Fixed your thread title for you, no need to thank me. 

Keep up the excellent truckage.

alex94 wrote on 02 Jul 2025 14:14:

Your apology is appreciated although unnecessary, I realize that different people have different approaches. 

And I do not wish to negate your own experience. 

What I bolded in your words is, once again, an illustration of just how different our experience and perspectives are, for to me, telling a survivor of traumatic abuse that they may not "ready to hear" whatever, is inherently a pretty direct way of saying that you believe they are "stuck", and are not yet "ready" to absorb some kind of perspective or ideal. 

We are not stuck, and we do not need to be ready for anything. A perpetrator who has inflicted harm and damage and who knows good and well that people are upset at him, yet refuses to be accountable for his actions, deserves not forgiveness nor acceptance.

And I can say and feel that without being "bitter or angry", thankfully those negative emotions have cooled for me for the most part...

We have two totally different modes of expression based on our individual experiences. 

I already posted this above but it seems like some people have missed this point:

"According to psychologytoday.com psychologists tell their clients who were abused that they aren't obligated to forgive. Psychologists also say that it causes a lot of harm when people push those who were abused to forgive when they aren't at a stage where they are capable of forgiving. Psychologists will suggest forgiveness at a late stage of therapy if and when it is feasible."

youknowwho wrote on 02 Jul 2025 13:44:

Different levels of trauma is definitely not something anyone can judge about another. Some people may have a easier time than others, and they may see value in different perspectives.
I write from my perspective as having gone through trauma, religious and other. When I write dont get stuck, im speaking to myself. To me, its not a ideal, its a lifeline, its my only chance at a positive life. 
Many may not be ready to hear this at all, and thats fine. I understand why my perspective is hurtful to them and I should have clearly directed my posts at myself and not as something everyone had to hear.
I am really sorry my posts have caused others pain.

daverose2 wrote on 01 Jul 2025 11:46:


My dear friend Reb Dave,
To yourself you gave,
The gift of clarity
In this world of insanity

For over eight weeks your climbing
Constantly fighting,
On the battlefield of life
That Yetzer Hora you 'feif'

What's most inspirational my friend
Is how you don't waver or bend
You stand tall and proud
With no עצבות allowed

We watch with התפעלות
You in ירושלים של מעלה
You'll go מחיל אל חיל
And help bring about ביאת גואל!!

Just a more vulnerable share, although I hate doing so…

When @bright started this thread, it immediately piqued my interest. I greatly appreciated the discussion, and the approach he was expressing.

A few friends asked me offline why I am not weighing in, given my history.

My reply was that I think the Hellscape I went through is pretty rare and irrelevant to the discussion about legitimate issues being raised “within the system”.

Nonetheless, bright’s posts continued to be a source of healing, a balm to my soul.

I used to be a very judgmental person. I used to look down on certain people, thinking inside that they should just “move on, don’t be stuck, life is life, Hashem runs the world”.

My experience, however unusual it may have been, opened my eyes to the realization that all those people, yes, even people who on “pen and paper” may have gone through less, (for example, their rabbi my not have dangled them by their ankles over a pit of alligators) have had traumatic experience, and it is not in my place to judge that.

Different people respond differently to religious/emotional abuse, just like there exists a variety of reactions to sexual abuse. So much of it depends on nature, nurture, and the individual experience.

So, when I see that guy who is doing things that may be against the Torah, or his upbringing, his culture, my heart breaks for him. I want to hug him, cry with him, and tell him that I feel for him.

That’s all.

Space, space for him to just be.

For how long? I don’t know and I don’t care.

I know I can never be in his shoes, and I also know the pain of well-meaning people telling me, in subtle or not so subtle ways, to just “let go”.

When I shared my story with somebody on this forum, we spoke on the phone, and he cried copious tears, literally sobbing on the phone, and I was shocked at that level of empathy, that level of emotional awareness.

It pains me that on a thread dedicated to religious abuse survivors, we have well meaning people that insist on harping about “ideals”.

I impassionedly implore those who find the “victim mindset” offensive, to think about what I am writing. I have no right to tell anyone what to think or post, and I do respect other people’s opinions, I just want people to realize how hurtful this comes across…I for one have had tremendous healing benefit from bright’s posts, but I feel like he is being watered down by a constant drumbeat of counter points and ideals which continue to water down his very simple point.

Day 8 posting… Day 2 clean

Ahhhh!!! I wanna act out again! The SOS isn't working today; I am having a rough week and acting out is very tempting right now. 
I appreciate all your davs today. Lift me up to the El of Avraham and Yacov. Forgive me if I did not use the correct terminology. 
He is just and kind. 

You might like to see the title of today's Vayimaen message from R' Shimon Gruen
https://www.torahanytime.com/lectures/378875

youknowwho wrote on 02 Jul 2025 11:34:

I dont mean to distinguish between religious and sexual trauma other than theres a certain emotional aspect (at least there are people that feel this way) that if one didn't survive it he should not be talking about it. I have no personal exp. with sexual trauma. I do with religious.
It is possible I have a different experience and that is getting in the way. I'm not conceding that, I'm just saying its possible.
I hope some people have gained from my points but it looks like I have upset others. 
I'm sorry if I derailed this thread.
As I said I think two different angles have been presented and people can clearly choose what suits them and speaks to them more.
Everyone should have hatzlacha in the way that works for them.

Good morning fellow fighters. Just completed 14 days and earned my 'עבד ה badge.
Had a shtickel win yesterday night. I was sitting in a park next to my house where I go sometime in a quiet corner, but its a walkeay, and every few minutes people pass, and its right by someones front door. A few minutes later, a girl, which I didn't look at of course, asked me if it would bother me if she sits on a bench next to me, I don't own the park, who am I to say no? so I told her no problem. The bench next to me was 2 feet to the right and 2 feet behind me, in a way that I wasn't able to see her at all. I thought it's not a problem, and it didn't cause any urges, so I continued sitting for a few minutes. But the presence of a girl next to my was on my mind, and i reminded myself what happened a few weeks ago. So I got up and left, even though it ruined my nightly relaxation. 

Now, to the stroy that happened a few weeks ago. I briefly mentioned it in my first post. One evening, I was on day 38 of no M, feeling very confident that I'm gonna reach my goal of 40 days for the 2'nd time, and break my bad habit,. I was not yet signed up for GYE at the time. I was also sitting in a different park near my house, much more open and public with lots of bachurim hanging out on the benches next to me. Unexpectedly, a motorcycle zooms in to the park and stopped very close to me, of course I turned around to look, and I see an OTD bachur and his girlfriend on the motorcycle, coming to visit his friends hanging out. Maybe he was married, IDK. But anyway, she was wearing a long skirt with which she couldn't sit on the motorcycle, causing her he to be extremely not tzniusdik...
Needles to say that it was extremely triggering having been clean of P for 6 monthes and working on shmiras einiyim for quite a while, and I fell that night, thinking the whole time about Hashems presence and being so close to my goal of 40 days, and set a boundary not to think about woman the whole time only about Hashem, in such a way, that the I did not have an ounce of pleasure and the urge didn't diminish at all...

The next day, I contacted GYE and had a long eye opening (closing?) conversation. I had previously believed that it's impossible for a unmarried individual to reach complete abstinence, my mindset was that of course I'm gonna fall through at some point, but I'll try to reduce the frequency to only once a month or so. I thought that even the greatest tzadikim had to satisfy their bodily needs every once in a while, and Kal v'chomer that 90% of regular bachurim M at least once a week. (I still think so...) The kind representative explained to me that it is indeed possible, and told me he has helped countless bachurim in my situation. One of my first questions was if someone has contacted GYE in the past with a similar situation, asking for help with a struggle to overcome only M after completing 40 days and 38 days and lots of 14 days. I really thought that I'm the first and that he's gonna answer that the program is only for P. I didn't dream in my wildest dream that there are bachurim on here with 500+ days clean, like jewizard21 who I draw tremendous inspiration from.
Anyways, the next few days were very hard, falling multiple times, until i felt that i satisfied the urge. I started the flight to freedom program, learned some techniques, read some posts. Started with a goal of only 3 days. (My favorite method if you've read my previous posts.)
And TYH, here I am, on day 14 again!

Thank you guys! That helps a lot! 

altehmirrer wrote on 02 Jul 2025 03:20:

What strength it must have took for a yid from your dor to post such a post!
WOW!!!

Kudos to how vulnerable you were in that post!

yosefthetzadik wrote on 02 Jul 2025 08:51:

Have a look at the TzitsisDude's signature