to do at the times you usually end up masturbating. We are supposed to make a chesbon hanefesh anyway. I agree and have found that a lot of sex addicts and addicts in general are also kind people. You can be kind and still be very selfish. The very act of masturbation is a selfish act. It may be one of the most selfish acts that you can do. It only benefits you and when it hurts other people, then it is not only selfish it is self-seeking.

By the way, when you are willing to do something for sobriety that doesn't necessarily make sense to you, that willingness alone will help you.

I guess it may help to look at your answers some more, who knows.

No I was actually very unselfish today whether it was taking care of my kids or helping others.

Why did you take care of your kids ans help others today? Was there a benefit to you in doing that?

No dishonesty today.

Not saying that's not possible, but it's hard to imagine. By honesty, we don't only mean with overt acts, but there are also acts of omission. Did you hold yourself to be anything your not? act nice to someone you don't like? Pretend to be holier than you are>? Anything?

Thanks to GYE no porn or flirting today.

That's great to hear!



Thankfully no apology owed today. i have not kept anything to myself today. In fact that question is funny. Because today I was very honest with my divorced relative about some of my struggles. I was extra kind & loving more than usual toady!

That's all wonderful as well. With this exercise, we are also acknowledging our good! Look at how honest caring and good we have been all day. It's pas nisht for us to go do a selfish, self seeking act at the end of all that.

What could we have done better?

That needs thought as there is no such thing as perfect. We can always do better.

Were we thinking of ourselves most of the time? Or were
we thinking of what we could do for others, of
what we could pack into the stream of life?

No I was not thinking about myself. I spent most of the day helping others

What benefit was there to you in helping others? Also yes, wonderful acknowledge that!

By the way, would the people you are helping look differently at you, if they knew you were a compulsive masturbater and watched porn while your wife is sleeping?

Firstly and foremostly great news I was clean last nite! Some of you will say big deal. But for me it is. I am almost nevr clean unless I have fever. It was tough as ywisted and turned often since I was mssing that addiction. But I did it. I guess I can also thank Cordony since he challenges my sincerty. And I had to prove him.

Re; Why did you take care of your kids ans help others today? Was there a benefit to you in doing that?

I am not sure what you are suggesting. But yes there was a benefit. All parties that were helped out were mes mitzvas that what have been lost without my help. And I do believe that the children should see their ta helping others in need. No it wasn't at their expense. Some of the chesed was done while my wife took the older ones out shopping and I was watching and feeding my baby. Others were done when they were around but not at all on their expense.

Re the concept of we are suppose to make a cheshbon hanefesh anyhow. Its true and emes. But the problem with using that as a tool to avoid Z"L is the following. I ain't no big tzadik and like most people I need chill time. When I go to sleep I am not interested in jewish stuff (Nor as some suggested am I interested in learning torah or listenng to a shuir while I fall asleep) I have very long hard days and I like to chill at nite. Should I be more religious and do the stuff you perscribed? Sure I should be. But its kind of a big leap and my yetzer hara won't go for that now. I think its a little unpractical for simple people like me. We need good chiller ideas. I just want to repeat I am not knocking your suggestion. That is what we should be doing. But i think its too lofty for us simpletons.

Re "The very act of masturbation is a selfish act. It may be one of the most selfish acts that you can do. It only benefits you and when it hurts other people"

Firstly, why does it hurt others? Why is it anyones business what I do privately. yes you'll tell me it hurts my wife. But why? It only hurts her because it usually doesn;'t stop at masterbation. But i disagree that mastrbation hurts her. Say I masterbate about her what am I doing against her? Even if it is another women there is wiggle room to debate this. My wife knows I am human. She understands that men have a tavia for women.

Secondly, I totally beg to differ with the selfish concept. My masterbating is pure itch. I have said this many times. Its a crazy urge almost like I have to go to the bathroom. Its not at all as many suggested that its an "I" problem. Of course yes "I" am the one who has the urge and needs to be satsified. But its not any differnet than eating supper. "I" a hungry and need to eat. So "I' have an urge and need to release it. Are we slefish when we eat supper. It just doesn't fit with the narritive of selfishness. That doesn't make the averia less severe. I just don't think its selfish. In fact, the reason, I have nt done full blown averios and I I joined GYE is because I care about my wife & kids. (I always said if I'd be single I would do alot more at this point!) Its preicesily because I am unselfish that I am trying to change. I don't believe that the act of masterbating is selfish. Its simple an inhernet addictive uncotrollable tavia.

Guys I am looking for solutions hot so stay clean again tonite!!

waydown wrote:


I did not challenge your sincerity; i challenged your motives.

Like you wrote in the last post.....what's so bad about masturbatin' that you're lookin' for a fix?

What's so bad?

Firstly, Its assur and I am jewish whether I understand from a moral standpoint or not. So halchacally I must stop.
Secondly and perhaps more importantly, its not the masterbation in itself that distrubes me. Rather its the effects that it has on me outside of when I actually J/O. Those effects are; 1) You become entangled and obssesed with the addiction. Its on your mind all day. It disturbs your daily balance and you can't work or enjoy family life without thinikng about it. It nagges you and causes you to pursue it at all time sof the day. 2) Even worse, Your tavia is never satiated. You are always looking how you can satisfy this tavia even more and more. So it moves from just a thought process to action. You start browsing the web for shmutz. Then when thats not enough you will eventually start going places that service your tavia and the lo elinu having extramarrietal affairs. As I pointed out in prior posts there are nebach certain jewish groups that live so unsettling and so empty by constantlty chasing after their empty tavious. I learned about this first hand over shabbos. To me its frightening and thats a wake up call.
So I want to tackle M"Z and J/O because its ruinning my life and even worse, moving forward, it can seriously reck havoic . I feel that even if the actual J/O is not the worse thing in the world , its what it leads too thats diastorous. Unless one quelches his lust (which will never happen while he his J/O after all thats where it all starts) he is destined to fall.

All I was suggesting is that one can J/O thinking about his wife too. (And my wife is good looking) So from a logical standpoint J/O doesn't have to be an act of selfsihness or cheating. But its still wrong. Why? Because of my 3 reasons listed above. 1) its assur 2) it takes over your life 3) it leads to worse stuff.

So again I need help stopping it. Please provide etzias for tonight.

Cordony, Do you still question my motives?

Oh and I love kovod. (My rov once claimed that usually us young guys have a tavia for money. Only when we reach like 40/50 does kovod creep in! But I love it at a young age too! LOL!) So I will galdly accept compliments for holding myself back last nite!

hi waydown.
The or hachaim hakodosh writes that this tayva is unlike any other taiva in that there is absolutely no way to naturally overcome this. The only method is simply to cry to hashem to help you recognize that this test is an illusion.As its really only hashem behind the test as-Ein od milvado. That is all. If the results werent 'successful" that is just a impetus to further daven etc. Of course you should accompany along with the tefilos, actions and thoughts that keep you busy and take your mind off it etc, but those arent your weapons. Your weapon is what the or hachaim says.

Any perceived failures, are purely the yetzer horas weapons, being that you did what was expected of you in terms of calling out to hashem.

This work on this tayva is what al the sifrei chasidus and the zohar write is the depth of why we are in golus and this is our mission down here to whatever degree of success we experience both quantitively and qualititively.

Thanks I never knew that ohr hachaim its a souce of great chizuk for me. And you should know that before I went to sleep last nite I said a kapital tehlim to hashem to help me and he did, despite how hard it was. The truth is we really ask hashem for help during hamipal and krias shima al hamita perhaps that it would be nice to say it with a bit more kavana from a siddur than my typical mumble jumbo. (Its only about two min of extra effort) That will certainlly help us well.

I wull defintley pursue tefila with more vigor as one of my war tools thanks to your advice! However, there is no magic bullet. I am still collecting ideas for tonight

waydown wrote:


Thanks for answerin'
Well-written
and kudos for holdin' back last night.

I will focus purely on # 2, and use one word: unmanageable.

In that case, i ask you; are you interested in a program that can restore your life to become manageable again?