Day 12: I am not sure if I am starting to have fantasies in my brain more often or, of I am noticing them more because I am on this site and more aware of what it happening in my head. I am not even sure what is normal. Is it normal for an inappropriate thought to jump into my head for a moment about a woman? Nothing l'maaseh, and nothing that leads to any change in my words or actions. Just the brief thought infiltrating my mind. Today this happened. I had to interact with some women for work. A random thought popped into my head. I was a bit taken aback, not sure if this is something that I am just noticing now. I reminded myself that the woman were Hashem's children. The thought vanished completely.  Normal?

Yesterday, I was driving, and a scene from a book [a historical fiction about a very prust guy] popped into my head. It is one of those things that for some reason really attached itself to me at the time. And when I thought of it, it really started to haunt me and I started to feel a very unwelcome feeling that in the past might have caused me to change my shopping list. BH I was ok. I got busy.

Today doing well. Very tired. Craving some mindless TV. Trying to stick to what's important. Thanks to you all for another week of chizuk.

Random thoughts still invade me.
Difference between now and then....
1. Now, there is a turn off switch.
2. It is not constant.

B'hatzlachah

I love laughing. I wouldn't be able to get through life without it.

It's great to see you trucking along.

Day 13: Good day, but long and exhausting. Need to get to bed soon. Staying up this tired is not a good idea. So keeping it short for today. KOT everyone!

realsimcha wrote:

Not that what I relate to should be considered normal, but that has been happening- for the most part,  to me as long as I can remember. Even in my " good times", fleeting thoughts came to my head. Did I think about them twice? Depends. In my good times no. In my not too good times yes. That was always the difference for me. I'm sure you have learnt a technique how to deal with these thoughts, and state the obvious that the more you think about them the more they affect you. That's been a big yisod as I have been struggling with unwarranted thoughts for a long time(OCD apparently has that midday). 
Glad your doing well and doing what's important.

I think my imagination is more clear and vivid than it might otherwise be because of all the pictures and stuff I have stored up in it.

realsimcha wrote on 20 May 2016 18:17:

In my humble opinion:
Unless you're a tzadik, it's completely normal for an inappropriate thought to jump into your head. But there is a difference between that and fantasizing, which is understandable, but not so okay. The fantasizing part comes from a weakness of דעת, which lets the yetzer hora indulge. The trick in strengthening דעת is not to get worked up about it. It's not so okay to fantasize, but in order to find that fine line between the original thought falling into your head and fantasizing about it, you need to be calm.
That is theoretically speaking. Really you shouldn't be getting involved in finding the fine line between a thought falling in and fantasizing in the first place. When you push the fantasy away properly as soon as you discover yourself fantasizing (which in the beginning may take a few more seconds than later, when you are used to it), without feelings of guilt from a potential aveira or regret over a missed pleasurable fantasy, it should be relatively easy to push it away. Eventually, you will immediately feel when a thought turns into a fantasy, and be able to immediately push it away, but as before, in that eventual case too, you will have to be unburdened from subconscious discomforts that may attach themselves to the effort.
If you have questions about how to not feel guilty, etc., please let me know.

gyeuser444 wrote on 22 May 2016 22:58:

Fascinating. A lot to think about. Thanks for your thoughts.

Day 14: I need to do more. I have not fallen but I feel that I am losing my edge a little bit. I have to start doing more so that I am not here reporting to you what I need to do not to fall "again". I don't want to fall. I want to start doing those things now!!!!

gyeuser444 wrote on 22 May 2016 22:58:

I'm interested in your sources and in your history.

Unless you're a tzadik, it's completely normal for an inappropriate thought to jump into your head:
לקוטי אמרים תניא פרק כז


There should be no guilt/atzvus from the person's perceived imperfection. If there is it is quite possibly from גסות הרוח. (See Chapters 26-31 where most any other type of feeling bad (worry of punishment/guilt from previous sins, etc.) is completely discouraged.)
I would add, that having guilt this time from realizing that one had that very guilt/atzvus during previous similar times -which perhaps came from גסות הרוח, is also from גסות הרוח (or else is completely discouraged from elsewhere in Chapters 26-31).

A quote from פרק לא


See Chapters 26-31 at length.

A person may not be immediately aware at first that he is מהרהר
לקוטי אמרים תניא פרק יב


The above shows that there is a difference between the initial falling in and the subsequent cogitating/fantasizing.
There is also a difference between cogitating over the initial thought/s and fantasizing, though both are אסור. The difference between cogitating and fantasizing is similar to the difference between הסתכלות בנשים and fantasizing which clearly uses more mental effort. Cogitating also uses extra energy, more than הסתכלות, but less than fantasizing.

The point about weak דעת is what in my opinion allows for the fantasizing.

See at length שערי תשובה לאדמו"ר האמצעי ד,ד:


כתר שם טוב קנ"ב א:

gyeuser444 wrote on 23 May 2016 02:58:

 Women are evil  ?

Day 15: Today, for the first time, I listened to Cords' call. I say listened because I was too shy to actually participate. I feel like the new guy. I was so happy to be listening. I felt that there was so much there in such a short time. I am still having a hard time breaking out of my isolation. I am grateful to Cords for his help with this. Just the right thing at the right time. I was starting  to slip lately. I have alot on my plate and the pressure from all sides just felt too strong. I hope that the new actions that I am taking will help me maintain my sobriety and allow me to continue on this path. I would not be anywhere without GYE. I am naturally so full of myself that I have a hard time saying it but its true. My life would look dramatically different - read: a h of alot worse - without the chevra here. 
My work schedule makes the call time difficult but I am working on making it work. 
Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Speaking up has been a challenge for me as well, especially when you don't know who's listening in. But I've found it to be helpful, hiding is never a good idea, and talking to a group of people takes it to a different level.

Hey guys,  noone knows who you are,  trust me,  and if we did, there ain't nothing to be ashamed of,  we are all in the same frikkin boat (with cordnoy at the wheel)
So speak up,  sounded like a mice convention today. 
We'd love to hear your thoughts, experiences,  questions and quips.
Much love
Y