I would definitely be interested in seeing other mehalchim that work for addicts. I am under the impression that there is no other program that really works. But if there is mah tov umanaim. 

......... a bullet 

Ok Yesod what are all those ............dots about

and bullets don't work as concluded in the dirty J section, but I didn't post the link cos that would be a little triggering

OTR wrote on 23 Feb 2016 02:27:



As a practicin' twelve-stepper, I will still let you know that there is a report that only eight percent of people who attend SA actually recover, and of the 48 methods of recovery, SA ranks at #38.

cordnoy wrote on 23 Feb 2016 03:33:




Whoa Cordnoy, I would have never had the guts to post that- possibly cause I'm not in SA currently- but I've seen stats from as low as 5% and a ranking of 48 out of 50 for twelve steps to as high as twenty something percent.

One thing worth mentioning though as one whose done the steps by isn't currently is that for those who the steps do work for, I think many people agree that the depth of the recovery and the way that they improve their lives and the way their living is often something awesome.

I think so as well.

Additionally, i am not a big believer in studies.

Where is this stuff printed and studied- I mean with some sort of real veracity. 48 ways? Sounds like 48 ways to wisdom jk... - I have found for myself that there was nothing that did anything for me so far other than these steps. - I tried therapy, didn't work.. Blew a  boat load of money though... Hypnosis therapy was acutally pretty helpful. As Working Guy writes above, I have found the depth of change through the steps to be the most impactful. But hey if there are more options lay it on me... 

cordnoy wrote on 23 Feb 2016 03:59:

Nine out of ten people who believe in studies are gullible. 

Yesod wrote on 23 Feb 2016 02:50:

Sadly, I think in my case I would still lust even after being dead.... and I mean that. (Ayin the heiliger seforim that say our desires live on we just don't have a body to fulfill them...) 

OTR wrote:

Where did you get those stats

OTR wrote on 23 Feb 2016 04:00:

In his recent book, The Sober Truth: Debunking the Bad Science Behind 12-Step Programs and the Rehab Industry, Lance Dodes, a retired psychiatry professor from Harvard Medical School, looked at Alcoholics Anonymous’s retention rates along with studies on sobriety and rates of active involvement (attending meetings regularly and working the program) among AA members. Based on these data, he put AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent. That is just a rough estimate, but it’s the most precise one I’ve been able to find.I spent three years researching a book about women and alcohol, Her Best-Kept Secret: Why Women Drink—And How They Can Regain Control, which was published in 2013. During that time, I encountered disbelief from doctors and psychiatrists every time I mentioned that the Alcoholics Anonymous success rate appears to hover in the single digits. We’ve grown so accustomed to testimonials from those who say AA saved their life that we take the program’s efficacy as an article of faith. Rarely do we hear from those for whom 12-step treatment doesn’t work. But think about it: How many celebrities can you name who bounced in and out of rehab without ever getting better? Why do we assume they failed the program, rather than that the program failed them?A meticulous analysis of treatments, published more than a decade ago in The Handbook of Alcoholism Treatment Approaches but still considered one of the most comprehensive comparisons, ranks AA 38th out of 48 methods. At the top of the list are brief interventions by a medical professional; motivational enhancement, a form of counseling that aims to help people see the need to change; and acamprosate, a drug that eases cravings.

Cords what 48 ways ? You doing a gullibility test or something. 

And hey,  dont you think we might want to know what #1 is?  

Or is that the type of info noone wants to know? 


Or, is the #1 cure to lust...........
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drumroll.......
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A porn site.












Ps, in case you haven't noticed, i like dots,.
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 cuz It's the only thing i sspell correctly

I know what works for me and for others; I don't care much about other thin's.

I just took issue with someone postin' as fact that 12 steps is the only method to cure an addict.
[I took issue with the comment, not with the poster.]

Cords.. 
IMA check that book and some of the other stuff out for sure. Thanks.

Personally I found counseling worthless, I don't see what a medical professional could do for me other than preoscribe anti-depressants. and I am not looking to take acamprosate. - I should say, I actually did find hypnosis very helpful. (I think I did say that before). But it was expensive and I moved away from the guy I used to see. And I also felt like a dork. Somethign about the therapist client relationship makes me feel well- like an idiot. When I communicate with another addict though, who understands it, and admits their own actions I feel less dorky. 

But if these things work for others GO FOR IT AND DON'T LOOK BACK BAYBE!!! Point is to get this cr*p out and begin living instead of stewing away inside... 

Cords: Does recover in those books mean sober for life?