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The Women object!! (Siri-ously)
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TOPIC: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 15842 Views

Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 21 Dec 2015 19:06 #271963

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the.guard wrote:
Dear Chasid...
Viewing porn turns all women into objects of lust. This is the very opposite of what relations in a Jewish marriage are meant to be. The "lust" aspect of sexual desire was created by G-d to cause a man to seek out a woman and take her for himself. Once a couple is married, the "lust" aspect of sex should be relegated to the side and should no longer be a dominant aspect of the relationship between the two. They have dedicated themselves to each other, and when they are together, they should be cultivating an emotional bond through the sharing and sensuality of intercourse. Sex is a "sacred moment" of closeness between the two of them. This is also perhaps why Chaza"l prohibited having relations by day. Firstly, because one may see something about his wife's body that may turn him off, and on the other side of the coin, by seeing his wife's body he is fueling his lust instead of focusing on the true sacredness of the moment.

A man who insists to make "lust" the most dominant aspect of his relations, is losing out on the true connection and closeness that martial relations should cultivate, and ultimately his marriage is likely to fall apart. As his wife has children and her body changes, and/or as she gets older, he will loose interest in her and he will never be able to lead a normal marriage life. A relationship built on "lust" quickly fades away. Also, by fueling the lust through his relations and not focusing on building the emotional bond with his wife, he will continue to be pulled after the other women he sees on the street, and will transgress all the time the Issur D'eoraysah of "Lo Sachmod". Lust is truly a poison, and the nature of lust is that "the more you feed it, the more you need it". One can never get enough of lust. In the end, either we win it over or it wins us over.

Just one last thought. Even with a strong resolve, one should never trust themselves in these areas and should get a strong Internet filter for their computer to help them through moments of weakness. And never stop davening to Hashem to save you and your offspring from what is perhaps this generation's biggest test!
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 21 Dec 2015 20:09 #271974

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skeptical wrote:
We need to realize that most of us guys who have been influenced by porn have an unrealistic view of how our relationships with our wives should be.

From porn we learn that the sole purpose of women is to make us feel good. From porn we learn that if we touch a woman and they don't melt, writhe and moan, either we are doing something wrong or in most likelihood, they are. From porn we learn that everything should work smoothly and effortlessly changing from one position to the next, otherwise something is wrong. From porn we learn that women should have flawless skin and body parts, and we should never be satisfied with what we have; we should always look at the women we don't have and desire them.

Well, as someone who has had to do some advertising, I want to share something with you.

When I take a picture of a product that I want to advertise and send it off to a graphic designer, the first thing they do is "perfect" the photo. That means that they'll take away blemishes, add color and lighting, etc. - in short, they're making the product look more appealing than it really naturally is. When you're driving down the street and you see a billboard advertising a mouth watering donut and a tall cup of ice coffee, sweating with little beads of cold condensation for $1.50, be prepared that the proportions and presentation at the counter most likely will not be the same as shown on the billboard.

In the porn industry, it is their job to make everything appear MORE - more stimulating, more pleasurable, more than anything you can ever really get. They want you to thirst for their product, to constantly be reaching out for more and more for that just-out-of-reach fantasy they plant in your head. So they play with the lighting, they add music, they direct the actors/actresses to exaggerate their expressions of ecstasy, and to moan incessantly. It's not real.

The problem is with us - Not with our wives!

We need to stop trying to manipulate our wives. We need to stop trying to get them to be something they're not. It's not what they signed up for. We need to work on ourselves to enjoy the gifts Hashem has given us as they are. And we need to deprogram ourselves from the sick way porn has brainwashed us.

Hatzlacha!
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 21 Dec 2015 21:56 #271985

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Thanks for the last two posts, they are well written.
I would like to add that In porn the women looks nice and sexy and she is even playing like she is enjoying.
But that's the BLUF , the porn industry is misusing them and they don't even have pleasure!!!
They even suffer.

They do it for the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 NO, It's not all or nothing, just every bit counts!

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Last Edit: 21 Dec 2015 21:57 by doingtshuva.

Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 21 Dec 2015 22:54 #271991

Wow this post really helps me!! it sounds amazing.. so how do i start the de-programing?? i need to start right away. i have unreachable expectations of my wife in my own head!!

Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 22 Dec 2015 01:18 #272000

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formyself#1 wrote:
Wow this post really helps me!! it sounds amazing.. so how do i start the de-programing?? i need to start right away. i have unreachable expectations of my wife in my own head!!


why don't you start your own thread and tell us a bit about yourself? maybe we could figure out what can be helpful for you.
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 22 Dec 2015 01:41 #272003

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Shlomo24 wrote:
formyself#1 wrote:
Wow this post really helps me!! it sounds amazing.. so how do i start the de-programing?? i need to start right away. i have unreachable expectations of my wife in my own head!!




why don't you start your own thread and tell us a bit about yourself? maybe we could figure out what can be helpful for you.

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Last Edit: 22 Dec 2015 01:42 by cordnoy.

Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 22 Dec 2015 21:14 #272093

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thnx. i saw it afterwards
What works for me: 1) Honesty 2) Meetings 3) 12-step 4) Listening to my Sponsor 5) Not doing what I want to do 6) Inviting the God of my understanding into my life

"I can't do it, God can help." | "Everything I want is on the other side of fear." | "Where there is deprivation there is addiction." | "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery." | "Stop stopping, start living."

My thread: Big Steps

Email: iam24zman@gmail.com
Last Edit: 22 Dec 2015 21:14 by Shlomo24.

Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 29 Dec 2015 20:42 #272729

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gibbor120 wrote:
Objectifying Myself ???:
dov wrote on 07 Nov 2011 18:08:

Which reminds me that when I think of a women as an object, I am really thinking of myself as less of a person and more of an object: A sexual pleasure-being rather than a real human-being.
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 04 Jan 2016 03:59 #273255

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tehillimzugger wrote:
kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:

I know what you're talking about. I'm finding though that it's becoming easier to treat them as people and not lust after them.


SHE's not a GIRL she's a person
SHE's not a GIRL she's a person
SHE's not a GIRL she's a person

it's not working, any tips?  ???

kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:

stop imagining that there's something there, you'll be fine.


but there IS something there  :-[

kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:

Say hello when you need to, be polite, done. Don't bump into trees because you don't want to look at the shaina meidel.


i'm not bumping into trees- don't worry about me  ;D


[besides for once when i was on a major "up" and in the corner of my eye i saw a girl approaching so i veered off course a bit to avoid her, but then she imitated me, putting us on a straight collision course
with my eyes almost stuck to the sidewalk i attempted to move even further- but there she was again almost bumping into me. and then....
she spoke- she spoke to me and told me "good shabbos" which is when i realized that it was my sister ;D we had a good laugh on that one, but i was a bit embarrassed at having treated her as a pink elephant]
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 10 Jan 2016 00:00 #273749

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Extreme objectification
R' Yitzchok Fingerer wrote:

When the Nazis vanquished Poland one of the first things they did was flood the bookstores with pornography
Why?
What is the connection between promiscuity and becoming less of a human being?


Why should acts done in the bedroom affect the level of violence and theft in a society?

It is precisely the sins of a sexual nature that lead to a corrupt and pernicious society. When people indulge their sexual nature without boundaries they are letting their bodies take control. They become concerned only with their own pleasure and not with how their actions may affect others. The satisfaction of their own drives being their ultimate goal, they will attempt to acquire whatever they desire no matter what it takes. They will rob cheat murder rape oblivious to the harm inflicted on others. The victimless crime invariably leads to a society rife with victims
The Nazis understood the above principal all too well. This is why they flooded the bookstores of Poland with pornography immediately after their conquest.
They knew that if they could encourage people to focus on their personal sexual needs, they would be willing to cooperate with whatever immoral edicts the nazis promulgated.
The human reluctance to hurt other people is lessened by sexual promiscuity

~Search Judaism~
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Re: The Women object!! (Siri-ously) 18 Jan 2016 16:22 #274720

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Steve wrote:
Kollel Guy wrote on 11 Jan 2010 08:37:

Chazal say "Isha chemas malei tsoah, upiah malei dam". If you think about it, it's a rather disturbing thought. It makes you disgusted with the concept of a woman.
This might sound extreme, but you are in an extreme situation. Why don't you accustom yourself to seeing her that way. Let that be the thought which goes through your mind every time you pass her room.
If you think this is nuts then I guess just take someone elses advice, but chazal tell you to do this - and for a very good reason, because it works.
Hang in there man,
KG


KG, I disagree with your approach.

Thinking of women in this regard is yet again another DE-PERSONIFICATION of a human being, meaning that again you are turning her into an object in your mind. Instead of an attractive Sex-Object, now into a disgusting bloody object. But it's still the same koach of turing her into a object. And that's opposite of what we are trying to accomplish, even as first aid.

This topic could be a new thread on it's own.

What we learned in DC's Calls is to PERSONIFY. To think of her as a human being with hopes and dreams and a life separate from yours. Of course, we're not talking about fantasizing, or trying to befriend this person. But making her into a human being just like you, with faults and greatness of their own. Someone with parents, someone who has friends, family, joy and sadness. In short, as a person. The videos we used to watch, the pictures we used to see made these women onto objects, not people. One of the biggest turn-offs guys joke about is that a girl was really attractive until she opened her mouth. Once she became a real person, and you found even one small flaw, that's it - you're outa here.

Do the same thing here. She's not a bag of blood. She's a person, with feelings and flaws, WHICH YOU DON'T REALLY CARE TO GET TO KNOW. CAUSE IF YOU WOULD, YOU'LD KNOW THAT YOU'D BE DISAPPOINTED. So now it's easier to project that feeling into the situation NOW, and learn to have just enough dislike to make her uninteresting.

Different approach. Better results.
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Re: Why in the world did I get married? 07 Mar 2016 17:32 #280578

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realsimcha wrote:

ataglance12345 wrote:
It seems that at certain times, the lust factor just increases exponentially. Every woman I see on the street lately, I begin to fantasize. It is embarassing and demeaning to both myself and the object of my lust fantasy. I try to keep my head down and not stare, but at some point I must look up and, boom, a like clockwork, pretty woman is within eye sight.

I got issues.



you and me both! I had an idea that has helped for me. Sometimes when i see a woman whom i might feel lust for i think about her father and how much he must love her and want to protect her. I think about the fact that she has parents who want whats best for her. Maybe she has a husband who would walk through fire for her or children who depend on her. either way, this helps me to not look at her a s a"thing" but rather as a person with a life and relatonships and meaning...
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Re: The Women object!! 18 Apr 2016 22:22 #285076

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The.guard wrote
1) The 12 Steps groups around the world are intentionally mixed, even though it is known that the opposite sexes do trigger each other in group support - especially for addicts. And yes, this can -and has - led to trouble, but only with those who hadn't really hit bottom or weren't really ready for the groups yet. The idea behind the intentional mixing, is that the men should learn to stop objectifying and sexualizing women, and through hearing about their struggles and giving each other support, the men begin to see women in a different light. And this is an important part of the healing process.  

2) HOWEVER - and this is a big HOWEVER, as frum people, we can't take these kind of risks, even if there is some benefit to be found in it. The risk of even one person falling is not worth the gain.
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Re: The Women object!! 18 Apr 2016 22:32 #285077

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Nosson wrote on 31 May 2009 18:23:


I do do slaa online its really anonymous they cant even hear you...
If you are insane you need to do anything to get back on track Rabbi Twersky feels the same way as well

here is something else to think of
it really really made me think of this from a different perspective!, I got this from a goy!!! 

Then I said that "I thought I was a kind a friendly person" I got quite a shock from what came next: 
  "When I objectify someone ... I rob them of their individuality, their humanity, their human rights, their dignity, their thoughts, their opinions, their spirituality, their beliefs, their history, their choices, and everything about them that makes them the wonderful unique individuals they all really are. I don't need none of that stuff. I can and do use them as I see fit. That is my purpose for them. Other than their usefulness to me, they have little or no part in my life. In simple point of fact, it is much harder for me to objectifysomeone I actually know, since all that reality gets in the way of a perfectly wonderful fantasy.   

    Now, just how friendly is that ...  really? Does that match my personal definition of friendly? How does my personal definition of friendly stack up against an dictionary or encyclopedia definition? Am I possibly using the wrong words and terms here?  One reason I mention this is a dichotomy in sex and love addiction itself. Most of us addicts do not love ourselves. So how on earth can we love someone else? We all have our own definition of 'love'. We all think we know what the word means. it's a really good idea to check that self definition, in writing, against the ones in the dictionary and encyclopedia. See if maybe we are a tad off base. 

    Now, just how sensitive is that ...  really? How do I define sensitive? How does my own definition of sensitive stack up against an dictionary or encyclopedia definition? Am I possibly using the wrong words and terms here?   

    If I tell myself I am a friendly, sensitive, caring person and, in my fantasy world, I am none of those things ... I have a dichotomy in my life. I am doing two opposing actions at the same time. I cancel myself out. I am basically unethical, dishonest, and living a life that is a lie. To put it mildly I may well be somewhat immoral. I can not live a lie and be at peace and comfort in my life. I can not achieve any satisfaction much less serenity. I have to decide, discover, who I really am and want I want and need and be honest with myself  first and then other people about those things"
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Re: The Women object!! 01 May 2016 04:18 #286173

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Blind Beggar wrote on 30 May 2011 11:41:
Today I will try not to lust after, objectify or deify any woman or girl.
Tomorrow I will try not to lust after, objectify or deify any woman or girl.



Dov wrote on 30 May 2011 11:41:
The only insurance and tefila you can make today that may have some chance of being effective to improve tomorrow is doing right today. That's it.

In frum words, the only segula for tomorrow's sobriety is today's.

Not so for the white-knuckler, lo aleinu R"l, for those guys the more days they hold back, the more desperate to act out they become! For them, counting the days is the disease and the cause of their future acting out itself!

Bar minon.
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