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I had a Fall. Please help.

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TOPIC: I had a Fall. Please help. 5256 Views

Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 14 Oct 2015 02:13 #265874

LearningNoahide OFFLINE Junior Boarder Posts: 21 Karma: 1	But again markz, think you are so correct about 90 days being the only tool. I guess it is not so much a tool, anyone can count. It is more a measurement of how well I am using other tools. It is so true that the 90 days on their own mean nothing. Sm

Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 14 Oct 2015 02:13 #265875

LearningNoahide OFFLINE Junior Boarder Posts: 21 Karma: 1	But again markz, I think you are so correct about 90 days being the only tool. I guess it is not so much a tool, anyone can count. It is more a measurement of how well I am using other tools. It is so true that the 90 days on their own mean nothing. Sm

Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 14 Oct 2015 03:16 #265880

eslaasos
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markz wrote:

eslaasos wrote:

markz wrote:

My question is - is that the only tool you used?

Absolutely not the only tool - but it was still a help, not a hindrance.

My point was using it alone

Will someone that got to 90 days with no tool other than the 90 day chart please come forward and say hi

Sorry, I didn't understand that to be your point. You wrote:

Until you reach 90 days dump the chart, and only update periodically.
For today we will use other tools (check my signature)

This gave me the impression you were advocating to drop the 90 day even if it's being used together with other tools.

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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 14 Oct 2015 03:39 #265882

Markz
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I'm not sure.

According to my knowledge ameratzus, 90 days could be an incentive tool, but it's a goal not a plan at all as BigMoish said HERE. I'd be quite sure I can find more מקורות.

Let me ask you cos I think you like pointed questions, and I'll have to rely on your opinion cos all other truckers are~~have been for 24hr~~ sleeping.

Where would you be today regarding sobriety if you had never used the chart?
I'm not asking how many days you'd have been clean? People can be chained to be clean.

I'm asking internal cleanliness, and true lust relief. How much does the chart provide towards that?
After 90 days possibly as the handbook mentions scientific studies. But before 90 days??

The point I was making and I'll say in different words is
"We all want to pass 90 days, but the primary tools to arrive there is not via the 90 day chart"

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Last Edit: 14 Oct 2015 04:23 by Markz.

Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 14 Oct 2015 12:16 #265895

eslaasos Current streak: 16 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 954 Karma: 81	Good point. I guess we are using different terms. I agree that typically the 90 day chart is a goal, not a plan. However it can also be a useful motivational tool, as it was for me. Would I have managed without it? I hope so, but probably only with the help of other tools. Bottom line, I still wouldn't write it off, but the distinctions you raised are very relevant. Thank you.
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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 12:58 #266136

Markz NOW ONLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 8259 Karma: 428	Ok Eslaasos so I'll take it that our assumption about 90 days is correct, as no one beeped
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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 12:59 #266138

Markz NOW ONLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 8259 Karma: 428	Of course
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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 14:30 #266146

eslaasos Current streak: 16 days OFFLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 954 Karma: 81	markz wrote: Ok Eslaasos so I'll take it that our assumption about 90 days is correct, as no one beeped Which assumption?
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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 14:31 #266147

eslaasos
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markz wrote:

G-d told Noah to build a teiva - resembling a house - Not a ship.
Why?

G-d told him to build it before revealing about the pending flood. First he said 'make it', later he said 'va'ani...'.
Would the opposite sequence not have made more sense?

I heard an interesting answer
Gd was saying to Noah
"The world is corrupted, run and build yourself a house to protect yourself from all that"
Later G-d adds that, fyi this house will also serve as a ship to save from a flood, as a reward for trying to distance yourself from the lustful world around you

What's the lesson?
Go get yourself a truck, protect yourself (from yourself) take your next difficult step to sobriety, then G-d will help your truck navigate even through dangerous floods

Beautiful! This is a classic I will hold on to.

TYVM

BTW, do you know who says it, so if I want to say it bshem omro, I don't have to say markz from GYE

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Last Edit: 16 Oct 2015 14:32 by eslaasos.

Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 14:49 #266150

serenity
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To me 90 days is a milestone and a time to recognize progress and analyze what has been working and what hasn't. It's a time to recommit. I consider day 91 to be day 1 of recovery. So it's a beginning, not an ending.

Seems like people wait til they fall to look at what they are doing wrong. Wouldn't it be better to use milestones of success to see what you are doing right and to start doing more?!

Much Hatzlacha!

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Re: I had a Fall. Please help. 16 Oct 2015 15:52 #266156

Markz NOW ONLINE Platinum Boarder Posts: 8259 Karma: 428	Serenity 100% correct. After 90 days! My point was until then "We all want to pass 90 days, but the primary tools to arrive there is not via the 90 day chart"
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