This is gonna be long, and probably rambly, and I'm not looking for advice, but if you relate or have a similar experience I wanna hear, and that will help more than any advice anyway.

I've shared some other posts, my experience with addiction is kinda complicated. I went to groups for a while, therapy, etc., it's not so relevant to elaborate here.

So I've been out of the groups for like a year. I'm working with a therapist that says he can get a person through an addiction (he's well respected, and a student of a well respected therapist as well, who claims the same thing). They disagree with the idea that a person is an addict for life. But with this therapy, the fact is I haven't seen my behavior change (although I have noticed things changing in my thinking, which is very nice). Obviously there can be exceptions to any method, therapy and groups included.

So I was frustrated, I felt like I couldn't get past this, no matter what I would do. Now, I'm a religious person. And I like that about myself. And it's important to me to pursue a method that's true. Like, I'm not just religious in practice, I'm into thinking about it, making sure what I'm doing in life makes sense. For instance, if you guaranteed me, 100%, that I would stop mastrubating and watching porn if I only accepted JC into my heart, I wouldn't do it. I think most people here would be with that.

So I know a certain Rav. He's knowledgeable, authentic, says "I don't know" when he doesn't know, and has experience working with addicts, really with all types of people. I have a very strong draw to him, I feel like he has answers, or he can tell me where to go and help me through it. He also knows me very well. I trust him very much, and I'm happy about that. It's weird, as I'm typing this, I almost feel like I'm apologizing for going to a Rav as opposed to the groups, what a weird feeling. So I went to him, and I asked just straight up, how does the Torah see addiction, recovery, etc. His answer was basically that the 12-step ideas are very helpful and basically in line. A person that has created a part of himself that traps him needs to create a new part of himself, based on connection with something greater than himself. You do that by interacting with G-d, etc. He made a point of saying that any group needs tweaking, not everything said in the group is gonna be true to Judaism, not everything is going to work for everyone, and it's essentially my job, if I decide to go back, to be able to take what is true and helpful and leave the rest.

So that's where we left it, he didn't give me so much practical advice because we just haven't got there yet. In our next meeting, I hope to get some straight out decisions made, do I continue therapy, groups, both, neither? Anything in particular I should do with the rest of my day (I've got a lot of free time right now), anything to avoid? what to learn? how to daven? what to think? chocolate or vanilla, spearmint or peppermint, honestly anything.

So that's where I'm at. We haven't been able to meet since that initial meeting, which was about 3 weeks ago.

And that's why I'm frustrated, and feel alone. I feel right now like I'm trying to do something good, something I should. I'm legitimately going to a person who I trust, who, as far as I am concerned, represents G-d's will for me. I am totally submitting myself here, being open to whatever suggestions he's going to make, and I'm okay with that. Honestly, if he tells me to move to alaska and feed seals for a year, cuz that'll help me get through this, I would. I have a job for a few hours a day, my schedule is open aside from that. I will 100% quit it all if he tells me I need that much time everyday. I'm being open-minded, more than I ever have been. I'm desperate, I'm way below any other rock bottom, and I'm begging for help, and I've convinced this is the way G-d wants me to get it.

The feelings I'm having right now though (and this is kinda the point of the post), it's like, why isn't G-d letting me meet with him again? I try everyday and he just hasn't had the time (which is legit, he's very busy). Does G-d want me to win here? Is he even paying attention? I know that's horrible but that's what's going through my head and heart. I feel alone as anything -- like I failed at the groups, failed at therapy, everyone else is doing good things with their lives and I'm stuck. I look around and see everyone accomplishing (I know that's a skewed perspective but it's what I have at the moment). Everyone else is dating, or married, and I'm not, and older than them. Everyone else has a business, or is a professional, or an awesome hobby, or whatever. The voices of comparison in my head are so loud.

Those are the feelings.

Also I'm in Jerusalem and it would be cool to meet some local people to relate to.

Thanks for reading,
Dan

Dan - You're the man

I just wanted to share one thing from my experience
There are alot of therapists out there in the world that are useless.

I cannot disclose my personal situation, but I almost got really messed up by a so called 'therapist'

Furthermore, there's no one fix for everyone. Any therapist that claims otherwise, needs to see a therapist

Hi Dan.

feel your pain. What I felt through out the time I was working on recovery that my feelings were very high. The fact that I was challenging my real problems made me more aware about myself, and all kinds of feelings that i never detected until now has came up to my horizon. I am now working on many issues, and going to therapy for all this, because i cant live with these issues anymore. They are in my way of leading a healthy productive life.

Keep it strong, bezras hashem you will find the right way that works for you.

hatzlacha

Dan, There are many people out there with a similar experience. I hope some will comment here. I just wanted to say I have you on my thoughts, and I wanted to help keep your thread bumped up so others can see it

Best wishes.

"About this time, I was beginning to look for a way out
again; my ability to function and cope was deteriorating. Few
realize what a terrible toll this thing takes on a person. But
none of the professionals I went to for help caught on to the
real problem. And I still had no idea what the real problem
was. The problem was always "out there"-wife, children,
other people, the boss, the job, institutions, religious
17
hypocrisy. After the divorce I had gone to a psychoanalyst,
only to be reassured that my new career with prostitutes was
merely relieving a natural urge. Boy, did I want to hear that!
Later I would try other psychiatrists and group therapies. I
never heard there might be such a thing as compulsive sex,
much less that it could be addictive, progressive, and
destructive. Later, when I remarried, one psychiatrist insisted
I simply wasn't getting enough at home. But my wife and I
were compatible sexually, and I got as much as I went after,
and more.
Free at Last?
What insights I did get into my motivations only seemed to
add to the curse, much as did my religious knowledge and
belief. Knowledge was not power-even right knowledge!
What I needed was not more knowledge about my psychology
or God, but power to stop what I was powerless over and
obey the little light I already had. I had stopped thousands of
times; almost every time was the "last time." Staying stopped
was my problem, and I made countless vain attempts at that:
churches, prayer, fasting, therapy, tranquilizing drugs, and
then remarriage, a new home, and a new job. What I really
needed, I thought, was the right woman, the right job, and the
right environment in which to live and work.
In the new marriage I got all three. And on my wedding
day I burned all my girlie magazines and movies in one grand
show of willpower and high resolve. But it was like cutting
off part of me, so dear were those favorite goddesses of mine.
Within days after the wedding I was back to masturbation,
and within months I was back on the streets, helplessly
sinning against the new light of love, kindness, plenty, and
peaceful surroundings. I must have sensed something was
drastically wrong with me, but if I did, it didn't do any good.
And the wives never guessed the darkest secret locked in their
18
husband's heart. Lust was his one and only wife, mistress,
goddess, and slave master, and he was chained for life. My
wives had never stood a chance!
I had decided to quit my job of ten years, thinking that if
only I could do what I really wanted-write-all would be well
with me. So we sold our home, and I got away from it all. I
realized later that one reason I had quit my job was to avoid
having an affair with a woman at work. It was another gallant
and courageous attempt to do it on my own. Quitting the job
was scary, but I felt great; it would be a new beginning. Free
at last from all those temptations at work and free from the rat
race, I could hide away in my niche full of books and become
something new and better and different.
Despair
But that didn't work either. Stealing away, I'd race into the big
city, score a connection, and return undetected. I just couldn't
believe it; I had given it my best shot. I was doing what I
wanted to do in an ideal situation, surrounded by love and
nurturing, and yet I kept on going downhill! (If these good
wives only knew how they were nurturing and supporting the
sickness!) I began to see that all those great feelings of release
and freedom that had accompanied the progression of the
malady had been delusions. I had no idea that I was deluding
myself, creating my own insanity. One stage at a time, I had
been seducing and victimizing myself into a great lie: The
Wages of Lust Is Life. I had never come to terms with the true
nature of my problem: The wages of lust is death.
I progressed in the lie until finally, even the thought of
masturbation or merely looking at a girlie magazine cover in
the liquor store or supermarket ignited the compulsion, and I
would have to go out and score my "drug"-find a prostitute.
As this pattern of periodic despair worsened relentlessly, I
19
finally concluded I had to be possessed with demons and
submitted to the rite of exorcism. I thought I was willing to go
to any lengths to stop the insanity.
Well, exorcism didn't work either. I even contemplated
a drastic variation on the motorcycle cop routine. (Yes, I was
getting that desperate!) There was nothing left for me to try;
there was nowhere else to go and still be in charge, managing
my will and life. I see now that in all my religious striving
and psychotherapy I was waiting for the miracle to happen
first, that I should somehow be zapped or "fixed," unable
ever to fall or be tempted again. I thought that if a person just
had the right religious belief, he was automatically "a new
creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are
become new." That all thought of lust would be removed,
much as a tumor would be excised by a surgeon. The
"religious solution" was one of the subtlest strategies in my
arsenal of denial.
I didn't realize that the essence of being human is to have
free choice. God doesn't want to remove from me the
possibility of falling; he wants me to have the freedom to
choose not to fall. I'd been praying self-righteously all along,
"Please God, take it away!" not realizing my inner heart was
piteously whining, ". . . so I won't have to give it up." There
was belief in God without surrender. That belief availed
nothing! I had never died to lust." SA White Book

Dan

I went to a counsellor/therapist for almost three years.
Once a week.

It helped with some life issues, but honestly, it never got to the core of the matter.
I think the therapist simply could not empathise with my inner feelings.

So I used to get stressed when I could not see the therapist, because letting some steam off my chest in their presence would help, but only for a short while.

Two days after the session I could get depressed again and then seek relief in porn.

I cannot know G-Ds thoughts, but I reckon the message is to not seek the answer in only one other person, to not rely on them because they can let you down.
The message is to seek group support, and look within yourself to find the answer, of course using knowledge gained from this website.

I think that HALT is very useful as a warning sign of a likelehood to look at porn...Hungry, Angry (Resentful of things seemingly not going one's way), Lonely, Tired.

You also have an amazing bracha in your life, being able to live in Yerushalayim!
If it is possible, I hope that a walk around that great holy city can help calm you at times.

I hear you. Keep trying. Be patient. It is not easy.

Thanks for all the comments everyone, it's very helpful to hear that others have had the same types of feelings. It seems obviously false, but it can get to feel like I'm the only one going through this.

I wish everyone the very best, please keep commenting if it's helpful to you.

dantheman2885 wrote:


Forgive me, but what seems false? That they had the feeling? I don't always get these things... (I'm being dead serious).

I know for me that when I tried to make a connection with a Rav that i thought would really help, it always was a process. It's like the y"h was pushing me back. But god loves me and i know that whatever I am going through is the best for me, the world is tailor made for me that I should have the best possible experience when I am on it. I would suggest being pushy with the Rav. I was once really pushy with a Rav that is known for having no time and he called me up and told me he really appreciates my perseverance. Maybe this helps.

thanks for your post -- what i meant was that the feeling that i'm having sometimes that i'm the only one going through this is obviously not true, but very powerful.

yea i'm being pushy, you definitely have to be

thank you for clearing that up, i thought you were saying that the fact that other ppl deal with what u go through is false, i am glad that isn't what you meant