This is from EsLaasos

Recently heard a shiur from a well-known and respected Rav that the root of most of our problems is the lifestyle where it has become the norm to chase indulgence in physical pleasures as long as it has a hechsher.
He referred to the "frum newspapers" (he added the quotation marks) with page after page of glossy pictures of a steak, bottle of wine, vacation paradise etc.
I have heard similar thoughts from other Rabonim before.

So, my question to the forum is - has anyone:

option 1 above: worked on minimizing other physical pleasures aside from lust as a tool to reduce dependence on/obsession with lust

option 2 above: noticed that as they let go of lust, they replaced it with a different "fix"

option 3 above: noticed that as they let go of lust (with true sobriety), their interest in other physical pleasures also decreased

option 4 above: have an opinion to share

Poll results will be summarized and published - assuming I get responses.

Can you spell out the choices here in the thread? The actual poll appears to have a character limit.

Bigmoish wrote:


done!

Maybe we could rephrase the question as follows

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies.

Have you?
a) Actively minimized other pleasure outlets too?
b) Replaced it with other pleasure outlets?
c) Felt a decrease in your interest for other pleasure outlets?"

I don't live an 'indulgent' lifestyle. And I haven't experienced any of the 3 you mentioned, in the recent months that I reduced dependence on obsession with lust.

My honest answer is
d) none of the above

Another 2 points.
1-Can it be that some of us have always been capable of minimizing other pleasures, but not be in control of Lust?
2-There was a short span that I actively minimized other pleasure outlets with the help of one of my favorite books (Duties of the Heart Gate of abstinance), and that actually did slightly restrain Lust too, but it wasn't something that I could keep trucking with for miles... Im not yet on the level of that holy book

Thank you Reb Cordnoy as always!!

markz wrote:


So answer none of the above.
How can I switch the question when I am merely an ibber zugger?

cordnoy wrote:


By all means, brevity is the soul of wit (Shakespeare). I personally like some of the changes, but not all. A pleasure outlet is not always a bad thing whereas the premise of the drosho was that indulgence is. Also the word "fix" has its own connotations.
I didn't create the poll, so it's not up to me, but if I was the ibber zugger I would be happy to reword it as follows:

a) Actively minimized indulgence in other pleasure outlets as an aid to reducing indulgence in lust?
b) Replaced lust with another fix?
c) Discovered an increased ability to overcome self-indulgence in other outlets
d) Other - please explain

eslaasos wrote:


Thanks

To clarify....an ibber zugger says over as is.

The only thing I did was to insert into poll. I was limited to three or four words. If you can find better words to suit eslaasos' intent, please let us know.

Thanks

I have worked on minimizing other indulgences for years, especially indulging in unhealhy food and idle relaxation (novels, magazines, movies, spectator sports, the news, talk radio). I have also disciplined myself to exercise regularly and to get up early in the morning to learn before davening.

Despite all of this, I still was completely consumed with lust.

Until I discovered this website and understood for the first time that what I had was an addiction, not stam a taivah.

I do attribute my beginner's luck streak (currently 6-1/2 years) in part to the fact that I was already living a very disciplined life in other areas.

The only way i get my mind off of lust is by watching sports and cooking shows instead. My eyes needs video!
Baruch Hashem since ellul started I have avoided even R rated media but i have done it only by Eating alot to feed my pleasure addiction and using private time watching kosher videos.
Mu lust still is way up there though.
I'm workin'!

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies. How has that impacted indulging in other pleasure outlets?

1. I increase as replacement
2. They have been minimized
3. I minimize actively
4. None"

I relate so much with what AlexE wrote.
Besides for
"get up early in the morning to learn", because I found a new outlet which I became addicted to reading at night i.e. yours truly (guard you eyes.com). Any solutions how to break this addiction? I often would be up late on bad websites, now I have replaced it with this addiction - no kidding.

Anybody else out there that has also replaced their SA with GA, and are kept up late at night b/c of it? Yeah I know this should be posted in a new thread...

baaltayva wrote:


Rachel Ray is way too hot for me.
I recently looked at a TV that had a football game on. Just for a second. As the guy made the catch (or whatever) a bunch of extremely provocative cheerleaders were seen in the background jumping up in unison.

How could I possibly remain sober looking at that stuff?

Regarding your eyes needing video.
This is a whole nother big topic.
It's about the need to escape into the digital void.
We addicts have a need to escape.
For many of us, we have channeled that need to the endless escapist world of video.

I think we need to learn to live without escaping.
To live. Really.

AlexEliezer wrote:


With the help of a level of siyata dishmaya where Hashem literally took me and put me in a new situation, I've managed to divert my escapes into healthy non-digital formats but I'm still escaping.

Any ideas? You have by your own admission been successful for a long time. You might save me hours of time and cost my therapist a couple of thousand dollars (BH insurance covers it).

cordnoy wrote:


Heck, how do I now my own intent, I'm just exploring.

My Yiddish can handle ibber zugger (as long as it's spelled in English), but I meant your style of ibber zugger - and besides, after all you created the poll.

markz wrote:


Thank you Mark.

I'm along the same lines as AE, but not up to his level.
Looking back, I was never that much into food or other self-indulgence until a few years ago when it started to grow, and I would occasionally cut back so I have found it to be therapeutic to cut back, and a helpful tool in feeling more in control of my urges.

The word "lust" is more specific, but I believe it can be translated into Hebrew as taavah, which is a more generic term of desire and can be applied to money, food etc. as well as women.

So I think both A and C can be true and were both true for me somewhat.

As AE points out, B is a separate issue of escapism that is commonly a co-morbid issue.