Hello Shlomo24,

Firstly, great going, I want to compliment you on your valiant struggle(s) and hatzlacha in all, not to mention the shidduch whenever you end up chasing that down 

The thing i was wondering was,
I stumbled across this thread on Friday, but didn't have time to write, but I couldn't help but make this point

Not to diminish your challenge in any way, but I have noticed in myself, that despite being very much a "Man" and liking "Ladies", (and the more they are lady the better), I am aware that my masculine identity can increase acutely rise with certain stimuli. What I mean in simple English, is that when I am doing activities that are highly active like boxing or working hard in the yard, or similar, I find that there is a marked increase in my testosterone and hence a boost in the feeling of masculinity.

I may add, that the way i dress also effect the sense of manliness. Frankly, when i look around and i see all these fellas with perfectly coiffed hair, clean shaven cheeks, soft cottony tight pants, and shoes that look like they should be on Cinderella they are so delicate, it's a surprise to me that they any of them are interested in women. Their wives are BY FAR more manly then a lot of them.

So what i'm getting at, is why not try living a bit more manly on the outside, it may be uncomfortable, but heck if it helps assert your identity as a man, it might be worth it. ??

Just my 2 cents. No offense intended, just trying to address your concern in the dumbest way i can.




 

Yesod, I'm not gonna squash what you wrote, as I do not understand ssa, but that boxing or weightlifting idea may be like ringing dumbells

Following your reasoning - I think I once saw women's boxing on the tube. Are they allowed to drink the wine from havdalla??

Although, Yesod, you did raise one valid point which is something I'm not clear about. I would have thought that SSA is not limited to girly looking men... Perhaps it's only your misconception..

markz wrote on 29 Feb 2016 10:38:

Simply put. 

What would some testosterone increasing activity do to someone trying to assert their identity as a male.
Shouldn't it help? Or will they become women boxers? I dunno?

 

(Quote didn't work).

Thank you Yesod. Your sensitivity is palpable and I really appreciate that. Many times "straight" people don't understand SSA and they can come across as offensive or belittling without meaning to. I can assure that is not the case here, Great job.

In terms of masculinity, masculinity and testosterone are very different things. If it was the case, then all gay people would simply have a chemical imbalance and that is it. SSA stems from a lack of or confused masculine identity. There are many gay men who have bulging muscles and are covered in hair, their testosterone is not lacking. Similarly, guys wearing tight pants doesn't necessarily reflect how they feel about their manliness, many women like that look and that dress can actually boost masculinity to those guys. I know of a guy in school who was like that.

I appreciate your suggestion about boxing or weightlifting and the like, and what you feel is very normal and appropriate. But different guys have different meanings to what is masculine to them. For example, I play basketball pretty often. To some of my SSA friends, they think it is very manly, I don't think so. I just like playing the game and it's fun, nothing more or less. I agree in theory with your examples, but gyms are a touchy subject for me and frankly I don't have the time to work out or to box. In my past experience, the gym didn't feel masculine, it just made me objectify myself more and look at my abs or whatnot. I am searching for things that are healthy that I can connect with masculinity.  

Regardless, shkoiach. 

Shlomo24 wrote on 28 Feb 2016 22:54:

Ummmm. First of al we are glad to hear that you are making progress, KOT.

But one thing to point out to whoever is reading this, is that it is a serious issur min hatoirah to take pleasure in a woman or a man unless that woman is married to you.

Maybe in your case shlomo if it helps for you, it's eis la'asois lashem heifeiry toirusechu, I guess.

I don't want burst any bubbles chas v'shuliom, so take it or leave it.

Chazak V'emutz

What you said is previously understood. But I think you may have missed the point.

Mesayin wrote on 29 Feb 2016 20:17:

First of all, I dont think that we are disscusing women here. secondly, i dont believe that the question is weather or not to take pleasure  from it. It was pleasureable. Call it a anamilistic pleasure if you want, but thats reality. It also is wrong. No one is denying that. The question is, should one get all down on himself that he's bad etc.. because he enjoyed it. Or should he say ''i'm human, i enjoyed it. I need to stop it. Here's how...''
And lastly, this is the first post that i typed on my phone AND ITS REALLY ANNOYING!!  and how do you run spell check on the phone.

I don't know if we should read too much into or rebuke Shlomo.
Are you in his shoes?
Probabaly not

He wrote yesterday that he was writing something triggering and I appreciate that, and I therefore skipped the triggerin paragraph

I think there may be some misplaced understanding going on here. Guys we may never be able to understand other guys mindset, and I assure you some great guys don't understand mine either (do I??)

Shlomo said it was pleasurable. He stated a fact. He wasn't staying if it was a virtuous act

Now I'm gonna quote a Teshuva on SSA, which I came across by a Sefardi Rabbi Zamir Cohen shlita. If it's chizuk for anyone pls let me know

-----------------------

Markz i come on the gye to avoid having to do tedious things like reading tshuvos, whats the gist, i got bored halfway through

Shlomo24 wrote on 29 Feb 2016 20:13:

Thanks for clarifying.

Now i still have a question. I get that this is not a chemical imbalance issue,  which is why i referred to mode of dress etc.

What I'm curious to know is, can there be any psychological changes effected by immersion in the aforementioned activities and lifestyles. 
Can living different (like a healthy man, not a gym rat who ogles his own breasts for a living) effect one's gender wholeness identity whatchamahoozit, or is therapy the only road. 

Thanks,
Yesod
 

It's for Shlomo in his spare time

This is for you - actually Ill put it in its right place on a different thread, give me a few minutes...

curtains....




No man, I need big curtains!!!

Markz, Shlomo's not the only ssa guy on gye. You should chime in sometime to our tuesday call (yesod, you can join too  )  
that tushuva was so long i needed more ink for my screen. It was about as long as my tshuva needs to be. Any way to explain it in english?

stillgoing wrote on 01 Mar 2016 03:02:

Are you implying i have ssa attraction? , cuz if i do,  lord have mercy, that means I'm a woman!


 

It's ok darling yesodz, you can getz off your high heelz now

SG, I should join calls - I just can't in middle of day
And hey I didn't say you don't understand our dear Shlomo, I don't think I do, so how can I tell you if you do or don't. I believe even in ssa there's different levels. Either way, go easy on him (I can give it to him, cause he deserve a spanking for some other stuff he's done in gye eg here)

I think I better vacate this thread, 
maybe visit peloni and see how he's doing
Lemme just keep on walking.....

"Click click click click"