Hi all!

It's been a while since I have posted. 

I have been clean for roughly 2 and half years. I am not going to run through my whole story but in a nutshell I had issues with chat lines and inappropriate friendships?relationships with women (obviously with acting out). Since getting caught by my wife my life has improved dramatically. I instituted programs and self-improvement to get me to where I am today. Clean. Great relationship with wife. B"H!

I recently landed my first job since leaving kollel. In my position I have to work closely with a woman co-worker. It is a cordial working relationship. However, I find myself in a position where I need to communicate consistently with a lady for the first time in over 2 and half years. Until this point I have not needed to interact much with any ladies. I avoided the whole parsha. If it needed to take place, I would keep it brief. There was almost never a need for continued correspondence. Now things are different, I have to communicate with her through phone calls, email etc. (it is long distance thank G-d). But we are in contact multiple times daily. 

Because of my past I became a natural woman pleaser/magnet. I am sweet, and helpful. She is beginning to warm up to me. I know the mehalech is to keep it professional and not to initiate stam conversation. 
But it is a constant challenge to just stay polite without getting caught up in deeper talk. 

I am in touch with a Rav and report weekly to him. This really helps. But I want  to hear from other's, who share the same perspective as me, what they have experienced. What has worked and what has not worked. How they may have overcome the challenge or CH"V where unable to overcome. 

Thank you for your time!

Welcome back. It is wonderful that you seem to have done quite a bit of work and straightened out your life. Regarding your question: For starters, being transparent and sharing with your rav along with the oilam here is a great idea. It takes courage to do so but you are doing it and it helps. One eitza that has helped when we find ourselves objectifying a woman, is to remind ourselves she is a person. She is someone's wife, daughter, sister, mother, friend. She gets headaches and has bills to pay. One way of really internalizing this is to say a short tefilla for her to have a healthy pleasant day. This way we train our minds - she is off limits to me - she does not belong to me or my fantasies. Hatzlocha and keep posting.

Firstly "fresh start" thanks for the great share
My office setting may change soon in a direction of more female co-workers too

Can you be direct with her and say "Id like to keep building our business relationship, but am not comfortable moving it to a personal level. Do you mind if we keep our communications formal"

If it happens that she says "In that case - I'll work with someone else" you can say to yourself "let go and let Gd"

That's what I would do. Hatzlacha on all fronts ;-)

Hi Fresh Start.

I cannot share with you  my own personal experience, because thank God, Hashem did not put me into your situation. it reminds me though of Chazal, that one of the Amoraim once was dealing with merchandises, and he had a Nisoyon, and he quit his job. Does anyone remember the story in Gemara? and where it is brought down?
But let me add my 2 cents. there  was once a group of Bochurim by a famous Rosh Yeshiva, and they asked the Rosh Yehsive, How is it possible in our days to Be strong in Yiddishkiet. so the Rosh Yeshiva, answered them, That a Bochur that goes around with strength, i am a Yid, and i am close to hashem, and i am not going to fall for these Nisyonos, that Bochur has potential to be clean. But if the attitude is, nah. i cannot do it, its not meant for our times, it is not possible to be truely a Hielige Yid, then we are about to fall. 
So to sumarize, it all depends in the perspective and attitude we look at it. In your situation, if you wake up in the morning and say to yourself, i choose to be Ehrlich and Yiddish, and i will do all it takes to stay this way all day. and you do the right steps to achieve it, then hashem will be with you, and keep you clean.  Remember The pleasure of living with and according ethics, is far more rewarding and lasting, then to live according to our desires. 

Hashem Help Me wrote on 10 Dec 2017 17:43:

Great points. However, I am not objectifying. The challenge is not in my head and fantasy. It is in minimizing my talking with her so it does not build up into anything bigger. It is dangerous for me to even connect with a lady. No matter the level of connection. No matter the age. I have been there and it is not something I want to get involved in. That being said, it is very tempting to shoot the breeze with her at the end of a busy day, when it is clear that she is open to talk.

The challenge is that she is warming up to me and engaging me in idle conversation. Agav she is not Jewish.

Markz wrote on 10 Dec 2017 18:08:

It is a great point that you are bringing up.

Good luck with your situation!

Hi, first of all congratulations on your chart! I mean 777 days!! You should be posting more often just so people should see that number...
Now to your question: I'm in the same situation than you but in short distance.. I'm sitting next to 2 girls in my office.
You are not the first one thinking of that problem, the Torah did before you. Here are some guide lines that I know (I don't know which of the following are halachos & which are just gedarim but they all work): don't look at her while talking, don't call her by first name, talk to her as if she's a stranger, try to avoid talking face to face or even by phone try using email notes etc. when possible, never ask her/tell her something that's not necessary for work. You can add what you think will help you these are just a few examples.
Most importantly don't let her take over your mind, try not to think about her. Also don't be too nice to her (don't be mean but don't help her with things you would normally help a person you don't have an issue with etc.)

Since your interactions are only long distance. How about setting up an automated call recording feature and cc every email and have your wife have access to them? That should help keep the convo professional.
I currently work with alot of woman, jewish and non jewish. I find it harder with the heimishe woman, so I keep my interactions to a formal level. I don't address them by their first name, even in writing. With the non jewish woman, I need to be more direct and conversational, however I picture my wife nearby and only allow my interactions to a level that my wife would have be comfortable with it. I can still remain polite, greet them, every once in a while inquire about them, for example if someone wasn't well, to follow up how they are feeling...
Hatzlocha Rabba

What works for me is to remind myself that my brain likes to tell me a story that "she is warming up to me" like my wife says what made you think that she's interested at all she has a life. Good luck and hang in there. 

I also work together with Jewish and non Jewish female co-workers.
It isn't easy at all, but I try to stick to the guidelines of my Ruv and I also have a sefer on the topic and from time to time, I try reading it again.
Doesn't GYE have a book on this topic???
Knowing the haluches well, gives me the koach to stay strong. sometimes I'll need to be extra creative to avoid gatherings which are not business related.   
I can say that because I'm careful, with the way I talk, interact.... with the time they learned that I'm here for business only. Some will test me from time to time.

It takes time, but meanwhile, we have to continue showing that we as Jews respect women, but we also have our values mind. By doing so we should become even more respected in their eyes.

Sad to say that sometimes it's harder with Heimishe who feel to Heimish.

 Fresh start - I'm wishing you all the best,
you know yourself better then us, and stay safe. 
Happy Chanukah

doingtshuva wrote on 19 Dec 2017 01:04:

Than you very much for the post and support.

mishtaper wrote on 18 Dec 2017 01:31:

I think you may be on to something here. I like what you are saying. The same point was shared with me by a saintly lurker on the forum.

 "but I try to stick to the guidelines of my Ruv" 

What are the guidelines of your Ruv?

fresh start wrote on 19 Dec 2017 03:27:

Ouch!

Not sure if I've been called worse. Oh right, when I first joined, they pegged me right as an egotistical self-centered bastard. It didn't take long for them to figure me out.

I think once you made a clear statement that you can't be to close/friendly with them & for halacha reasons it should be much easier, you'll not be comfortable warm up etc. knowing that she knows that you're doing now something wrong & against your own will.
I saw somebody mentioned respect for women, in my opinion the most respect we can give for women is to look at them as human people not sex objects & the best gift we can give them is a husband that is not allowed to be close to other women & not even look on them. I think the Torah is fighting for women's rights more than anyone else (including the liberals that are fighting to allow women to go out naked & then they are so outraged that so many bad things are happening to them)