Haven’t been to shachris in awhile. Haven’t done any selichos and haven’t heard the shofar in probably a few weeks…
Also haven’t been going to mincha/maariv…

Had good therapy session yesterday Bh. It was pretty heavy and took some time to recover (Dunkin donughts helped with that).

Im glad that I’m starting to deal with these problems.
I really miss HaShem, I really do. 
I hope HaShem misses me too.

Not sure what the point of this post was.
Just saying that I’m going now to mincha. First time going to minyan with Yeshiva in awhile.

Hatzlocha

Hashem doesn't miss you, because he is with you every step of the way.
IY"H one day you will be back to an intense tefillah and learning with a cheishek.

lionking wrote on 01 Sep 2021 21:26:

I did not rush to mention this but seeing as you brought up the idea of “intense”

The intense might actually be part of the problem. In many yeshivot there’s a very heavy seriousness, Almost to the point that you can sometimes miss the entire point of prayer…

YG how about you just going to pray with an approach of chilling out and doing some light prayers…. Would that help?

Markz wrote on 02 Sep 2021 00:08:

Ya it’s intense especially with the Rosh Yeshiva talking about how you can’t “feel Elul” around here cuz we’re not taking it seriously enough…
Its intense and I’m scared of that right now.
Usually I like it but now I’m in more of a fragil state.
Not sure how I could do “light prayers” and where that would be

YeshivaGuy wrote on 02 Sep 2021 00:11:

I totally agree with Markz, do you ever feel intense when you speak to your father? And do you enjoy anything intense? And how can you tell someone to feel something If he doesent feel it? Maybe you can explain me. 

Sapy wrote on 02 Sep 2021 00:49:

I will defend the mahalach currently under attack.
The derech of intensity during Elul, I beleive is a valid mahalach. Just because it isn’t working right now for me and just because it doesn’t resonate with others, doesn’t mean it’s not a valid derech.
Hashem is indeed our father, but he’s also the Melech Malchei Hamlachim! The shaila is which part will you focus more on…

Regarding whether someone can enjoy that which is intense. The response would be that Elul is not a time of enjoyment.

Regarding what my Rosh HaYeshiva was saying.
I beleive there is some sort of maala in noting that there are levels beyond that which we currently are holding by.
I think that’s part of the job of a Rosh Yeshiva, to be a figure beyond our reach and comprehension, davka not relatable. I find it healthy to be exposed to something like that.

Im not saying what my own personal mahalach is. 
I also understand that with these inyanim, the way in which it’s conveyed is key.

Just felt it necessary to make the point of saying that I’m not criticizing any particular derech, just saying what I can do right now.

Sorry if you felt a mehalech was under attack, you read the post with the wrong nigun.... I was just wondering and asked if you can explain the mehalech to me.

just read thru almost this entire thread. all I want to say is a massive thank you, for all the inspiration and chizuck I got from reading it

Sapy wrote on 02 Sep 2021 03:21:

I hear that, that’s the prob with writing, it’s hard to chap the right niggun.
All good buddy

farmer k. wrote on 02 Sep 2021 03:21:

How long did it take?  

Hey YG, I feel for you, I don't have much to say. 

Before selichos started, I was working on davening with a minyan. I was extremely nervous about selichos because I always get really stressed and don't enjoy it. I didn't want to ruin my davening but I didn't want to be a bad guy either. 

I spoke to a friend a Rebbi and my therapist about it and here is what happened. Until now, I had been davening with a minyan 2-3-4 times a week. I told myself that in the place of selichos, I will at least try to daven every day with a minyan and come on time. If I do this, I may be ready to daven selichos after a few days and maybe not so when I decide that that is something that I want to do, I can add it to my day. My therapist told me that if I go against my will and just "stick it out" I will fall apart (this is just me) so if I wanted to go I have to figure out how to value it enough that I am willing and want to go. 

To make a long story short, I davened everyday with a minyan so far but no selichos (yet) and I still feel very good about myself. Would I like to daven selichos? Yes, but I have to be ready. 

What I do do sometimes is daven selichos after shachris in the shtiblach (I live in Yerushalayim) I don't know if that's an option where you are.

Oh, and yes, if you are not enjoying Elul you are doing something wrong. Growing closer to Hashem should feel good, don't let anyone tell you otherwise (unless they are from a different religion). And if you are doing something else other than growing closer to Hashem I am not sure why it has anything to do with Elul.

Intense can be enjoyable if you value what you are working towards. It can be hell otherwise.

As far as feeling something that you don't feel? There is a way and it's not that complicated. It starts by setting aside some time, then finding a place where you can think without being disturbed. Then ask yourself how much do you allow Hashem into your life. Don't answer it, just think about it. Pick something that you did that day, anything and ask yourself what percentage of that was for Hashem and what was for yourself/others. There are many more questions to ask but this is a start. 

You can also sit down and try to make you case that you plan on bringing before Hashem. Take out a pen and paper, or just think it over, what are you planning on saying, do you have a winning argument? 

(@YG, I don't mean that you should do these things, I am responding to the general questions.)

I have deep respect for those that attempt to grow during Elul - with whatever mehalech works for them - as long as they are trying. Being that my main trigger in years past was anxiety, perfectionism, depression, etc., the typical yeshiva Elul mehalech was super triggering for me. I was extremely jealous of how other apparently normal easy going guys shifted into this intense serious mode, yet remained basically calm and normal. Me? I was masturbating overtime! The yeshiva i attended had very intense Yomim Noraim davening (although they did sing quite a bit), which caused me to tense up - and all that tension went straight to that part of my body. Looking back, i realize i was simply not a healthy guy, despite my outward appearance of being a great student and a goody goody. What does all this mean? What would i advise a guy during Elul? I am not really sure - except - if you know you have a predisposition for anxiety/depression, WATCH OUT! Don't let your "getting closer with Hashem" be a trigger. Find a wise rebbi to plan your Elul/Yomim Noraim with. If you are a mentally sound guy, thank Hashem for that! and i guess go with the flow of your yeshiva......

One side point. My depression was very much based on the kedusha issue. If anyone reading this is presently in that matzav, DO NOT use Elul to focus on doing teshuva for this issue. Do teshuva on the "regular stuff". Do not beat yourself up about this parsha. If this concept is confusing for you, feel free to PM or email me.

Shkoyach Gadol to all who’ve responded thus far. I appreciate every word.

This morning I woke up and could’ve gone to selichos, but was too scared because of the intensity. Personnaly, I think I’m scared of intensity because b’chlall I’m in a fragile state now emotionally.
Instead though of not going to anything, I summoned up the courage to go for shachris.
It still was abit hard because the guy who sits next to me is one of these guys who enunciates every word intensely (like “ba-ruch, ah-tah…) which bugs me out…

Anyway, thanks again everyone for all the eitza and hadrocha.

Have a wonderful day,

YeshivaGuy

wilnevergiveup wrote on 02 Sep 2021 07:16:

This is a great post, although alot of the stuff here just wont work for me, (to much thinking, thinking, thinking, about me, myself and I. and I unfortunately cannot afford that luxury, nor do I get anywhere)
but maybe can you explain me what does having a winning argument for hashem mean? I never heard that gedank, and it sounds interesting to me, if you dont mind explaining I would appreciate.

I dont know if there is much to add at this point...
Just want to say that i used to hate  Selichos and Yomim Noraim Davening because of the aforementioned issues.
Just want to say that over the years (Including therapy and hard work and change in outlook etc.) I developed an enjoyment in davening and Selichos.
I can cry during Selichos or on Rosh Hashana and actually enjoy it and feel good about it. Sounds like a contradiction? its not. If you are able to connect properly with Hashem who is your father, you should be able to get emotional with him and THAT should make you feel good.
Not everyone is holding there and believe me I know exactly what it feels like to hate davening I'm just saying that you can enjoy elul so to speak, as long as it isn't a burden, and If it feels like a stress then yes stay far away