jake08 wrote on 29 Jan 2016 19:25:


b'hatzlachah

good move!

Thanks will definitely consider.

Watson wrote on 28 Jan 2016 18:29:

Is there a frum group in NJ? The website link looked like the SA general website. Thanks I really appreciate it. (Though not sure if Im gonna start with SA or a phone conference.)

Hi, Jake.

Although I should not enter your private territory but maybe you should know one thing, a thought that helped me many times : The period of being crazy and depressed, one time , tomorrow or after a week, eventhough it may take a long suffering time but one time, it will dissapear ( the mood of crazyness, though the problems will stay with you) for a time and at this time I'll be able to think and manage to grab tools for continuing the battle .
This helped me very much when I was hopeless.

Your fall reminds me of my own. I forced myself for a long time and fell deeper than ever.
It is not because you are problematic, just because it did not happen in an healthy way.

Today I am trying to find for myself not a stormbreaking looking nice tool that's requiring to force myself to do more than I can do, but a tool that will give me the oppertunity to grow slowly and stable in an healthy way for my personality.


A human can't control everything (his mood or hatzlocho), there will be always a barrier where the human is helpless and then he will have to activate the power of believe.
The Kotzke rebbe zts''l said once : '' where mind stops, there the emuna will be ''
Ch''v, when a person feels that he may not feel helpless ( I do not mean hopeless), that shows that he lacks of emunah because he is thinking that he does not need Hashem.


When I feel helpless (too many times) I am feeling that hashem embraces me and tells me : '' It is okay my son, feel helpless because now I know that you're believing in me ''.


Hoping for your healthy recovery,
The Desire.

And Jake I forgot to add that do not forget to be in contact with a person who can help you and with whom you feel comfortable with.

The Desire

jake08 wrote on 31 Jan 2016 02:29:


There are frum groups in Lakewood and in other places as well I believe. I actually have heard that some people like the regular groups better. We are starting new cycle on the phone this Monday.

Hi,
I am going to start posting iyh to get some of the great advice and chizuk from the guys on the forum.
So for today,
The good:
went to yeshiva first seder even though I was feeling very rotten and skipping a seder under those circumstances is old school by me,
Worked on getting a chavrusah second seder and stopped making believe I was doing fine without one (I most assuredly was not)
And the not so good:
Started the day super resentful at my wife and not working on it at all (even wanting to do the work is a work in itself)
gave my kids a rough morning because of my bad mood, they suffered (I really hate that part)
and had a bad dream (not the monster kind) last night because of many feelings during the day

Hopefully the plan for tomorrow with the help of g-d:
really work on fourth step inventory,
sometime soon share it with Cordnoy (yes I know you're really ok with me calling you, gotta work up the courage) and get his insights 
try hard to show a minimum of consideration to my wife who is sick and in first trimester and has very tough day (and maybe try to stop actively lusting for her and leaving her be, damn it!)
focus on my kids while Im home with them even if I have things to do.
May it be his will...
Looking forward to call resumption next week!
 

And stop saying "damn it." It's unbecoming of you.

Jake08,

I totally understand the feeling of hypocrisy.  Here we hold ourselves out both to the Frum and Frei world as paragons of virtue and Hashems' ratzon, and yet we know that in many cases the average gentile or reform Jew is living a more moral life than we are due to our addictions.  I have a religious gentile friend at work who would be shocked and appalled if he had any idea what I engage in, and I know that he himself does nothing of the sort. 

So you are right, it is the hypocrisy.

In my case, I  can only cry and beat my chest in remorse for so long, I need to take actual steps beyond this forum.

B"H I am working on that level. 

With that said, if you look at my experiences through my past posts, you will see that it can be a lot worse than what you are going through.  

I have entered the realm of actually putting myself in danger due to my addictions to alcohol and women.

May Hashem have mercy on me. 

With that said, I will make a trip to some beloved relative's gravesites and ask them to intercede for me favorably in the heavenly court.    This is not in lieu of contacting the right people for a face to face dealing with this issue. 

jake08 wrote on 02 Jun 2016 03:52:

That's a great share. I can relate to you on many levels as I was and am currently in a similar situation. For one, my wife is also in her first trimester. Iv'e been feeling upset (although I try to hide it, but it does reflect on our overall relationship) at my wife for what I perceived as her letting the house fall apart and for using certain tones when speaking to me which I felt were demeaning. This has let to us drifting apart somewhat in the last few weeks which I believe contributed majorly to my recent fall. 
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that we need to show our wives "a minimum of consideration". I need to try to imagine what she must feel like and ask myself what I would do if I was in a perpetual state of nausea and utter exhaustion. This in turn should help me not only not be upset but actually focus on being more affectionate and reassuring than usual, as I'm sure the house falling apart has not been missed by her either.
This mindset is not entirely "lishma" as I know I am much happier when I feel close and connected to my wife, and it's huge factor in keeping lust at bay.

I can also relate to the rotten feelings the "bad dreams" (I'm assuming you mean "wet dreams") can create. While technically it may not be a fall, it doesn't seem to fit in with the mode of being "clean" especially not when they are clearly a result of our lusting and fantasies. I don't have much of an eitzah, but I do know that by allowing myself to feel rotten about it, in a certain sense it gave me the justification to officially "fall" as I felt I wasn't clean anyway. This is a dangerous path to follow!

Hatzlacha to you and may the pregnancy go smoothly for all involved! 
 

cordnoy wrote on 02 Jun 2016 05:25:

right you are ( I grew up in a house where it was used alot but I should definitely know better. Thanks for pointing it out)
I've found in the past few days that the best thing for me is to prepare myself mentally beforehand when facing possibly negative situations. This sounds obvious but I still missed it entirely. Like this morning I was insanely tired in the morning. I was already annoyed at my kids before I even came home from davening! I really wanted to just be crabby and let the day flow as it may. So instead I imagined the morning happy and went through the door with a loud good morning. Day started well. When I was sitting down to work on something for a few minutes my kid asked me to come look at toy creations. I started to mumble later, when I remembered my resolution of the last post. So instead we had a great time together. A far cry from the morning I envisioned when I woke up. Yesterday mentally preparing for the morning allowed me to dress, feed, and get lunches together for all my kids (while my wife went back to bed) without a single screaming incident (well one...). B'H
However BB fully relate to what you said. Last night I was resentful at my wife who has been sick for a week and expecting and a hard day to boot. And yet I still expected her to be glowing for me  and awake and attentive (...). Davened hard in bed to be a healthier man who appreciates his wife's devotion to him and to release me of my skewed perception of me, her, and my demands of her. (It worked though, instead of rolling over and grunting I wished a good night sincerely).
Yesterday felt pretty empty in general though. Not sure why. Maybe cause I wasted part of the noon while making believe it was all in the name of step four.
 

Nice!!!

And thanks for the Bracha bb. V'chein L'maar Beshoa Tova!

Something I realized funny about myself (well not so funny).
I have times when my wife could be  negative, complaining, not coping blah blah,  and I can deal very well with it. I can listen, be supportive, and help her happily. And there are times I get mad and upset within the first thirty seconds. Well I think I got it. I am ok as long as she is complaining on my terms! If she is clear (even subtlety)  about her being the prob and listens to how I go about dealing with it then ok. If not, well then... So for example the day she wasnt doing great and I offered her to go to rest while I run things (read: be in charge of the situation and do as I say cause thats how I want/think it should be) and she kept trying to help out while still not doing great, it went south. 
So in essence I punished her for trying to help me cause thats not the way I envisioned it. I cant accept the situation and deal with it well unless its at least partly my making. 

On other matters heard a very nice vort from someone his Rov said which I think says alot for 12 steps.
He said based on Maharsha that Pirkei Avos is avoda bein adom l'atzmo. The Rov said that means its not about your ruchniyos but rather a manner of living a health human life. Avos al shem the gemara that says Aviv Mevieo L'chayei Haolam Hazeh.
And he related a story about R' Yisrael Salanter who was asked why he started the mussar movement. His response was because of a story he witnessed of two tailors who had very humble lives. One decided to invest and not long after grew into a wealthy powerful man. The first tailor couldnt stand the sight of his former partners position. So when the gvir made his first grand wedding the poor one ran up to the chuppa and pulling off his shoe called out remind me how do you repair this. The rich man fainted and died several days later of heartbreak and embarrassment. R' Yisrael said the poor guys rishus is uncommon and therefor not worthy of his response but that the rich man allowed someone else to affect him like that told him he needed to start a movement of self growth.
step 4,5,6 ?