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TOPIC: Hello after many years 552 Views

Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 11:12 #337085

Hello to this wonderful community that I've known about since it was founded. I must have joined over 10 years ago (when I was 18 or 19) and I remember going all out in my introductory post. I remember saying "I'm going to grab the problem by the horns" and someone replying "you have to do the opposite and let go of the horns if you want to be successful". I guess you could say that's what I did. I stopped being obsessed with the issue, so I left the community and worked on my issues with the resources of various friends and Rabbonim. 

I didn't start the true road to recovery until about 4 years ago where I shared my struggles with my wife. For a awhile she became my accountability partner and I started going months without acting out with  some relapses of a few weeks at a time. At a certain point though, it was too emotionally difficult for her to be involved in my struggle, so I've been on my own for about two years.

Every day I find myself getting stronger. What has helped me tremendously was understanding the dark undersides of porn and how it is just another form of prostitution and sexual slavery. Until I understood that, I always believed that pornography was about giving women their desires (obviously as many women as possible), but the truth is that it's just a legally sanctioned form of abuse that has been going on since the beginning of history (much like abortion in it's own way). I still view women as the most beautiful creation G-d has made - and my love for their beauty is deep and not something I'm ashamed about - BUT there are ways to appreciate this beauty without acting out. It largely has moved to focusing on my own wife's beauty and having an appreciation for beauty in general. 

So why do I join now? I'm joining now because although I can go a few months at a time being clean 1) I really want to be permanently clean 2) I work in cloud technology, and I'm at the point where I can bypass any filter and view pornography whenever I want. I need to move to the next level of having pornography completely available, but not using it anyway. My technology skills have progressed to this point recently, so I am only now facing the ultimate test.

I call it the ultimate test because imagine for a moment that someone brings a box in your house and leaves it in your office. They tell you that it has hundreds of pornographic magazines and videos. How easy would it be to resist looking in that box? For me, at my stage in my career I can't put a lock on that box and I can't keep it out of the house - so I need to find a way to live with it without even having the desire to open in up. Eventually I'll forget about it and it will just be another piece of furniture. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 12:27 #337086

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Welcome. It should be with hatzlocha. Curious, you commented that you cant leave it out of your house. Do you work at home? If not, do you really really have to have such open access at home? Doesn't the inconveniece of not having everything at your fingertips, pay off with keeping the home kodesh kodoshim? What will be when your children will be of age where this nisayon will be relative to them?   And if you do work at home and there is no choice, what precautions can be set up?

In concept ,your wish to have this "bor birshus harabim" in your home and be able to ignore it is noble. However, which rabbinic authority would permit that? Would we purposely keep a cabinet of tarfus in our home and tell everyone "We dont open that cabinet"? Of course not. And lets be honest, the drive to eat a cheeseburger pales in comparison to the adrenalin rushing urges to view pornography. 

Please excuse my blunt questions and comments, but the assunption is that when one posts here they wish to receive polite yet direct input from the oilam. If i am mistaken please accept my apology for being so direct.
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Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 13:19 #337087

Sure - I don't mind your questions. Maybe I wasn't clear on my reference, but the box I'm talking about is the internet. Everyone has it, and it is not going away. In my opinion, the internet is a "bor birishus harabim", even if it has filters. My point is that I have the skills to bypass any block, accountability software or filter - I've had covenant eyes for years and it did the job, but I'm at the point where I can get past it. For example - give me anyone's smart phone with all the filters (yours included if you have one), and I can get access to explicit material without it being tracked in under 10 seconds. What has worked for other people without any technology background is not going to work for me. I need the ability to withhold from the open cabinet at this point - that's just what my reality is. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 13:50 #337088

And one more thing, since when you said "which rabbinic authority would permit that?" it really bothered me. EVERY Rav I know who has internet (almost without exception) has more permissive access on their phones and computers than the restrictions I've setup for myself. So I'm not sure which Rabbinic authority you are referring to. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 16:35 #337089

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Welcome back.
I think HHM's point was that if you can bypass the filters than you essentially have totally unfiltered internet, which is definitely a big BOR however you're rabbi without the tech background has a covered BOR. so getting back to the original question, if you agree it;s a BOR yet "everyone has it and its not going away" may be a good answer for somene who can live with a strong filter and although not 100% good can d about 80-95% depending on how strong its set up and how desperate he is. But that may not qualify as a reason to have internet if it will provide a) 0% coverage for you and b) you have fallen many times over the years... So unfortanutely for your situation i think at least besides for while you actually working with it ..office..you should try to be from the part of klal yisrael which aren't part of "everyone has it".
In other words if you are saying i want to have it and eill not fall that evokes the famous words of the רשב''ם ב''ב '' שמי שהולך על שפת הנהר אצל הנשים רשע מיקרי- אע''פ שלא התסכל. please dont get me wrong as i very much face the situations you do and i thank hashen all the time i am not so tech savvy... and even without that over the years i have managed to figure out too many things...when the yetzer hara is burning many things can be figured out.
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Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 16:44 #337090

Welcome Back! I can very much relate to your situation. I also joined about 10 years ago, eventually told my wife, (actually she find out herself), so I can relate. Please feel free to reach out to me because I think I can relate to your situation. I would be glad to keep in touch and help in any way. Or just keep posting and I will try to comment

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 17:20 #337093

Thanks דרך ישר - I understand that point, but getting rid of the internet is not feasible on so many levels, and my point is that it's near impossible for most working people. So instead of filtering it, blocking it and so on, I prefer to move onto the next level which is having self control. Whether I have it in my house or not, it is actually always available for someone who wants it (try at the convenience store) so I am ready to take a different path where it won't control me in any situation. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 17:23 #337094

Thanks - I would love to chat. I see that there is a way to do direct chats here. Would be happy to get one one. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 18:54 #337095

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Welcome brother

I share some similarities. Check my story. I also live in the clouds

Keep on posting, you're on a good path!
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Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 22:21 #337097

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stronger_today wrote on 08 Nov 2018 17:20:
Thanks דרך ישר - I understand that point, but getting rid of the internet is not feasible on so many levels, and my point is that it's near impossible for most working people. So instead of filtering it, blocking it and so on, I prefer to move onto the next level which is having self control. Whether I have it in my house or not, it is actually always available for someone who wants it (try at the convenience store) so I am ready to take a different path where it won't control me in any situation. 

Hi.

Your statements about pornography are well said, thank you.

Question for you: you said you can go for months without acting out, and yet you filters are no good for you. So why do you act out every few months then?

I used the poof method (of my own design) if you want to check it out (see below,) but I'm the odd man out here.

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 22:34 #337098

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Just for the record, I don't understand the connection between pornography and abuse.

"Legal form of prostitution" I understand, although I'm not quite certain why prostitution (in pre-ordained places) is not legal in the first place. Even abortion is legal in many places!?
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Last Edit: 08 Nov 2018 22:35 by cordnoy.

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 22:54 #337099

Thank you. 

Every few months my stress gets to such a point (just from regular life) that I need a release. I recognize that acting out is a stress reliever for me, so I try to focus on ways to reduce my stress which precludes the reason for acting out in the first place. 

I tried to understand the poof method, but I'm not getting past the procedure part. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 23:04 #337100

If you haven't watched this, it is a must - he explains it better than I ever could:  and he works with abused and trafficked women. 

Basically porn is an outlet for controlling women. Men who watch porn don't actually care about the pleasure the woman in the video are getting. If you notice porn habits always go deeper and deeper into violent porn watching. It is a mindset that fosters abuse which is also about dominating women who may be weaker in some ways. 

Sure - prostitution is legal in some places like the red light district. It goes on in every time and place and so the Dutch just legalized what was already happening. In their case it actually gave more rights to the prostitutes who now have laws protecting them. That being said sexual slavery is the highest form of prostitution which in turn itself is the ultimate pornography (if you catch my train of thought). 

Abortion is legal in many places because throughout history people have killed babies (live ones) when they were inconvenient. It is called infanticide. Abortion is just a "legal" or "nice" way of killing children which is something lots of people never actually minded if it were culturally acceptable. So I would porn with prostitution, abortion and drugs in the scheme of things that society does anyway but really aren't morally acceptable. 

I put this all out there, because understanding the nature of porn did more for me than all of the mussar (or ethics) discussions I've ever heard. 

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 23:11 #337101

:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
Doesn't seem like links come out: search this - Why I stopped watching porn | Ran Gavrieli | TEDxJaffa

Re: Hello after many years 08 Nov 2018 23:15 #337102

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stronger_today wrote on 08 Nov 2018 22:54:
Thank you. 

Every few months my stress gets to such a point (just from regular life) that I need a release. I recognize that acting out is a stress reliever for me, so I try to focus on ways to reduce my stress which precludes the reason for acting out in the first place. 

I tried to understand the poof method, but I'm not getting past the procedure part. 

What's a typical example of stress that pushes you to the breaking point?

And what sort of feelings do you get? Sad, anxious, depressed, hopeless, overwhelmed, fearful, angry...?
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