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I AM A NON ADDICT

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TOPIC: I AM A NON ADDICT 15836 Views

I AM A NON ADDICT 15 Feb 2017 03:50 #305908

Markz
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Warning: Spoiler!

Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Feb 2017 03:36:

Wow! The emotions coming through here are powerful. You should all be bentched! I have been in touch with Yaakov at GYE and there is a plan to divide the site into 2 sections. One for addicts and one for non addicts. However in the meantime the GYE site is here for all of us to grow from. I met Rabbi Dr A Y Twersky yesterday and thanked him very much for all he has done for me (us) and felt very comfortable telling him that I am not an addict and didn't use the 12 steps or attend SA meetings (even though that's his expertise) but that my life has been changed by GYE and he has been instrumental in building up this incredible organization. As of now I don't think anyone knows how many addicts or non addicts are on the site. None of us can claim that GYE is presently intended for any specific group. It's here for klal Yisroel. At the same time we can all encourage each other and discuss issues that affect all of us. We can also agree to understand that different people need different mehalchim - and we can agree to disagree (politely of course).

Yosef, from my own experience I relate to your need to release after a certain period of time. I used to hope I would have a wet dream so it should just come out already. And if my wife was off limits I made it come out. If she was muttar, I basically was masturbating inside of her - because it was all about that need to release. BH I have learned that the desperate need to release is a big fat lie. I am amazed I can actually type these words honestly. Yes, psychologists in the goyishe world advise masturbating as a stress reliever but BH there are other kosher stress relievers. Personally I have started exercising pretty religiously at a kosher gym - it works (remember how you felt after that swim you told us about?) As an aside if you would meet me you wouldn't assume I am an exercise guy - I look pretty rabbinical and BH do not need to lose weight.

As I wrote previously, you are a hero, and iyh as you grow, you will have the ability to help countless others - you write very clearly and to the point. Best wishes!

Click on the spoiler for interesting info

I have a reputation to say things how they are, and I don't intend ruining that

The truth will stand forever

We don't need 2 sections for addicts and non addicts, and if there would be, I'd reside on the addict section although I'm a non addict

We need 2 sections
1) Guys that want to break free on GYE terms
2) Guys that want to do so on their own terms and conditions

I can identify the few members that wish to reside on section 2, and I wish them well.

Cut it out this non addict business

If I would act out every 2 months and could not physically stop, I'd consider myself an addict

Is gye gonna have an addict test before being accepted to each forum?

I assure you not. Then who are we kidding?

Ourselves

When will we grow up?

Never

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Re: I AM A NON ADDICT 15 Feb 2017 03:58 #305910

Hashem Help Me Current streak: 2918 days NOW ONLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 4067	You are definitely entitled to your opinion but when I joined the yearly GYE board meeting they were quite emphatic that there need to be two different venues. And my assumption is that anyone trying to break free is trying to do so on GYE terms - emails, forums, shiurim, taphsic, phone conferences, sponsors, partners, etc.
	Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

Re: I AM A NON ADDICT 15 Feb 2017 04:04 #305913

Markz
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Hashem Help Me wrote on 15 Feb 2017 03:58:

You are definitely entitled to your opinion but when I joined the yearly GYE board meeting they were quite emphatic that there need to be two different venues. And my assumption is that anyone trying to break free is trying to do so on GYE terms - emails, forums, shiurim, taphsic, phone conferences, sponsors, partners, etc.

Why would they need separate websites?
Each man can find what he needs now , the way the website is beautifuly designed.

Oh - so you want a separate foru
I love all guys on the forum

Watson is a classic example (I love him too) of someone that fought valiantly to retain his dignity as a non addict

I assure you MOST guys want to subscribe to that section. But is that how they recover?

I have a more serious question I hope the GYE board takes into account

How many regular forum posters that passed 90 days are non addicts?
Out of those, how many want a separate forum?

You know how I vote if it counts for anything

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Last Edit: 15 Feb 2017 04:09 by Markz.

Re: I AM A NON ADDICT 15 Feb 2017 04:06 #305914

Workingguy
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I'm going to vote for one forum as well. I'm not just saying it- the term addict and non addict are so non scientific and many of the people who don't think they are probably are, and many who think they aren't, are.

And there's tons of value to be gained by each.

Am I an addict? I haven't masturbated in 200 days and only two or three times in the past year.

I can obsessively test my filter sometimes, or have no problem with an open computer. I quit porn cold turkey six years ago and never went back.

But I watched other stuff.

Had no problem considering myself an addict, but not so sure I am- not sure how much I really wanted to stop the parts that I wasn't stopping.

The net effect of my behaviors was pretty low level over the past few years, the ups and downs maybe not.

The non addict section wouldn't have done it for me, but I haven't done half of what some of the addicts have. So what?

And some of the addicts are the most inspiring- because they've done crazy work to bounce back and have true levels of sobriety. And some of the non addicts would maybe bounce around forever.

Re: I AM A NON ADDICT 15 Feb 2017 04:20 #305915

Hashem Help Me Current streak: 2918 days NOW ONLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 4067	Your points sound very valid. Personally I have definitely gained from the addicts, however I do see where there is a lot of confusion which appears to scare away some newcomers. I suggest you be in touch with GYE to share your concerns. Hatzlocha to all yidden with whatever mehalech they are taking.
	Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned My Story and G-d Bless GYE: guardyoureyes.com/forum/17-Balei-Battims-Forum/303036-My-story-and-G-d-bless-GYE

I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 15 Feb 2017 04:22 #305916

Markz OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 8283 Karma: 427	Addicts pls excuse the racist title Thanks WG. Anyone else?? If you are a; 1) Regular forum poster 2) Passed 90 days clean 3) And consider yourself a non addict Would you prefer to reside and post on a forum exclusively for like minded non addicts? Only yes or no will be tolerated
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Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 15 Feb 2017 06:45 #305918

bb0212
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Markz wrote on 15 Feb 2017 04:22:

Addicts pls excuse the racist title

Thanks WG. Anyone else??

If you are a;
1) Regular forum poster
2) Passed 90 days clean
3) And consider yourself a non addict

Would you prefer to reside and post on a forum exclusively for like minded non addicts?

Only yes or no will be tolerated

1) Regular forum poster
I'm new, but regular.
2) Passed 90 days clean
Not in the past 2 years, but before that (before joining gye) I was clean over 5 years.
3) And consider yourself a non addict
non addict here.

I don't want separate forums.

My road to 90 days, all with God's help.

What brought me here.

90 days with Areivim

Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 15 Feb 2017 07:09 #305921

Singularity Current streak: 72 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder To write, or not to write? Posts: 1507 Karma: 78	Racist! All just because of the colour of my (fore)skin!!!
	"Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his sobriety level?" "... It's over NINE-ZEROOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!" One day... At A Time :-D Introduce Yourself and get a free karma point from yours truley! My Thread

Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 03:46 #306107

Markz
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bb0212 wrote on 15 Feb 2017 06:45:

Markz wrote on 15 Feb 2017 04:22:

Anyone else?

Whether you passed 90 days or not, and you are not an addict.
Would you prefer to reside exclusively on a non-addict forum?

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Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 05:12 #306112

Hashem Help Me
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I was speaking with someone from GYE who has been extremely helpful to me and numerous others. He has BH passed over 1,000 days. He said Dov told him that most people (including this friend)are not addicts and they have to build up the resolve to fight their yetzer hora. He stopped posting on the forums because with the exception of Dov, he found that there were people "from the addict camp" who sarcastically, cynically, and as he says it, "in a very stuck up fashion", tried to intimidate others into submissively admitting they were addicts. Although I have seen what he is referring to, personally I don't care when people challenge my opinions in a rude or arrogant fashion. Besides which, everyone has what to offer, and we can learn from everyone even if we don't approve of their style. However, realize that many non addicts get turned off from the forums very fast and simply leave. They remain with the rest of the GYE site and BH recover using the other tools generously offered by this wonderful organization. With that in mind, GYE wants to set up forums where they will feel comfortable and not intimidated.

Feel free to contact me at michelgelner@gmail.com

My threads: Lessons Learned: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/335248-Lessons-Learned

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Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 05:25 #306114

gevura shebyesod
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1) Regular forum poster
I'm pretty regular (eating enough fiber helps)
2) Passed 90 days clean
Yes
3) And consider yourself a non addict
I think I'm somewhere borderline, I've been "clean" for a while but struggle daily with guarding eyes, fantasy etc. I've never "done" the steps but I think anyone can gain by learning about them and applying the principles even informally and alone. Self-acceptance, surrender, living ODAAT, building a connection with G-d, working on our character defects and so on.

I don't see the point of separate forums, we all have plenty to learn from each other. We can accept that we each have a different level of struggle and that there are different paths to growth. We can encourage each other and share what works for us, and give suggestions and advice in a spirit of caring.

!אנא עבדא דקודשא בריך הוא

וּבְיָדְךָ כֹּחַ וּגְבוּרָה וּבְיָדְךָ לְגַדֵּל וּלְחַזֵּק לַכֹּל

"If it would be so easy there wouldn't be a GYE, but if it would be impossible there also wouldn't be a GYE."
"Sometimes a hard decision leads to an easier outcome."
- General Grant

My story: guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/111583-hello-my-friends

Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 09:02 #306116

Watson
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Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Feb 2017 05:12:

I completely understand.

Very often we get a newcomer who insists on doing it all his way - the same thing he's been doing for years and years unsuccessfully. So what should I as a longer-term member do? To keep stroking his ego ("you're doing amazing") tacitly encourages him to continue doing what doesn't work. To point out that what he's doing doesn't work makes him defensive and accuse me of the things you describe in your post.

BTW, I think it's a very touchy subject because of the moral judgement people hear, which is not surprising given most of our educational background. I don't see it as a moral judgement at all. Someone who's sober longer isn't a better person than someone who's not sober as long, much like someone in yeshiva gedolah isn't a better person than someone in yeshiva ketanah. But the shame and implied judgement is deeply ingrained in us.

The reason I understand your post so well is because I was on the receiving end of it. I came here as a non-addict trying to force myself to be sober using the same tools I came with. I insisted that I was not an addict and my life was perfectly manageable (except from staying up all hours watching porn so my new wife wouldn't catch me). It was the 'sarcastic and cynical' addicts here that slowly made me (despite my resentment towards them) face the reality that I needed to do the unthinkable for my recovery - to get out from behind my keyboard and get real. First I joined a GYE conference call, and later SA. Now I'm calmer, happier, healthier, a better husband and father, a better employee, etc. Those 'stuck-up, arrogant' people saved my life.

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Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 12:10 #306122

mayanhamisgaber
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I do post constantly
I have not reached 90 days as of yet
I do not consider myself an addict
I do not want separate forums

I do not have more to add from what Markz and Watson and Gevurah have to sat but in my own words
I have learnt alot about myself and how to think because of the addicts especially one in particular who gets alot of flack for his bluntness and is poorly understood but in my experience with him he is a wonderful example of being honest and straight to the point and will make the time to talk to anyone privately even when he has crazy things going on in his life (he actually emailed me to try and explain something I posted and is still trying)
I am very grateful to these people and would be very upset if this was taken away from me and others to the point that I would have a hard time not making Markz look tame

very important thread: guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21" option="guardyoureyes.com/forum/20-Important-Threads/19180-FEEL-THE-HUGS%21%21%21">FEEL THE HUGS!!!

Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 12:34 #306126

Hashem Help Me
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I fully understand what Watson and Mayan have written and as i stated above i personally did not get scared away by the intimidation. I agree that everyone who contributes to the forums and takes out their time to assist others is a real "mezakeh es ho'rabim". That being said, a non addict should have a place where he feels comfortable reaching out for chizuk without being slammed. He may not be ready for the facing of reality yet. More importantly, he may not need it to the extent others do. Dov told me for example not to go to SA meetings. He didnt feel i need them. My "unmanagability thermometer" wasnt at that level. Another example is a sponsor (who religiously goes to SA meetings) i met through the site who is an addict , who after getting to know me told me "the 12 steps are good for everyone, but a non addict like you should get close to Hashem through sifrei mussar and machshovo built on chazal and not through the 12 steps". So although i personally maybe from time to time wouldnt mind getting addict advice being that as you and i wrote, there is what to be gained from eveyone ( and specifically in the case of habit breaking, the addicts have loads of experience), i fully understand why GYE would like to make a forum area for people who they determine dont need the roughing up.

Re: I am a non addict - ADDICTS MAY NOT POST HERE 19 Feb 2017 13:04 #306129

Markz
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Hashem Help Me wrote on 19 Feb 2017 05:12:

Feel comfortable falling and doing teshuvah constantly and no one giving positive input to really help me break free?

A separate website should be created
GYE
guard your ego

You say there are people that

tried to intimidate others into submissively admitting they were addicts

Please show me 1 instance of that. Email to me please markzgye@gmail.com
I have read virtually every post since I joined 1 1/2 years ago and cannot support your statement

Even if it was true what you claim, that guy that's intimidating, can easily be resolved by our admin or moderators. And not a reason for a separate website.

Moreover, do you really believe there can't be intimidators on a "non addict" website?

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