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90,000 Reasons
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TOPIC: 90,000 Reasons 20489 Views

Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 22:43 #298492

  • YidFromMonsey
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cordnoy wrote on 24 Nov 2016 22:18:

YidFromMonsey wrote on 24 Nov 2016 21:51:

cordnoy wrote on 24 Nov 2016 21:06:

YidFromMonsey wrote on 24 Nov 2016 20:40:
At the recent workshop Harvey went off a little into religious yiddishkiet talk, at the beginning of the following session he asked  that the  previous session's recording should not be posted on any official SA website because it's against SA principals to talk about religion.... point is that Harvey himself after being in SA over 32 years was way stronger in his yiddishkiet than many of us in the room, so SA definitely doesn't have to weaken yiddishkiet.....

I do agree though that unfortunately some people take the idea in a way that does not fit with yiddishkiet, but in my opinion many of these frum people weren't comfortable in their frumkiet all along and now they finally got the courage to speak out about it.

My feeling on this topic is as follows; a fellow SA member once told me that when he first joined the meetings he was paranoid about people seeing him enter the office building where the meeting took place because he's pretty famous and he couldn't afford people knowing about his addiction, till he thought to himself that he had no issue going into strip clubs and porn stores where he was definitely recorded on camera and that still didn't stop him, so why suddenly here when going into an SA meeting he's so paranoid that someone will see him.... my point is that this same phenomenon takes place when it comes to SA and yiddishkiet, I myself had no issue texting other women on shabbos to feed my addiction and I didn't daven if it interfered with my affairs, where was my care for yiddishkiet then? Why suddenly now in recovery yiddishkiet becomes an issue?

I'm not telling anyone to take any sides here, but one really needs to be brutally honest with oneself before deciding on this topic either way.

And regarding the comment about texting,  ask your Rav. Rav, I used to text sexy stuff to women on Shabbos; may I text my partner in recovery on Shabbos?

You're missing the point dear Cord, if yiddishkiet didn't bother me then why does yiddishkiet suddenly become an issue when it comes to recovery ? 

Sorry but that is utter stupidity.
yiddishkeit did bother me,  but my desires were stronger.

So I'm sharing my experience and what I've heard from others and you're calling it stupidity because your experience was different . ... nice reasoning
You're better than yesterday but not as good as you're gonna be tomorrow. - Harvey

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Last Edit: 24 Nov 2016 22:45 by YidFromMonsey.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 22:58 #298493

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Shlomo24 wrote on 24 Nov 2016 18:59:
There are many who get so into spirituality that they forgot about religion. And you know what? As a Jewish person, that's sad. But I completely understand them and empathize with them.

My original qualm was simply because WG spoke in general terms for others, not for himself. My main point was that I know others that wouldn't agree with what he said. That's all.

I said two main points-  "We wouldn't become Christian to recover" and that we don't take or conception to G-d from SA- and you said "speak for yourself". I WAS saying it generally- that Jews can't take heir concept of G-d from SAand that we can't become Christian to recover. Rabbi Twerski and Taub never disagreed with that- they said SA is consistent with our theology- which it may or may not be. But neither of them ever said that one can take a conception of G-d if it is not consistent with Jewish theology. If you disagree with either of these, then recovery has supplanted Judaism and I don't think by any stretch that's what GYE is for. But I may have misunderstood what you meant. Please clarify if I did. And I specifically spoke up because if that is what you believe, it is at that point that I feel the need to at least clarify to the forum that while that may be your approach, it is a Jewishly unacceptable one and let others not follow. 

Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 23:04 #298494

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Mr Monsey yid,
 my quote button and texting is not working, so I will address your point about your experience and what you heard from others.

Up until now we were discussing the general attitude that if one didn't care about religion in his filth, why should he care in recovery?
That is stupid thinking.
I don't recall before the last post that you said that was your thinking or that you heard from others. If I missed it or misunderstood, my apologies.
I obviously do not think the logic is sound, but if that was your experience, I will not deny it.
To repeat, for the general populace, to think like that, I think is completely illogical and wrong, and if they want to entertain it, they should speak to a Rav.
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Last Edit: 24 Nov 2016 23:05 by cordnoy.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 23:13 #298495

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Shlomo, I am not sure as to which point of mine your question was addressing, but regarding my points about some of the sa meetings on the east coast, you and your sponsor are a prime example.
 additionally, I have first hand knowledge from many fellows who attended groups there, especially in Brooklyn and in Lakewood that the sentiment is  that recovery trumps frumkeit.

I will not repeat in every post of mine that this does not hold true for every group, and not even for those where the majority are orthodox Jews, and even where it does apply, it might not effect every person, but I am putting it out there.

I also will not repeat in every post about this topic that for some people, they still should go to sa, regardless of this downfall, but they should be forewarned and they should probably be in touch with a competent rabbi throughout the process.
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Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 23:24 #298496

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Yeah

but shlomo doesn't go to SA
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Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 23:26 #298497

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YYfm,

I'd like to apologize again, as I reread what you wrote.
You were in one post speaking about yourself.
Yes, you can decide for yourself that I'm not gonna care about religion in my recovery, for I didn't care about it in my sextology, but that's not a ruling for others.

I had similar sentiments regarding meetings in a church. While I did ask a rabbi and I researched the issue, and it was in the basement (and therefore the ruling was for me that I could go),  my passion for recovery played a role in attending, just as my passion for other stuff in the past drove me to buildings that should not be frequented.
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My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 24 Nov 2016 23:42 #298498

  • YidFromMonsey
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cordnoy wrote on 24 Nov 2016 23:26:
YYfm,

I'd like to apologize again, as I reread what you wrote.
You were in one post speaking about yourself.
Yes, you can decide for yourself that I'm not gonna care about religion in my recovery, for I didn't care about it in my sextology, but that's not a ruling for others.

I had similar sentiments regarding meetings in a church. While I did ask a rabbi and I researched the issue, and it was in the basement (and therefore the ruling was for me that I could go),  my passion for recovery played a role in attending, just as my passion for other stuff in the past drove me to buildings that should not be frequented.

Thanks Cord,

I respect you for being man enough to stand up and say it out loud
You're better than yesterday but not as good as you're gonna be tomorrow. - Harvey

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Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 14:44 #298524

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cordnoy wrote on 24 Nov 2016 23:13:
the sentiment is  that recovery trumps frumkeit.

I can't escape Trump anywhere 

Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 15:18 #298529

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Yidden never had in their language a  expression like, your G-od my G-od.
​The whole discussion here is plain strange and scary.

I hope no one will take my words as a personal offense, that's not my intentions.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 15:36 #298531

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Watson wrote on 25 Nov 2016 14:44:

cordnoy wrote on 24 Nov 2016 23:13:
the sentiment is  that recovery trumps frumkeit.


I can't escape Trump anywhere 

yes you can!

leicester station or piccadilly circus.....with all that purple hair and anchor tattoos, trump will not be recognized at all.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
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Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

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Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 15:47 #298538

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chocolate milkshake!?
that is heaven on this world.
And triggerin'!
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

https://guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/210029-Tryin
:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
My job: Punchin' bag of GYE - "NeshamaInCharge"
Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 16:08 #298539

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Eyeglasses wrote on 25 Nov 2016 15:18:
Yidden never had in their language a  expression like, your G-od my G-od.
​The whole discussion here is plain strange and scary.

I hope no one will take my words as a personal offense, that's not my intentions.

Can you elaborate?
 we say: אלקי נשמה שננת בי
מודה אני לפניך ה' אלקי
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads: Mikvah Night - Page 1Page 2Page 3Last Page

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Quote from the chevra: "Is Cordnoy truly a Treasure Island pirate from the Southern Seas?"

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 16:19 #298540

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The phrase 'your Go-d/my Go-d' sound like 'your Getshka my Getshka', my god is like this and yours like that.

Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 16:25 #298542

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Some things were stolen from us by other religions 

One of them is the personal connection to 'My G-D'

Anyone that doesn't understand that concept needs to go back to school

Or open the siddur or Tehillim or White book

What prayer book do you use?
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Re: 90,000 Reasons 25 Nov 2016 21:46 #298560

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It says אלקי אברהם אלוקי יצחק אלקי יעקב. It doesn't say them collectively.
If you're an LGBTQ or LGBTQ-questioning person and looking for someone who can understand you, feel free to reach out. I promise no judgement and to try and listen the best I can. 

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