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Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos
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Poll: Indulgence Chasin' with an OU by: EsLaasos

minimized other pleasures 3 18.8%
lust dissipated, replaced 8 50%
helped across the board 3 18.8%
have an opinion on this to share 2 12.5%
Total number of voters:16 ( mggsbms AlexEliezer hopeful cordnoy Bigmoish neshamaincharge Shlomo24 Yesod yidtryingharder stillgoing goodchange613 eslaasos Markz baaltayva Yesodi Hakolhevel )
Only registered users can participate to this poll

TOPIC: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 5828 Views

Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 20 Sep 2015 20:40 #264215

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This is from EsLaasos

Recently heard a shiur from a well-known and respected Rav that the root of most of our problems is the lifestyle where it has become the norm to chase indulgence in physical pleasures as long as it has a hechsher.
He referred to the "frum newspapers" (he added the quotation marks) with page after page of glossy pictures of a steak, bottle of wine, vacation paradise etc.
I have heard similar thoughts from other Rabonim before.

So, my question to the forum is - has anyone:

option 1 above: worked on minimizing other physical pleasures aside from lust as a tool to reduce dependence on/obsession with lust

option 2 above: noticed that as they let go of lust, they replaced it with a different "fix"

option 3 above: noticed that as they let go of lust (with true sobriety), their interest in other physical pleasures also decreased

option 4 above: have an opinion to share

Poll results will be summarized and published - assuming I get responses.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.
Last Edit: 20 Sep 2015 20:46 by cordnoy.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 20 Sep 2015 20:42 #264216

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Can you spell out the choices here in the thread? The actual poll appears to have a character limit.
FAQ's (Great for newcomers!!!)
Handbook | Skep's Tips
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www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/236327-Bigmoish-tries-to-be-good
www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/4-On-the-Way-to-90-Days/236329-Bigmoishs-path-to-tahara

"Expectation is the mother of frustration" - gibbor120
"Today, damn it! Today!" - cordnoy
"Desiring is not a sin at all, but just a sign that you are not dead yet" - Dov
"We are our own worst observer" - eslaasos's therapist
WDHW!!!

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 20 Sep 2015 20:51 #264218

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Bigmoish wrote:
Can you spell out the choices here in the thread? The actual poll appears to have a character limit.


done!
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 02:02 #264237

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Maybe we could rephrase the question as follows

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies.

Have you?
a) Actively minimized other pleasure outlets too?
b) Replaced it with other pleasure outlets?
c) Felt a decrease in your interest for other pleasure outlets?
"

I don't live an 'indulgent' lifestyle. And I haven't experienced any of the 3 you mentioned, in the recent months that I reduced dependence on obsession with lust.

My honest answer is
d) none of the above

Another 2 points.
1-Can it be that some of us have always been capable of minimizing other pleasures, but not be in control of Lust?
2-There was a short span that I actively minimized other pleasure outlets with the help of one of my favorite books (Duties of the Heart Gate of abstinance), and that actually did slightly restrain Lust too, but it wasn't something that I could keep trucking with for miles... Im not yet on the level of that holy book

Thank you Reb Cordnoy as always!!
My Story---------Dov Quotes


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Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 02:03 by Markz.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 02:30 #264242

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markz wrote:
Maybe we could rephrase the question as follows

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies.

Have you?
a) Actively minimized other pleasure outlets too?
b) Replaced it with other pleasure outlets?
c) Felt a decrease in your interest for other pleasure outlets?
"

I don't live an 'indulgent' lifestyle. And I haven't experienced any of the 3 you mentioned, in the recent months that I reduced dependence on obsession with lust.

My honest answer is
d) none of the above

Another 2 points.
1-Can it be that some of us have always been capable of minimizing other pleasures, but not be in control of Lust?
2-There was a short span that I actively minimized other pleasure outlets with the help of one of my favorite books (Duties of the Heart Gate of abstinance), and that actually did slightly restrain Lust too, but it wasn't something that I could keep trucking with for miles... Im not yet on the level of that holy book

Thank you Reb Cordnoy as always!!


So answer none of the above.
How can I switch the question when I am merely an ibber zugger?
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 08:49 #264276

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cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
Maybe we could rephrase the question as follows

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies.

Have you?
a) Actively minimized other pleasure outlets too?
b) Replaced it with other pleasure outlets?
c) Felt a decrease in your interest for other pleasure outlets?
"



So answer none of the above.
How can I switch the question when I am merely an ibber zugger?


By all means, brevity is the soul of wit (Shakespeare). I personally like some of the changes, but not all. A pleasure outlet is not always a bad thing whereas the premise of the drosho was that indulgence is. Also the word "fix" has its own connotations.
I didn't create the poll, so it's not up to me, but if I was the ibber zugger I would be happy to reword it as follows:

a) Actively minimized indulgence in other pleasure outlets as an aid to reducing indulgence in lust?
b) Replaced lust with another fix?
c) Discovered an increased ability to overcome self-indulgence in other outlets
d) Other - please explain
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
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Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 10:26 #264279

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eslaasos wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
markz wrote:
Maybe we could rephrase the question as follows

"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies.

Have you?
a) Actively minimized other pleasure outlets too?
b) Replaced it with other pleasure outlets?
c) Felt a decrease in your interest for other pleasure outlets?
"



So answer none of the above.
How can I switch the question when I am merely an ibber zugger?


By all means, brevity is the soul of wit (Shakespeare). I personally like some of the changes, but not all. A pleasure outlet is not always a bad thing whereas the premise of the drosho was that indulgence is. Also the word "fix" has its own connotations.
I didn't create the poll, so it's not up to me, but if I was the ibber zugger I would be happy to reword it as follows:

a) Actively minimized indulgence in other pleasure outlets as an aid to reducing indulgence in lust?
b) Replaced lust with another fix?
c) Discovered an increased ability to overcome self-indulgence in other outlets
d) Other - please explain


Thanks

To clarify....an ibber zugger says over as is.

The only thing I did was to insert into poll. I was limited to three or four words. If you can find better words to suit eslaasos' intent, please let us know.

Thanks
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 14:06 #264291

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I have worked on minimizing other indulgences for years, especially indulging in unhealhy food and idle relaxation (novels, magazines, movies, spectator sports, the news, talk radio). I have also disciplined myself to exercise regularly and to get up early in the morning to learn before davening.

Despite all of this, I still was completely consumed with lust.

Until I discovered this website and understood for the first time that what I had was an addiction, not stam a taivah.

I do attribute my beginner's luck streak (currently 6-1/2 years) in part to the fact that I was already living a very disciplined life in other areas.
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 14:07 by AlexEliezer.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 14:20 #264293

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The only way i get my mind off of lust is by watching sports and cooking shows instead. My eyes needs video!
Baruch Hashem since ellul started I have avoided even R rated media but i have done it only by Eating alot to feed my pleasure addiction and using private time watching kosher videos.
Mu lust still is way up there though.
I'm workin'!

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 14:29 #264294

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"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies. How has that impacted indulging in other pleasure outlets?

  1. I increase as replacement
  2. They have been minimized
  3. I minimize actively
  4. None"


My Story---------Dov Quotes


What works for me:
ForumInternet Restrictions




FREE LUST TRUCK TOWING
Click HERE to checkout;
100 Day Success Stories: cordnoy, Dov, Gevura and more...
• Awesome Threads Saved for You
• Cast Your Vote

GYE Plenty Solutions
➣ The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk

➣ Nice Trucking Story
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 14:30 by Markz.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 14:39 #264295

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I relate so much with what AlexE wrote.
Besides for
"get up early in the morning to learn", because I found a new outlet which I became addicted to reading at night i.e. yours truly (guard you eyes.com). Any solutions how to break this addiction? I often would be up late on bad websites, now I have replaced it with this addiction - no kidding.

Anybody else out there that has also replaced their SA with GA, and are kept up late at night b/c of it? Yeah I know this should be posted in a new thread...
My Story---------Dov Quotes


What works for me:
ForumInternet Restrictions




FREE LUST TRUCK TOWING
Click HERE to checkout;
100 Day Success Stories: cordnoy, Dov, Gevura and more...
• Awesome Threads Saved for You
• Cast Your Vote

GYE Plenty Solutions
➣ The Mark of Torah - Lust Chizuk

➣ Nice Trucking Story
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 14:43 by Markz.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 14:40 #264296

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baaltayva wrote:
The only way i get my mind off of lust is by watching sports and cooking shows instead. My eyes needs video!


Rachel Ray is way too hot for me.
I recently looked at a TV that had a football game on. Just for a second. As the guy made the catch (or whatever) a bunch of extremely provocative cheerleaders were seen in the background jumping up in unison.

How could I possibly remain sober looking at that stuff?

Regarding your eyes needing video.
This is a whole nother big topic.
It's about the need to escape into the digital void.
We addicts have a need to escape.
For many of us, we have channeled that need to the endless escapist world of video.

I think we need to learn to live without escaping.
To live. Really.
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 14:45 by AlexEliezer.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 15:08 #264301

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AlexEliezer wrote:

Regarding your eyes needing video.
This is a whole nother big topic.
It's about the need to escape into the digital void.
We addicts have a need to escape.
For many of us, we have channeled that need to the endless escapist world of video.

I think we need to learn to live without escaping.
To live. Really.


With the help of a level of siyata dishmaya where Hashem literally took me and put me in a new situation, I've managed to divert my escapes into healthy non-digital formats but I'm still escaping.

Any ideas? You have by your own admission been successful for a long time. You might save me hours of time and cost my therapist a couple of thousand dollars (BH insurance covers it).
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
My Thread    My Other Thread
Last Edit: 21 Sep 2015 15:08 by eslaasos.

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 15:11 #264303

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cordnoy wrote:
eslaasos wrote:
I didn't create the poll, so it's not up to me, but if I was the ibber zugger I would be happy to reword it as follows:

a) Actively minimized indulgence in other pleasure outlets as an aid to reducing indulgence in lust?
b) Replaced lust with another fix?
c) Discovered an increased ability to overcome self-indulgence in other outlets
d) Other - please explain


Thanks

To clarify....an ibber zugger says over as is.

The only thing I did was to insert into poll. I was limited to three or four words. If you can find better words to suit eslaasos' intent, please let us know.

Thanks


Heck, how do I now my own intent, I'm just exploring.

My Yiddish can handle ibber zugger (as long as it's spelled in English), but I meant your style of ibber zugger - and besides, after all you created the poll.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
My Thread    My Other Thread

Re: Chasin', Pleasurin', Minimizin' by: EsLaasos 21 Sep 2015 15:24 #264307

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markz wrote:
"You have been successfully minimizing Lust with your unique strategies. How has that impacted indulging in other pleasure outlets?

  1. I increase as replacement
  2. They have been minimized
  3. I minimize actively
  4. None"




Thank you Mark.

I'm along the same lines as AE, but not up to his level.
Looking back, I was never that much into food or other self-indulgence until a few years ago when it started to grow, and I would occasionally cut back so I have found it to be therapeutic to cut back, and a helpful tool in feeling more in control of my urges.

The word "lust" is more specific, but I believe it can be translated into Hebrew as taavah, which is a more generic term of desire and can be applied to money, food etc. as well as women.

So I think both A and C can be true and were both true for me somewhat.

As AE points out, B is a separate issue of escapism that is commonly a co-morbid issue.
Quotes that speak to me
What do we replace it with....Life (Cordnoy)
My Thread    My Other Thread
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