Now that I got to the bottom of all the posts yes i guess I will conclude and leave it as a debate.

I will concede to you all that the shpitz and utimate tzidkus of a jew is no lust or desire just love. Yes there is a whole siman in shulcahn aruch about tashmish and what you should think about. I can't argue on "halacha". And its pretty clear that there ain't no lust involved. My only argument was only that I think the general population (even amoungst us jews) does not totally separate the two. I think most people certainly non addicts and non GYE members think along my lines and have no problem follwing this manner. But yes the GYE chevara are eved hashems and live up to higher standards the even the classic yid who never put much thought into kedusha.

(Sorry I know I am not suppose to use judiasm to combat my illness. Opps that was another closed debate )

waydown wrote:

And once again, you reject any other opinions outright.

Moish,

You got me on my wording. Let me rephrase it. At the end of the day I believe if you'd ask most women that would say that make up is there because they want to look good for their husband not necessarly for themselves. But others may differ on my beliefs.

For you Moish I'll add one more thought. I think that some times because the GYE olim wnats to live a better and higher life we define certain things in life as purer than it is. In this particular case we want to think that only men have piggish animailistc thoughts and its all wrong while women never think like that. This helps us realize how bad off we really are and how we must change or surrender ourselves. But I think (the key is I think) sometimes we are way above what normal society is. Thats not a bad thing necessarly just poinitng that out.

I don't understand what is lust & how did you see in shulchan aruch that it's wrong to have lust,
I want to know if tava & lust are 2 things, because without tava it's just impossible to have an erection

I think there's a conspiracy here. There are 2 parallel posts going on with Waydown and GettingCloser saying the same thing in different words. Looks to me like the same guy with 2 names.

In reality it's 2 separate holy guys making a very important point, and I'll be the 3rd to join in and side with them.

Yes, addiction to lust needs treatment, but lust itself has a place - no?
Or perhaps lust = addiction to lust. I didn't have my shnapps yet today...

The shulcah aruch is not explicit and I will look up what siman it is. But it does discusss what one should have in mind and how one should approach intimacy. Once you go thru that siman you will say that its implictly suggesting that lust or sexual desire is not whatone shoud think about. (if you think about what the shuluchan aruach says trust me its very hard to think lust at the same time)

I think its siman kmem in even hazer. But IYH I will look it up

The actual siman in shulchan aruach that I refrerd to in prior posts, is siman Resh mem is orach chaim (yes its in the meshhna breura too). I'll just say that sief alef seems to take my approach. The mecahber says that tashmish should not be at all lshem tavia but rathe rlshem mitzva preu wrevo. However, one whose yitzro is mesgaber also gets sechar despite the fact that it should not be his ultimate approach.

So I have been very busy or at-least I thought so. Unfourtnatley, I am not doing that well this week. I hope that by posting this I will hold out today. Juts being opne about it sometimes helps.

I do have lots of work pressure and am struggling to balance that with my family and simchas yom tov. Somehow that beast likes hitting me the addict when the pressure builds. Of course its cylical because it just adds more pressure and doesn't help the situation.

Key triggers are often stress, lack of sleep, being cooped up with family for a few days - all hitting at once this time of year, which can't be coincidental, so if it's any comfort you are exactly where Hashem wants YOU - on the front lines.
Chazak V'emotz!

waydown wrote:


We are with you.

Thanks you guys are great. For work related reasons, I had to lock myself in a room and pound away on work over the past two hours. B"H it was sucessful despite the temptations that come from being locked in a room. Now I am home alone while my wife is out with the older kids as I watch my baby who is sleeping. So I am definitly not out of the hole yet.

waydown wrote:


And we are still with you.
Do you ever get the feelin' that your hand is bein' held by the gye chevra? I do.

yes 1000% thanks Cordnoy,:

Today has been one of those days. It could have gone either way. The work pressure is high, its an erev shabbos, and its sukkos. It has been very productive BH. And I got a late start. Just comes to show how much more productve I can be without that lust. I did have a few " almost temptation" minutes. (Like when in the john it comes bitting me. The lust says you are only in the john anyhow. You rae not doing anything productive this second anyway. So why not have a "little" fun. It sounds funny but thats just when my lust loves getting me.) But I remmbered GYE and my post. I did not give in thus far to my temptation to take that first lick.

Once again thanks GYE!

cordnoy wrote:


Yeah, lots of us feel like we're waydown, and hold on the head waiter's hands for dear life.

All of us are holding hands, some are yanking and some are being yanked and I like the yankees

markz wrote:


I hate the Yankees!