I couldn't agree with you guys more. Loopholes is the hallmark of this. I even invented a verb called "loopholing" (you can use it without quoting me )

I'd say that you have to be able to notice when you're using "small" loopholes and be honest enough with yourself to stop. Easier said than done.

And thank you everyone for the positive feedback about this thread, and keep posting your thoughts. 

Workingguy wrote on Unknown:

"THATS FINE FOR EVERYONE ELSE, BUT MY PROBLEM IS DIFFERENT"

Shlomo24 Wrote
"i feel that ssa is different then sa in terms of aacting out because ssa is really non-sexual needs that become sexualized"

.
Dr Watson replied

"That's exactly what my addiction is. all my emotions have become sexualised. I'm stressed, what do I need? Sex. I'm tired, what should I do? Sex. I'm angry, lonely, frustrated, afraid - act out. Yeah that's the only thing that's ever helped me deal with a problem! Porn and masturbation is not my real problem. The ordinary stresses and difficulties of life are the problem and acting out became my way of handling those situations. So any attempt to deal with just the acting out is hopeless. I need a two-pronged program, to stop acting out and then to deal with life in a more constructive way. Almost everyone who starts the program believes they are somehow different. Either the more common "I'm not as sick as these people!" Or the fantastic "I'm so much worse the program won't even help me." But the acting out is not the real problem. It's how to deal with life, that's what the program is about. I once spoke to an SA friend for a long while about the program but everything that was said somehow came back to a version of "that's fine for everyone else but my problem is different." He has given up with SA and has gone back to acting out in a big way. Seeing differences can be very dangerous. Look instead for the similarities and you can learn something from everyone. Mikol melamday hiskalti.

CC! A very brave statement to make on a website that is likely to have at least a few "Tikun-Klali (TK) experts"! You know, like the people who are sincerely sure they are 'marriage experts' because they have been married many times... , there are some very frum and very sincere staunch TK experts...'experts' because they say it practically every week after they masturbate.

Alright, enough cynicism out of me...blah, blah, blah...

But really you are saying simple seichel. Everyone knows that a mitzvah can be done with very poor timing and therefore not actually be the ratzon Hashem at that time - or for that person. Doing a mayseh chessed can lead to divorce - if the person's chessed is repeatedly done when they should be with their wife or family. I personally know of misapplication of beautiful mitzvos and maisim tovim - that cause bitterness and destruction in real life. RMCh"L writes in his first chapter Nekiyus (I think) that it is important to see what bad repercussions may be resulting from the good deeds he is doing. Nu, maybe he is referring to a high madreigah there, but the laws of nature and relationships can be pretty merciless sometimes, and good intentions in the doer's mind do not actually counterbalance the pain in the heart of the affected person. Hashem yatzileinu mishgiyos!

Same with Mikvah (which I am a big proponent of, in general). As CC writes, going to the mikvah can be like throwing down the gauntlet at the YH and a challenge for 'the next time'. That would be a terrible idea, and tantamount to looking at a dirty magazine. It all depends on the heart of the doer, here.

It reminds me of what I read the Chozeh would say: "I prefer the rosho who knows he is a rosho, to the tzaddik who knows he is a tzaddik."

I have joined the forum recently and have been getting a tremendous amount of chizzuk out of it, thank you! I am holding at day 15 of 90 and staying strong.

I decided to finally ask for help on the forum because I realized I can't do this by myself. I am extremely committed to yiddishkayt in every other area, but my yetzer is having the best of me with the lamdus below. I hope that someone here is learned enough to be able to give a solid answer to my yetzer's questions with facts and give me the answers I need to silence it once and for all.

Despite all the reasons given in seforim and on GYE (both kabboloh reasons as well as the negativity about it in the Gemarrah), I constantly question myself whether SZ"L is a real aveyrah and that is the main cause of my stumbling.

With Shabbos for example, I see a direct line of reasoning: the lav is clearly and distinctively mentioned in the chumash >> mishna >> gemarrah >> halacha.

I fail to see that same line of reasoning with MZ"L. It seems to me that the Onen's principal aveyra in the Chumash was not MZ"L, but rather his avoidance of having children. MZ"L is not mentioned in the Mishna at all. In the Gemarrah it is mentioned as a very negative activity to avoid at all costs, but it is not clear at all whether this is an issur based on halacha Moshe miSinai or some lav based on medical advice of the time (which we don't usually follow).

Then, seemingly out of nowhere, you have the Rishonim, Shulchan Aruch, the poskim and Kabbalah come and make this the worst aveyrah possible. My yetzer keeps on telling me that this is based on Kabolloh only and, as such, is a chumra (or a medrega of sorts). Where is the basis for the jump from no real lav in chumash, mishna, gemarrah to MZ"L being the worst of the worst in Halacha sefarim?

Moreover, only select few follow Kabboloh to the dot. Disregarding tumah and Kabboloh reasons which are very lofty, what is the real halachic issur and what is the issur based on?

Until I know the answer, I battle my yetzer in the following 2 stages:

1) Is this a real issur?
2) Trying to overcome the animalistic urge.

I really want to fight him on stage 2, but 98% of the time, I don't even get to stage 2. Hope that having this answer will help me get there and have that battle.

Geshmock,

This is what I did.

The very second you get an urge to look at something, CLAP!

Clap your hands together. If the urge is still there, clap again. Harder.

Still there? Clap again. Still there? Clap!

Eventually, one of three things will happen:

The urge will pass. You win!

Someone will come into the room and say "What is all that noise? Are you okay?"
You will makeup some silly excuse for all that clapping, and you will be too embarrassed to continue sitting at the computer. You win!

Or, your hands will hurt so much from all that clapping, that you won't be able to use them for the aveirah..... .....and you win!

I'm up to 14 days, and with this technique, I know I'll get to 90.

By the way, after the first few days, you won't feel that overwhelming urge to go look, as often as you do now. It will still be there, but it will be less intense and less often.

Also - go to a mikvah, preferably a COLD one. You can walk in slowly if you want to, but eventually force yourself to toivel completely into the cold mikvah. A cold mikvah has vast spiritual benefits, specifically related to this aveirah, that are too complex to explain in this forum. (Ask any mekubal, he'll tell you the same)

Try to stay under the water for a few seconds , making sure that no part of your body is touching the floor or walls.

Get yourself to a mikvah as often as possible, but at the very least every erev shabbos and yom tov. Natural lakes as well as the ocean are also kosher mikvaos.

You can do it! I believe in you!

Seeking Support, Thank you for those wise words from your Rebbe. Sounds like he knows a thing or two about the teenage struggle. And you sound very mature to listen, quote, and heed his advice. Kol hakavod!!

In terms of the filter discussion, my problem has always been looking for comfort when in pain and my filter is not and will not do the trick. I contacted WebProtectMe and K9 to tell them my findings, but as much as they say they want to help...

Please offer suggestions for me and for the Klal as I have been struggling greatly, lately. 

Thanks,
Neiro

rashkebehag wrote:



I'm 52 and not afraid to say it. I'm mature, I'm married, but if I ever start to lose my sense of humor and stop joking when it's still appropriate, please bury me. And sometimes the mood needs a little lightening up, just to stay human