Shlomo24 wrote on 23 Feb 2016 06:58:

i have no idea.
it's in a journal, and i do not vouch for the accuracy, nor do i care.
i simply quoted it, for people here need to know that there are other ways, especially when it was written that there is only one way.
Like I have been sayin', it makes little difference to me, for I will continue the readin' and continue workin' the steps the way i understand 'em and i will continue the calls with the books as our basis.

cordnoy wrote on 23 Feb 2016 03:33:



Ah, if only statistics could show us how many of the 92% had true willingness, open-mindedness and honesty.

Thanks Waston,
As we know, if there is a will there's a way!

But we have to understand that wanting alone doesn't make you rich or sober, only working  sweating davening and being ready to pay the price of becoming sober might make us being part of the winners.

Almost everybody wants to become sober, but not everybody is ready to pay the price it costs.
 

OTR wrote on 23 Feb 2016 04:21:


Well it's not surprising that you found counseling worthless because psychotherapy actually rated pretty low in those same studies. I did therapy for a long time and was expecting it to cure me- and lo and behold for a period of time things got worse and worse during therapy than without any.

But therapy was very helpful in many other ways, just not in getting sober.

Watson wrote on 23 Feb 2016 08:56:

yes, those sad and unfortunate 92%ers.

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

OTR wrote on 23 Feb 2016 04:21:



OTR - No one tool necessarily works for everyone, and no one therapist is suitable for everyone

Day 15: Today was almost the beginning of the end. I had a late start and was feeling that nervous tension that can usually only be relieved with ... and even though i had posted every morning for over two weeks, i was not posting this morning. It was nagging at me in the background. Why aren't i posting. Then it hit me. I am not posting so that I can act out. There it is. There is no doubt about it. So, here I am... posting and not in the mood. But i am here. so there. 

Cords, you scared the -- out of me. Tryin not to belong to the 92%.

T'was just to keep things in perspective.
Do what works.

cordnoy wrote on 23 Feb 2016 07:03:

Maskim. Many people may not get sober for life but many people get some sobriety below their belt, (literally). That's better than nothing.

I tend to think that a lot of people have the "all or nothing" problem. I know I do. The addict in me just says, to heck with it, you already acted out a little, just forget it and give in.... which is where l begin to totally not recognize myself.. Sobriety for a little while... even a day is still better than none. 

OTR wrote on 23 Feb 2016 04:21:

sorry just read this wonderful long conversation about how well somethings work better for some while not for other and how nothing is absolute... its amazing how much I can learn on these forums! Just wanted to put my two sense in.. I found that first of all there are many therapists and that just as you find in any field there people GOOD at their job and there are people BAD at there job and thats pretty simple and understood. The same applies to therapy: there are GOOD therapists and BAD therapists. I have seen this first hand. On top of this some therapists are for some and others are for others. Like sometimes everyone just knows that a certain pizza shop in town is just not good while the other one is known to be superior and sometimes it just depends on individual taste. The same applies to therapists just a lot more expensive and more of a thercha to jump around to each one and takes forever to realize they arent even doing anything for you. A very frustrating process and difficult to find the right one with the right method.
My experience with a therapist was positive just because he was able to clear my thoughts and experiences and gave me methods to uncover why I might of been acting outing out. The process led me uncover a lot about me and made me decide to understand what I was doing wrong on a daily basis and how its connected to why I wanted to act out. It also hwlped reconcile my ADD and OCD with my addiction. Fool proof? no. Sufficient for full blown addicts? no clue. But I assume (again cant say absolute) any addiction stems from character traits but interesting that I don't see much of this stressed in the hand book (obviously need chazara so not sure about that). So aside from psychotherapy and anti-depressions, might be a little more oout there.
I am far from healed and still need a lot of guidance on how to deal with addiction, but I strongly feel it at least for me has to do with character traits which bouncing my thoughts and life to a therapist helped with. 
What are your guys opinion on this? Do any of you feel you have this problem with nothing to work on in your middos?

One of the main reasons I work the steps, and especially step four and on, is to fix my bad character traits.

Day 16: Things are a little easier today. I am a little calmer and able to focus on work. I am feeling a little less like posting and I have to push myself to do it because i know how vital this is for me. So here it is. I have been reading all the recent posts and its really amazing how hard everyone is trying to get past this issue in our lives. Its amazing how central its become to who we are. Even though we all have different lives and different families and live all over the world, we are connected through this nightmare. I think that we are turning this nightmare into something beautiful by using our shared weakness to become a shared strength. 

Thanks again to you all...

RS: Many of us threaten to post on our threads every day. Few actually follow up on that.
Keep up the good work.

Bigmoish wrote on 24 Feb 2016 21:55:

Thanks for the chizuk. This is not easy for me, so your kind words go a long way.