shua73 wrote:


Want to be in charge?
Have you seen step 1?

b'hatzlachah

[/quote]

Want to be in charge?
Have you seen step 1?

b'hatzlachah[/quote]

You're right. I meant I don't have to give in. It's up to me to say no. what's pushing me to do it is a delusion. I'm telling myself I need it and that it will help me overcome whatever is bothering me, but that's not true.

Do you think that is a healthy approach?
Anyone can answer.

Can someone explain to me why giving yourself over to G-d works better than just fighting the addiction? My personal experience concurs with the principle that giving yourself over works better. However, I was wondering why that is. What about it makes it work better?

I'm not sure where I'm getting this from. Perhaps someone else can provide a program source, but here is what comes to mind. We addicts need God to help to remove our obsession with lust and our character defects. Our humility allows God into our lives. Our ego puts up a wall between us and God. Surrender is a form of humility.

serenity - so well put. The program could not articulate it better.

I have read over your words a number of times.

Do they not form the most fundamental attitude toward sobriety and a successful life in general?

So I was wondering, how can the 90 days work if the addiction is in my head? Shouldn't I have to be clean for 90 days without even thinking anything bad?

Here is what GYE says about 90 days:

"Scientific studies show that it takes 90 days to change the neuron pathways created by addictive behaviors in the brain. It was shown that if an addict refrains from their addictive behavior for 90 days, they will find it far easier to stop the addictive thought patterns."

That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. It just gets a bit easier over time. 90 days is a nice goal, and after staying clean that long it gets easier. Of course, acting out will make it harder again. Fantasizing feeds addiction, and will also make it harder. It is not magic, success does not mean that one is "cured". But, it's nice to know that it can get "easier".

To answer your first question, we need Hashem's help because we need to realize that nothing in our lives happens without His doing. A big part of acting out is a desperate but fruitless attempt to change some aspect of our lives. When we accept that everything happens because of Him and only for our benefit we can accept those parts of our lives we wish to change. With that realization we can find the strength to suceed and not give in to our desires and find a healthier approach to improve our lives. At least that works for me.

As to why 90 days. For me there are two aspects of my addiction. The force of habit and the obsession. The obsession takes real work and trial and error and introspection. The habit just takes not doing it. I always had two sources to acting out. One was as medication (the obsession) the other because that is jist what I do when I am bored (habit). So the 90 days helps break that cycle of acting out because that is just what I do.

MBJ wrote:


Thank you very much. I now understand it much better.

I finally realize after reading the white book why the chart is the way it is. gonna use the official criteria and not try to be more machmir. As MBJ wrote; there are two parts....

I am realizing that I am not up to being 90 days without lust yet. That comes eventually with time and hard work. I am capable, on the other hand, of going 90 days without acting out. I thought I can just follow all the rules, and poof, I would be cured. Not that I now feel disappointed that it won't just go away that easily. I feel much better, because now I realize that this addiction is my "medicine" for my issues. And if I get rid of it, I will be able to figure out a healthy way to deal with them; giving me what I am searching for: a way to be a well balanced person. One who is not only understanding and considerate of others but who also is capable and confident in his relationships.

hi. i read your blog until now, and this is my take - just one man's opinion: you are trying to fight acting out, and ultimately fight lust. my brothers are telling you not to fight lust. lust is stronger, and he will most likely eventually win when matched against us. sure, we may push lust around a little, perhaps keep him in a headlock for some time. but he is bigger, meaner, and a dirtier fighter than us. period. either he will break out of our headlock, or he will trick us into letting him out. ultimately, we will lose.
but we have a daddy. and our daddy is even bigger than lust. and he has the power to restore us to sanity. what my brothers are saying is surrender you self to him, and let him fight for you. the 12 step program will show you how (depending on where you are holding there is torah shebichtav and shebaal peh from sponsor to sponsee on the subject. there is material in the gye handbook, there are phone conferences etc.). learning to sit back and let daddy fight the bully for you is the way to succeed long term. because if you spend the next 90 days or whatever "edging" on acting out and being miserable and tense over the gorilla you have in banging around in your cage, guess what's gonna happen after 90 days? (assuming you make it that far).

avoid the battle altogether. we are not cut out for it. just one man's opinion. atta achi va-ani ohev ot-cha.

Please allow me to make a point as a follow up of the previous post.
I will not argue that we have to trust in our Abba to succeed. But sometimes I think people throw out the don't fight lust because it is too strong as a slogan and they don't really know what it means.

I didn't fight lust for 20 years and then I was watching porn for a few hours every night and masturbating at least once a day. Even when I thought I was fighting lust I really wasn't I was pretending to fight and it was taunting me. That is the problem. Not that we shouldn't fight lust but that we have to learn how to fight lust. The way to fight lust is not to treat the symptoms, i.e. the desire to masturbate or surf porn or go to prostitutes or whatever. The way to fight lust is to treat the source of our desire.

I am not saying that is easy and I am sure that everyone has their own special flavor of what that means, but that is the fight me must do. However exactly the treatment of the source goes it has to end up with trust in the RBS"O. That is the only way to realy succeed.

I think when people talk about fighting they are refering to the will power struggle. I will agree that is futile since you sre fighting yourselfband no one knows you better and your weaknesses. But I stil have to make a decision everyday to trust in Hashem and not let my isolation and depression overcome me. Everyday I have to tell myself that only He knows what I need and He loves me more that I can fathom. This fight is a fight of calm. It is a fight that doesn't absorb blows but absorbs love. So it doesn't feel like a fight when you are doing it. But that decision to not give in to our baser instincts must occur and therein is the struggle.

Shua, with G-d's help will get there. I have been workingbthis approach for 3 years now and I am still not there. But I am slowly walking there. Making progress baby step by baby step. (That really is an apt metaphor on so many levels.)

Anyway sorry for rambling so much. This is therapy for me too. Sometimes you have to white knuckle it. What you have to realize is that there is a better way, keep at it and you will get there.

MBJ - very nicely clarified.

Wow, there are some great insights in this thread. I've struggled with the distinction between letting go and controlling, and still haven't mastered the former by any stretch. But, in practical terms, as a matter of protocol, when lust rears its face, and I'm lucky enough to have time to avoid it, I try to beseech HaShem to take the desire away from me. It doesn't always work; I don't have the right mindset all the time. But I've noted definite improvement and a slow trend toward not being as dependent on acting out. I'm not batting 1000 yet, but I'm striking out a lot less than before I implemented this stuff.

So my advice is not to wait until you understand and internalize the process of relinquishing control. Ask for HaShem to take your lust away, even if you don't feel it's sincere. Going through the motions works.

Well I just fell a couple minutes ago and I am ready to try again. Gotta get in touch with my sponsor who I have not spoken to in a while. I can now accept that I am just like everyone else here and I must follow the steps completely. Gonna update as I learn new things. In case anyone is wondering I am the usual, you know thinking that I dont need the whole program.... but I got it finally. I do. and I am starting now.