gibbor120 wrote on 04 Jan 2017 21:28:

Whew! a bunch of responses! I like Gibbor's best.
[I'll try to answer everyone but I don't like long debates]

But in short- balance is tough. So how do we know what's yetzer hara and what's not? Good question!
For all I know it's the yetzer hara that brought me back onto GYE now! [answer for YTH!]

That's why we discuss things with others whom we trust and respect and don't rely on ourselves.
[by the way, don't rely on me. For all you know, I'm some homeless guy who sells pornography for a living. If you get to know me, that's another story. But the rule is, never trust some random guy on the internet. Certainly not with important life decisions, such as Kollel, Job etc. All I'm doing here is sharing some of "my" experience, and like cordnoy said, "whatever works for you".]

There's a bachur in yeshiva who I'm trying to help, he confided in me that he struggles with masturbation, I gave him the GYE Handbook. A few days later he tells me "I don't have time to read that book, it's bittul torah"!
So we have to understand that sometimes "bittulo zehu kiyumo"

Now, somebody got confused, am I advocating SA? Am I advocating Torah and Mussar?
I don't know. I'm sharing what worked for me. For years I learned Torah and didn't get anywhere Then I went through the 12 Steps, and I'm finding that Torah is working for me. So I guess I'm advocating both.

I'm NOT saying "do this, do that" I'm just going to be sharing positive parts of my journey, what worked for me!

I like the story with the bachur. Sounds like me, back in the day. Very amusing. 

What about answering Cordnoy's questions?

Step one. We admitted that we were powerless over lust and that our lives were unmanageable.
Lots of people work this step by writing down a long detailed history of their acting out, then they go it over with their sponsor who points out to them- Do you see how powerless you were? Do you see how this made your life unmanageable?
The way I like doing it with my sponsees is the way a certain goy from Tenessee taught me:
Don't spend four months on it, don't write a story, and certainly don't write "pornographic details"...
What he recommended instead was: Look over your history and think over cases when you felt powerless. List them. Note cases where you felt life was getting unmanageable, list them.
Example:

Powerless.
Using the library computer to look for explicit images, although anybody could see exactly what I'm doing.
Being unable to keep promises not to act out.
Staying up late at night for just ten minutes, and then just ten minutes and then just ten minutes...

Unmanageable.
Coming late to work because of acting out.
Having to lie to my family constantly.
Missing important appointments.

The list goes on and on... Now, almost every sponsee I did this with asked "How do I know what's "powerless" and what's "unmanageable"?" And the answer is, it doesn't really matter, I'm not your teacher and I'm not grading this. The main thing is to do the work.

Once you have a list of like fifteen items [instead of working for four months on a full biography] it should be enough for the purpose of this step "We admitted".

Why is this step necessary? 
The Rambam's first step of Teshuva is "vidui", admission.
Vidui is not a list of alphabetized words that we rattle off from our siddur. Vidui is humbly "admitting" to Hashem "I did x, y, z."
Only when the past stares us in the face. When we see the facts clearly and objectively, without bias or denial, do we have any real impetus to change.

Love your posts

Please keep them coming!!

AvigdorBenYisroel wrote on 05 Jan 2017 02:44:

Like it was pointed out before, there is a bit of a mix/confusion perhaps here. 
The first step of either admittin' that we are powerless or especially thatI our life is unmanageable, that itself is the impetus to change. It is not the teshuvah or the viduy that is encouragin' or proddin' us to change.
I am not sayin' that one cannotI change thru viduy; he probably canI, but that, I do not believe, is step one.

Disclaimer: I have been in serious recovery for close to four years. I still have not done teshuvah. I am not proud of this, but I do not allow the thought to fester.

Cords...
If your illness did not cause aveiros would you make teshuva for it?
Make Teshuva for the blessing that got you to today.
But not for an illness you were blessed with. Other than to get close to your tikkun.
imo

GrowStrong wrote on 05 Jan 2017 05:29:

I don't understand this post at all.

And while I appreciate the post about Step 1, I'm still bugged that Cordnoy's questions weren't answered. Mr. Avigdor, can you please answer them?

Shlomo24 wrote on 05 Jan 2017 07:36:

I was trying to say that the sickness/illness is not what we need to make teshuva for/about.

GrowStrong wrote on 05 Jan 2017 08:08:

II still don't understand.

Sorry.

cordnoy wrote on 05 Jan 2017 04:43:

OK ill go back a step..
The 12 steps are riddled with "Teshuva" yet you say you are in serious recovery and yet have not yet done Teshuva.
My interpretation of that works a few different ways, but what did you mean by it?

Wonderful stuff, brother!

Keep us trucking!

GrowStrong wrote on 05 Jan 2017 08:45:

Thank you.

II have worked the steps many times.
I did not see teshuvah there once.

I didn't get answers to my 4 questions either...
other than: "maybe it's yetzer hara" and "I don't know".
I just pointed out contradictions in your first couple of posts to the forum, 
to try to understand you better. Your posts don't make sense to me:
leaving Torah because of what a sponsor said to you (maybe even a goy from Tennesee),
saying your Rebbe is Rav Avigdor Miller, who insisted one have a relationship with a living Rebbe,
saying that we need to make recovery the main thing, after saying that you left SA, to focus on spirituality,
joining the forum and gye now, when you seem to be both a sponsor and have a job offer as a Rov.

Please take a moment and try to answer these questions, so that we can all understand you better.
I just want to make sense of what you're saying...if possible. I won't enter into a long discussion or debate.
Thanks,
Yosef
p.s. I sure hope you don't sell porn or other drugs on the street corner.