laughingman wrote on 22 Feb 2016 21:14:



Well that certainly is a mouthful or a screenful LM. I can't comment on all of it at this time, and some of it I don't think I would comment on at all. But what you say regarding the ruchniyus aspect of it really resonates. I also only 'feel' bad when I ejaculate. But that is wrong. It is the frummy in me. My real problem is using lust in any way. From the first look, to beginning to lust and delve into thoughts or images.. to masturbation. Even just starting it... That is where I have crossed the line into acting out- acting on my lust. Seeing it here in black and white makes me realize how much I have been going about this the wrong way by only getting upset at myself when I 'finish" 

This is because... If I only feel guilty when I finish, I can start because maybe I won't finish... right!? What usually winds up happening is that I finish in any case which is bad and I feel guilty. When I don't finish, I go away and think I am ok... But I am really not. I just lusted, and for me that was not 'just' an aveira, but acting on a set of internal compulsions that will ultimately kill me. Just like a drug addict dies from his addiction, and an alcoholic may die from his... mine will lead me to death. Maybe through disease, maybe through looking just a little too long at a billboard or another driver while on the highway... maybe by keeping mein constant depression which will of course lead to other health problems.. But it will kill me.

 Really I need to understand that the starting is the problem. The masturbation is already acting out for me and any masturbation addict. Even before masturbating I am acting out. And that is what I need a support group and other addicts to help me recover from.

What does NOT work for me, EVER is thinking about punishment. Gehinom, Yom Kippur, knassing myself.. all that stuff just has me glazing my eyes over in depression and it doesn't get me toward not acting out. Sure feels bad... Makes me believe I am committing... but never improved a bit. Not one bit from it. 

I mean ti me it is an inspiration that you had sobriety and lost it and came back... Right now I need that inspiration. I had a good stretch of sobriety, lost it and really lost it... and now I want to come back. Seeing others working recovery, even slipping back into acting out sometimes but still getting back to working recovery is what it takes for me to believe I can do it too. 

If you are an addict, which you sound like you may be... you are sick. Sick means you need to get medicine. I don't believe Hashem will punish me for being sick... He made me sick and knows how sick I am... but for not taking my medicine, I can be held accountable. 
 

laughingman wrote on 22 Feb 2016 21:14:


LM,
Whoa, it sounds like you're in a lot of emotional pain. It hurts my heart to read it because you sound like a real neshama. Something about your post and the deep honesty and emotion in it just really pulls at my emotion and makes me feel for you.

The progress you describe is huge, and you can't jinx it bc it didn't come by accident- it sounds like you've either worked on it or come to some sort of realization.

So many of us have been on and off the wagon, and since someone is always falling off, there's always an empty seat- so hop on! The chevra here can definitely help you tons.

Let us know how we can help.

LM... Man you need to Laugh......  pls let me know if you contacted guard yet or ask Dov.... therapy is worthwhile... and helps many many many of us here... and other stuff helps too... it really pains me what you're going thru... hurts me how you beat yourself because of it.... and relief is around the corner...... are you ready to turn it...

markz wrote on 23 Feb 2016 02:35:


Seems like I've seen this kind of posting.....not sure where.....Markz, you're really something else. And I love having back the old signature- that new one didn't do it for me, although the revolving sign was pretty cool.

Thank you all ...its nice that soo many people anticipate these posts of mine .....i actually feel alot better as a whole, although i still struggle ...but i feel slightly lighter, but not for the past mistakes....

 

Im not even sure why i post anymore ......when i first started this thread .....had i taken in what was my real problems ......i donno .....it doesnt matter .....i dont know if theres a point to anything i do ......when i was younger i swore up and down i would accomplish certain things ....and here i am ....in my 30s ...and not only havent i accomplished the positive things i wanted to but i flushed whatever i could have done ....i just kept thinking "i have time" but i ran outa time about 3 years ago .....i just wish G-d would end it all now .....i dont understand why im still alive ....just to suffer more? ...i cant leave, i have not many if anyone to talk to, i feel soo lost ......all i do here is act out ....and talk about it like im some kind of hero .....i feel like such a jerk .....at heart i am sure im some kind of good person with maybe some anger issues or bi polar .....but i never had a chance really to deal with these as a married adult ....sure when i was a kid it was easy to get pumped full of meds and get carted to whatever psych guy they had on staff .....but when i moved i had no idea how bad it was gonna get ....sure there are others who worsened things ...but my problems were my own ....and no one elses ....and i wasnt taking responsibility .....now soo many things are too late ....and my wife tells me she cant get over some things .....if you have had sa and your wife stands by you you hold onto her like shes is DIAMOND and do whatever it takes to honor her dont screw up like me ...........i dont even see hkw things could ever get better .......all i do is act out ......and let my frustration get to me ......

Thank you Laughingman for your honest share.

I was on this forum well over a year (after trying to quit for a couple of years already), acting out regularly and feeling like crap before I finally got fed up enough to do something different. I had so many people telling me that my thread helped them, but I felt terrible. My writing on this forum seemed to help other people but not me, I was still stuck acting out all the time. Why should I sacrifice myself for the forum? Should I continue as I am and write about my pain on here so that others can get chizzuk from it? Sorry but I'm not interested in being a hero, I just want to be OK.

At some point I acted out one time too many and something inside me changed. I just couldn't continue like this. I became desperate. That's when I joined SA and that's been the best thing for me.

Not that joining SA itself got me sober. I went to meetings and read the books, waiting for G-d to remove the obsession, so I wouldn't have to struggle any more, but He didn't. It was a while and another case of acting out once too many before I became desperate enough to actually do the work. Thank G-d everything in my life has become better since then.

I can relate to the feeling that it's all hopeless, what's the use. I felt that way many times. I tried so hard and fell flat on my face, so empty and defeated. But in the end it was the feeling of hopelessness that started me on the road to better things.

There's some guys older than 50 on this site in recovery, if you want you can wait till then to find a therapist or join SA, no one will tell you what to do

Were here to listen 

Ditto to the doc.
I don't believe I was suffering but I couldn't get it under control.
SA was a huge turning point for me.

We spoke once on the phone. Can we do it again?

How's it going R' Laughingman?

BTW I'd love to speak with you over the phone. You can private message me any time.

Just as long as you don't forget that you are a good man, laughy. And we like you. And we are also like you.

Lots of liking going around here...

laughingman wrote on 05 Mar 2016 21:24:

yeah I feel like this sometimes.... All i can say is keep posting and get that stuff out, posting particualrly helps me because i can read it later adn see that the feelings passed. Post, talk, listen... many in worse shape than you have recovered. You can too. 

I have been feelijg particularly down .....this week alone i acted out at least 3 times ....when i act out i let loose all feelings of selfishness and selfcenterdness ....and i recognize this in real time .....and then i go back to feeling down about what happened .....even as i at partly believe this may have started out as simply עברות it is evolving if it hasnt already into a true addiction ...that is to say i recognize this activity is not necessary and is damaging to myself and others and i am still having a hard time stopping .....at the same time i am seeing new aspects of my personality that i am working on .....like being shomer enayim without looking depressed ....like not exaggerating when i speak ....like simply telling and accepting how things are .....sometimes i feel like maybe this is all just the dark before the dawn ....but i cant see the light ....not clearly enough anyway ...also i constantly feel personally that my connection with G-d is damaged ...even taking into account that i might be doing all of this out of illness but i brought this on myself by not paying attention years back when it was easy ....i know i cant do anything about it now but i do have responsibility in this .....and how does someone go about "paying back" or doing for G-d ...whom we had to do what he tells us anyway and doesnt need our service as it is really to better ourselves .....its like someone doesnt listen to a king and the solution would be to take care of himself?!?.......

My friend - we are here to listen and feel your pain, but if you are looking for help, go to someone that charges $ to listen

Also as i try to deal with feelings of wanting to act out i find i turn to food more...any thoughts