Yes that last startegy does make it harder when my wife is assur I agree. Thats why its in the mix but its not my mutually exclusive startegy. And this will sound really silly but halevia i should start with staying clean when my wife is muter. (which is today!) And again this is my own personal diary. I don't know if it is or isn't for anyoneelse.

I am not sure what musar seder we are doing yet and when.

May I suggest something for your list.

Every time you have a thought or situation which presents difficulty, have a person with whom you discuss it and you must come up with something, an idea or a plan etc, that would be helpful to prevent a fall in light of the issue at hand.

Still going strong. Last nite I knew my wife was up later than usual so I rushed home from shul so that I can statsify my lust in an unselfsih and cariing manner. (sorry if that sound slike an oxymoron!)

The unselfish caring manner was the rushing home so that my wife wouldn't have to wait up for me. (Normally even rushing home doesn't help because she goes to sleep very early due to the kids. So automatcilly she is waiting up for me if she wants to have intermatrail relations, But last night if I rushed home I wouldn't make my wife wiat up at all.)

Yes that last prargraph was added for clarity


3 Days free so far

You sound to me like a drunk

A drunk alcoholic that can't live without his 20 cans a day.

How are the roads safe with you around?

you have it figured all out

Every time you need a drink you go into a police station and hand in your keys. Then out comes the barrel

Cool (let me know where you hang out - I may want to join you on occasion - every day is another occasion - another yartzeit of another Rebbe. We'll drink l'iliy his nushume)

Get a life
(when you find one let me know - I need one too)

waydown wrote:


I love your honesty in calling it as it is - lust, and telling it as it is - rushing home etc. I think you should continue being honest with yourself. That way you will eventually, in sober moments, be able to consider how you are and how your ways are serving you and how you would like to be.

Markz

I beg to differ. I am not at all a drunkard. Rather I am well thought out. Prior to joining GYE I was rushing home to flirt with girls on-line. Then I would masterbate numerous times during the night. And if on nites with my wife I would still masterbate once more during the night. Now its rechanelled towards only my wife. So obvioulsy its not every night that we have relationships but on the nights that we don't have it I can stay sober because I now there is a muter way.

And in case you got me wrong, I didn't rush home form shul because that extra half hour was vital to my lust. Rather I rushed home because I am a considerate person. When I am aware of the fact the someone is waiting up for me I try to hurry so they wait less. I didn't rush because I needed my fix within 20 minutes

9494 wrote:



I was going to reply to Waydown on this privately, but I think there is an opportunity for Waydown to exercise a lesson in sobriety here and maybe others can benefit from it.

We don't have to answer someone with an explanation, disagreement or opinion every time they disagree with us or say something that may make us emotional. We can just say "thank you" and move on. That is a huge exercise in control and it very similar to the control we need to exercise with lust. Of course it's really surrender not control. It's also a huge check to our ego. In my personal experience, not responding to people every time I'm challenged has been a huge help in not acting out with lust.

Waydown, if you just respond to me and to 94 with a Thank you, it will go a long way to your sobriety. And even if my analysis is wrong it will still benefit you, just by your sheer willingness to take a suggestion for sobriety.

Hatzlacha!

4 Days free!!

Ouch, that's pretty harsh (referring to the delusional post).

But seriously waydown, do you rush to the same extent every time someone is waiting for you, or at least every time your wife is waiting for you?
If you do you're definitely a better person than me which isn't saying much. However considering that m** is the classic indulgence of a selfish pleasure, and you have been indulging to an extreme for a while (just based on your posts here), even if you were originally a caring selfless guy which you quite possibly were, you have been strengthening the selfish muscle for a while so it's logical to assume you are firstly less selfless, and secondly less able to recognize it.

"We are our own worst observer" - quote from my therapist. (One day it might even make it to a T-shirt, magnet or bumper sticker.)
I wouldn't say that makes you delusional, which per dictionary.com is defined as -
Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness.

I don't beg to speak for others. I have learned on GYE that I am in no position to say what others hsould or shouldn't do and what right or wrong. I will only say what works for me.

Now the way I see it there are two main approaches. 1) surrender, rid oneslef of lust, 12 steps etc.. 2) Control lust via a mix of fighting, strategizing, tamming and believing that if I fight my tavaya the best I can hashem will do the best.

I perosnally am going with the second approach. It may be silly and I may be the only one who it helps. But when I am on the ball it works for me. Now part of that second approach is how to avoid letting the beast labeled lust out of its cage running loose and wild. Thats primary done via making a cheshbon what entices me and how to avoid those enticments. The other part of it is how can I channel it in muter way. So if I can truely only lust for my wife and realize that its reserved for her it helps. She also appreciates and enjoys the fact that I think she is georgoeus and that I lust for her.

I am actaully proud of the fact that lusting for my wife has helped me avoid lusting others. Throughout my process I have actually learned to appreciate what I have and rather than looking at others. Since channeling lust towards my wife our shalom bayis has gotten even stronger as I realize that she is the focus of my life. And that yes I can enjoy her and appreciate her even more.

Now people may say I am perscribing love not lust. Well again to me and only me, my mind can't separate the two in marriage. If I enjoy my wife in a physical sense I learn to love her more too. Just like her making a fresh hot supper earns my appreciation and a greater love even though all she is essaintially doing is feeding the me, the gashmias me, my belly.

In a nutshell for me and perhaps only for me, lusting for my wife has helped tremendously and I have nothing to be ashamed of!

waydown wrote:


There is a concern with that. True, while it works it works. But this approach relies greatly on our being in top form with all our faculties and strengths about us. But sometimes during a nisoyon we are not in that strong state of mind. Sometimes that is the very definition of nisoyon, being put in a challenging situation when we don't have all the tools that work for us. So really the only permanent solution is a change of frame of mind.

Eslassos,

If my wife is specifically waiting up for me and not going to sleep despite the fact that it will kill her next day (not just waitng for me to go the store) then 100% yes even for not lust purposes, I am considerate and rush home. The rushing home is mutually exclusive to lust.

My only reason I brought up the rushing home was to show that despite the fact that I was going home to feed myself (which is usually promoted as a selfish act) I still had the othe rparty's feelings in mind.

Maybe one day mehalach #1 will work for me. But right now I just can't bring myself to go thru the whole 12 steps thing. So for now I am resorting to #2.

Re "So really the only permanent solution is a change of frame of mind."

I assume you mean the only permanent solution for an addict is change of mind?? Because there is clearly a general approach as in all sins of life where we go with my first approach. I mean yes occasionally I will slip if I follow my first method. But so what, like with any averio I'll slip brush it off analyze why i sinned and how to try to avoid it next time and move on.

In fact if one anlayzes how the steps are set up under the 30 principles listed in the hiliege site you will find the first 21 are for non addicts and the other 9 are for addicts. I am simply trying to follow the first 21. And maybe I am an addict but I'll only know that when the first 21 are a dismal failure.

waydown wrote:


Great, keep being a nice guy. If that's one of your strengths it could be another tool for you to fight lust by recognizing how giving in to lust would upset your wife if she knew about it, and how it harms your relationship even if she doesn't know about it.

listen, if it's working for waydown then why all the hate! to each their own. there is no "right" answer. i know that in SAA, the lust defenition is different. maybe WD will connect with their readings better. there is a member of the fellowship that i go to that completely doesn't agree with roy k's white book and he has a program that works for him. in the beginning i also thought that WD was delusional, in denial, and incredibly stubborn (sorry WD ) but now i am staring to think maybe i am the stubborn one, trying to control and "fix" others. if it doesn't work for WD then i am sure he will try to change, but for now if it's working then keep doing what ur doing.

hatzlacha raba.