I actually think non-addicts calling themselves addicts is a more serious problem.

Maybe i am missing something. Why does anyonecare if someone would like to have a forum that runs differently? If it helps people towards recovery, why should any of us get in the way?

Markz wrote on 19 Feb 2017 13:04:

Could be i am misunderstanding your words, but it appears you are saying the other way doesnt work. If you read my post you would read about an individual who without all this is clean for 1,000 days and spends lots of time daily on the phone helping others like himself (and me) break free and keep from falling. He just told me about a bochur that he put in touch with Dov that was in very rotten shape and Dov told him he is not an addict and needs to straighten out his life. It is now approx 500 days later and the guy is clean. Please clarify if i misunderstood. Thank you.

Watson wrote on 19 Feb 2017 13:36:

In the final analysis there should be 4 websites, and my gestimated stats, how the current membership will be split and I'm not far off

1) GYE for Addicts by addicts. 40%
2) GYE for Addicts by non addicts. 10%
3) GYE for Non Addicts by truly non addicts. 15%
4) GYE for Non Addicts by addicts. 35%

THERE ARE MEMBERS I CAN LIST TO YOU THAT ARE CLEARLY WEBSITE #4. IF GYE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PLAYGROUND WEBSITE LOVINGLY HELP GROUP 4 ON THE MERRYGOROUND CONTINUE MASTURBATING ETC... THEN I AGREE WE SHOULD MAKE A FEW MORE WEBSITES...

Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Feb 2017 13:56:


It may help the 15% to have separate website, or it may not
It will DEFINITELY inhibit the 35% from recovering.

I have to agree with Markz that I don't see the shaming or pushing usually- there was one pretty rough thread recently but I think that happened for other reasons- and I also agree that guarding your ego doesn't really work.

The only thing I could say is that perhaps there should be a disclaimer on the forum- there's real, raw, hardcore advice. Some of it you may find offensive so be careful.

But HHM, my point earlier is that addict or not is very non-scientific and you can be and whether you need or go to 12 step meetings isn't what defines it. 

If you define it not by SA's unmanagibility but by the more secular definition of engaging in a behavior that causes you distress but you can't stop, many people have some level of addiction.

My personal opinion- maybe the whole addiction thing is just different levels of habituation. I can't stop thinking certain things, I can't stop opening the fridge, I can't hold myself back from eating chicken nuggets if they're there-really, I can't- and I was so habituated to having a piece of cake with my coffee that I would stop by my office ten minutes out of the way on the way home from shacharis to get a piece of cake. 

So so was I addicted? Or habituated? Don't know; I stopped the cake but not the chicken nuggets, but I wouldn't drive for chicken nuggets.

The vast majority on the forums hide, lie, engage secretly, and have tons of shame. Don't know about a separate forum.

And just FYI, the most impactful thing that helped me if there was one was just reading that Markz watched his eyes and stopped. I copied him, not as well but I did. Even though I was an addict who went to 12 steps. 

If only GYE had a magical sorting hat.

I still don't know if I was an addict. 
I do know that alot of addicts helped me get to where I am.  

So here should be the slogan on the forum- "We love addicts!"

If Cordnoy's name is in blue, does that mean he is no longer a moderator??!!

Workingguy wrote on 19 Feb 2017 17:20:

I guess so. I wouldn't want Cordnoy's job.

This whole discussion is a bunch of boohucky. Who gives if someone's an addict or not. I know that SA helps. Zeh freaking hu. So I work the 12 steps. Half of the psychological world would say that I'm not an addict. Good for them. Doesn't affect me. I do what works and I don't do what doesn't work. Who cares? Seriously. The idea of two websites is ludicrous. I've gained from many addicts and non-adddicts and people who say they aren't addicts and people who say they are addicts. This whole theological stuff is just stupid. 

(Btw, Mark originally posted this idea when he was a little tyke in GYE. Look how much he has grown!)

Shlomo24 wrote on 19 Feb 2017 17:34:

Shlomo, I think here is some people's problem.

All you really know is that SA helps you.

Personally I think there's a very important distinction between addicts and non-addicts. It's about honesty and facing reality. Nobody should try to force a square peg into a round hole (or a round peg in a square hole for that matter).

AND NOW SOME WORDS FROM OUR SPONSOR

the.guard wrote on 29 Jun 2009 17:47:

Watson wrote on 19 Feb 2017 17:58:

I meant that it helps for me. But if someone isn't actually working and taking time and action to recover then this conversation is a waste of time. Again, if it's not working then try something else. I don't think the label really matters if someone is honest about themselves. I go to SA because it works for me. I'm sure there are non-addicts in SA. But who cares. And I'm sure there are addicts not in SA who have their own recovery program. (WG is who I'm thinking of). 

And in terms of the sponsored message, no one told me I'm an addict. I told me I'm an addict. What got me into SA was when a friend said he stopped masturbating for 9 months. The recovery sold me, not the addiction. I know so many guys who are completely blinded by their behavior. I was also, in the past. This is my opinion and the message was The Guard's opinion. Take it or leave it. 

As i wrote on a different forum, i have no doubt that everyone is well intentioned. I reassured someone who was very offended that those who were criticizing him were doing so because they believed they were helping him. The fact that everyone who responded did so shows that they cared enough to do so and being that they feel they have a mehalech that works, they want to spare the newcomer the wasted time of trying things a different way which they feel does not work.

I am a big believer in yochid v'rabim halocho k'rabim. Obviously the writers on this forum who have been helpful to me and have intelligently commented on many many issues on other forums, feel very strongly that there only be one GYE system. You are the majority. There has been ample time allotted for anyone who wanted to speak up and say otherwise. 

May everyone have continued hatzlocha with their own journeys and with assisting others.