Dov wrote on 15 Feb 2017 18:58:


Hi Dov,

It would be my pleasure; I just had a long post and somehow it got erased so I'll do it again.
Obviously, for many addicts there is an issue of tremendously low self-esteem and shame because of their problem. They feel broken, and they feel that there is something wrong with them that they struggle with this problem. Now, when you tell them that they just have to join 12 steps if they could admit powerlessness, what happens is that they perceive that as another attack on their ego. You mean I have this problem, and I can't control it? Now they know they can't control it, but when you tell them that they are powerless it increases their shame because now they feel that they are even more broken.

But then you tell them no don't worry about it, because God can take the problem away from you. But the thing is that when they hear that they think that that is impossible, because how can the same God who wanted to smite them for masturbating take away the problem and why would he even want to? Because they have so much religious shame associated with what they've done in the past, I don't even feel worthy to ask God to take it away or to believe that he would do it.

(On a similar note, it is worth checking out the Wikipedia entry for free will and looking at at the work of Roy Baumeister and the work he did in showing how much worse people's behavior is when they feel that they are not controlling their choices.)

Now perhaps you'll say that they are misunderstanding powerlessness, as you've explained many times on this website. That may all be true, but for where they are and amount of shame that they have, starting 12 steps and admitting their peril this is way too much of an attack on their ego.

Now obviously, the people who succeed with 12 steps were able to overcome it either because they understood it differently or for them, it was a relief. Many people give the example of addiction being like diabetes – you just have to deal with it and it's not something you should be ashamed of. But I thought you were interesting thing that I've seen amongst a lot of people and I have heard from a number of therapists-for some people, hearing they have diabetes which explains some elements of theirs is a relief, while for other people it's shameful. I'll just give a personal example – lately I've been very tired and so I went to the doctor and he told me that I might have a mild sleep issue. It's funny how much more tired and bogged down I felt after he told me that. It's not like I didn't know how tired I was, but now it's like he sort of labeled me. Why should that matter and why should I be ashamed of that? The answer is a long one but the point is that that's what happens to a lot of people.

This is how I understand it from a lot of literature that I read, and also from a lot of people whom I've spoken to who didn't succeed.

I'd venture that many people would probably be able to change that attitude after they spent some time in therapy and worked on their own self, in which case they might not view it as such a threat. I know that when I started going to therapy there was no way I was going to go to 12 steps, but after some time in therapy and learning to accept myself a little more I was like heck yeah, let's give it a try.

bb0212 wrote on 22 Feb 2017 06:20:

Back in the 80s there was a businessman furiously typing on his typewriter, drowning in work.

Along comes a salesman to try to sell him the latest thing - a personal computer.

Said the businessman "I can't talk to you now, can't you see how much paperwork I have to get through!"

Re: GYE Can Close Down (don't tell Guard)
Start playing `Tetris` to get rid of craving
Last Updated: Sunday, August 16, 2015 - 21:09

Washington DC: Want to get rid of cravings for drugs, food...? Well it's time to start playing Tetris as a new study reveals that playing the puzzle game can weaken your desire.
Jackie Andrade of the Plymouth University said that playing Tetris decreased craving strength for drugs, food, and other activities from 70 percent to 56 percent.
Andrade said that playing a visually interesting game, like Tetris, occupied the mental processes that support desires, adding that it was hard to imagine something vividly and play Tetris at the same time.
In the study, 31 undergraduates, aged 18-27, were prompted seven times a day via text message to report on any cravings they were feeling.
Fifteen members of the group were required to play Tetris on an iPod for three minutes, before reporting their craving levels. Craving was recorded in 30 percent of the occasions, most commonly for food and non-alcoholic drinks, which were reported on nearly two-thirds of those occasions.
The study found that twenty-one percent of cravings were for substances categorised as drugs, including coffee, cigarettes, wine and beer, and 16 percent were for miscellaneous activities such as sleeping, playing videogames, socialising with friends, and sexual intercourse. Food cravings tended to be slightly weaker than those in the other categories.
Andrade said that as a support tool, Tetris could help people manage their cravings in their daily lives and over extended time periods.
The study is published in the journal Addictive Behaviors.
ANI
First Published: Sunday, August 16, 2015 - 21:09
from zeenews.india.com

Tehillim, kedusha, and even the 12 steps with meetings, sponsors, written stepwork, and regular phone calls whenever in trouble, etc - none of them work at all if we still do not really need to stop.

See, right after we masturbate, everybody wishes they'd stop! So us frum guys suffer so much, struggle so hard, and fight tooth-and-nail (all l'Shem Shomayim, of course). But we just don't feel right, do we?

There is only one surefire way we all know to bring our dirty, yucky, painful selves close to Hashem - really honestly close:

masturbate again!

Within a minute or so we find that we are dropped cold out of lust like a rock. Brought to our humble, reeling, holy senses again like the worst cold shower in the world. It's horrible five minutes later. We become frantic to finally fly right, despondent, ready to reach out like never before..."I'll do anything to quit and not fall the next time!" See? We are brought back to our senses! We wanted nudes five minutes ago - and now, all we really want is sweet tahara! Because we masturbated and 'got it over already'.

It works every time. It's the nuclear reset button, isn't it?

After our painfully intense 'zera levatola', life and avodas Hashem suddenly and painfully makes sense again. Sure we are farther away - but at least we are in the game again! ..or so we think. The sex obsession is blown out of us, gone. Holiness is again in view, at least. Menucha...

...for about a day (maybe)

Maybe I became willing to start recovery because I got tired of reset buttons, that's all? While we are flaming addicts, there eventually comes a point at which we realize that in order for us to live successfully we do not really need to give in and end the game by masturbating (again) so that we return to our holy senses. This is a total shock to a frum porn and sex addict.

We always saw our lusting, fantasy, and sex-with-self as the opposite of our avodas Hashem...and surely, the lusting and the fantasy always are. But not so the zera levatola! So often we held our breath, counting the days till....till it built up to a crescendo of crushing tension. Then we used the good old nuclear reset button - ending the game. We just couldn't take it any more. How long can you hold your breath? Eventually, everyone who is holding their breath needs to come up for air! So we fall, R"l. "It's Game Over, I guess," the poor guy says.

But it's not really ending the game at all! It's just starting a new game!

Anybody here who has ever been addicted to computer games knows exactly what I mean, here, by "GAME OVER" just being a reset button. Think it over.

Hatzlocha using this.

(Hatzlocha using anything! )

BUUUUMP!

I'd like this thread to be a thread that shares with people some of the mistakes that they made on their journey to recovery. While obviously some people's challenges are their own only, what I've seen on the threads is that many of us share challenges and have similar ways of thinking that get us in trouble. Please feel free to post mistakes that you've learned to avoid. I'll start with an example or two, but it's an open thread.

Workingguy wrote:

Bump 

If you're bumping this powerful thread, I'd put one thought down.
It's not a new thought; it's been said many times before. But I like to think about it like this:

If you're thinking about the all reasons you're motivated to get clean and why you want to stop, but you're not thinking about all the reasons why you're motivated NOT to be clean and why you want to continue, you should think about changing your thinking.

chaimoigen wrote on 25 Oct 2023 12:59:

Personally, I think that would be way too much thinkin'.