I don't really understand the question. You want to be more scared or less scared of porn?
Chocolate and funny clean video clips do not involve the chamur issurim porn does. But ignoring that aspect, if you look around, there's research on the addictiveness of porn. Look at your own life. Are you displaying signs off addiction from porn use? Have you ever experienced something like that from chocolate??
Can you "overdose" on porn? Yes. But unlike heroin it won't stop you breathing. But likely it'll affect your ability to get and maintain an erection, ability to relate properly to your wife and children (and if funny videos are doing the same then you might just have an internet addiction as well), and ability to function.
If you want to read a thread that will shock you, and maybe bring home how destructive this can be, check out this one. Chocolate and funny videos won't do that to your life.

merryzebra74 wrote on 07 May 2024 07:13:

Welcome! hmmmmm.... I tried searching the forum for the words "Maggid Shiur" to see...
guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/390141-Self-Doubts#390141
I am over 30 years old married with children and successful maggid shiur in a Yeshiva Gedolah
guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/388203-Its-all-in-the-name#388203
 "This is eerie. A mechanech. A talmid chacham. Sought after maggid shiur. This is totally eerie."
guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/387345-Niddah-after-childbirth#387350
P**** and M**** behind my wifes back. and living this terrible double life, of Kollel Avreich/ Maggid Shiur on one hand and selfish addict on the other.
guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-Introduce-Yourself/250522-GYE-Convention#250522
Isn't it embarrassing for someone who is a teacher or maggid shiur??
guardyoureyes.com/forum/53-The-12-Step-Program/71580-struggles-thread#71846
 I am also a leader, a program initiater, a maggid shiur sometimes, a writer of divrei torah, etc.
guardyoureyes.com/forum/1-Break-Free/11956-macshefos-and-zonos#12545
I AM AN UPSATNDING FIGURE IN MY KEHILLA A GABBAI A MAGGID SHIUR A BAAL PARNASSA AND I HAVE A WONDERFUL FAMILY

So, overall, I'd say

Welcome, Rebbi!

It is great that you feel the way you do, at least you realize it is wrong and you want to break free! 

Do you think that there are talmidim of yours who also are suffering from this addiction? What would you say to them if you suspected there was an issue or they confided in you?

Do you think they are bad ppl who don't have a place talking in learning on the base, davening for the Amud etc.?

notezy wrote on 06 May 2024 11:26:

Dear Notezy,

I very much understand your pain. I have been working through this too, the past month or so. I wrote a post about it here.

Since that post, I have not been on YouTube. Last night, I went on again, for a little bit. My feelings towards it have definitely changed…It felt different.

I was mindful that this is called “wasting time”, when in the past I did not have that mindfulness.

I was aware that there are triggering stuff here and I better stop, while in the past, there was no space in my brain for that thought.

I even felt a little embarrassed with myself, like, what am I doing over here? Watching some mindless ABC or D, and…now what?

I was aware that I am again engaging in my favorite pastime called escaping, instead of being busy with living life.

I’m not saying that I am done with YouTube forever, that is a daunting thought, and won’t work for me.

(And, I do need some outlets, sometimes watching things, but that is a different discussion. I am referring specifically to the klippah called YouTube)

What does seem to be working is, slowly chiseling away at my love for it. If my love affair with YouTube can slowly be diffused, to the point where it's no longer an addiction, wouldn’t that be a major win?

I am hopeful, and just sharing that hope with you.

Perhaps by staying off it a bit, these feelings can be allowed to develop, at your own pace.

Have an amazing day!

remaininganonymous26 wrote on 05 May 2024 23:22:

There is always hope.  For someone that keeps getting back up to fight there is also tremendous admiration.   

This is a really hard post for me to write. But I think I need to write it to be honest, and for myself. I noticed myself getting into a tough spot in my journey, where BH I was successful, but I was not progressing. What was happening was I would make a neder not to watch inappropriate content, and for the duration of the neder I was successful. When the period of the neder was over, I noticed my tayvos stirring, and I took another neder. And this is how the cycle went. BH successful, but I was not getting anywhere. 
So I did something which at the time I thought was correct, but looking back I could have planned better. I want to work on myself not to rely on the crutch of nedarim. I myself want to be a better person, who doesn't need to watch this garbage. So I stopped making nedarim and tried to fight the monster head on. And I failed miserably...
I should have reached out to you on the forum, I should have devised a plan in advance, but I was foolish...
And I noticed now when I fall, the content gets worse and worse...
I am down in the dumps, but urging myself don't give up. BH if you follow this thread I have had amazing hatzlacha over the past many months. I just sometimes question if it is ever possible to be fully clean. I won't give up (which is why I returned here) and I am back for words of encouragement. 
The hope I hold on to is even if I die as an addict, after 120 I can say I tried... 
So learning from my mistakes, here is the plan: I hope to post every Sunday (even just a short thing- that I'm still in- no need to reply, but I love the encouragement each of you give!), and I'm gonna make a plan (better sources of entertainment, using tools from the flight-plan, fix holes in the filter etc.). I will still use the nedarim trick but only when absolutely necessary. Lets see how it goes, and I can tweak it as time goes on. 
I hope their is still hope for me...please please words of chizzuk!!!

youknowwho wrote on 18 Apr 2024 03:36:

Being away over YT, I hadn't seen this gevaldige post, my friend. One major point I take away is the power of the opportunity to put your thoughts into words on this forum, and to watch the emotions change from the beginning of the post to the end.
My friend, if I may add. I haven't seen anybody promise that sobriety brings bliss. No. But sobriety does guarantee that you'll be living life the way it was meant to be lived. And yes, life has its miserable days, sometimes. Life has its challenges. Life also has its extremely difficult days. But when we are sober, we will live life the way it was meant to be lived. How should we cope if we can't escape to an alternate reality? There are many wonderful ideas out there. I'm sure a professional can give more ideas than I can, so I'll just mention a few:
Living with goals, with a system to meet them, so your life feels worthwhile living. (Goals is a very broad word, including ruchniyus and gashmiyus)
Leaning about G-d's plan, and internalizing that we, and all that happens to us, is part of all of that.
Working on upping our tolerance level.
Talking to friends (maybe this should be number one:))

Dear friend, thanks for being here and adding your un-imitationable (no, there's no such word) flavor here!

5770 wrote on 03 May 2024 00:12:

Dear 5770,

I do not know you personally, you seem like a great guy, fighting hard. Yes, the very fact that you are here, is very special.

 From reading your posts on this thread, I thought it would be beneficial to bring your attention to a link of Dov’s old posts.

This forum is a wonderful place of hope and inspiration. Yet it can sometimes be counterproductive. Sometimes, we are stuck in a cycle, where we act out, feel bad, and then, when that feeling of disgust dissipates, we fall back into square one.

This painfully circuitous cycle repeats itself, and posting here can sometimes give one the illusion that things are progressing, when they are actually not.

Its great to give chizuk that abstaining from porn for barely ten days is amazing, yet it is equally important to be brutally honest with oneself, am I going in circles or am I actually changing?

Am I managing to pull of more significant streaks, am I marching towards kicking this forever?

Am I changing my pattern of thinking? Am I trying to live life as a balanced and healthy person?

Painful questions.

Dov’s posts helped me a lot, because he has a way with words. He has a way of pulling away the curtain of deception, to show us that we may have a problem. “Addict” or not, matters little to me…tachlis….do I have a problem?? Is this a normal way of living, with all these obsessions about lust? Living by not living, but escaping?

I will share them here. Read around, no, not everything may resonate, but there's a lot to learn from and apply to yourself in your own way.

Wishing you much success! -YKW

thing is... its not just about the p**/mas*****.  Its the whole thing. In my case - procrastination breeds boredom, sadness etc which of course causes the acting out. When you get to my age (i'd rather not say ) you got a LOT of things to remind yo about how messed up your life is. Worst of all I have the house to myself most days, so its pretty much open season.  if I can get past 10 days it will be worthy of a lechayim (perhaps I can create another addiction!) Anyhoo good shabbos gents

Terrific conversation. Kol HaKavod to Horizon for bring out such good stuff (and for being vulnerable, that must have hurt a lot to write. Here's a hug, friend.)
Lot of great points and food for thought. I would like to drop my two-cents into the mix, starting with addressing Horizon's original point and then the spin-off discussion between YKW and Chooseurname.

1. To Horizon's question - I agree. But to clarify - I think there's a big difference between a person who falls when he finds himself in a situation of Tayva  and a person who "Goes Looking To Fall". A person who falls when confronted with the YH is first and foremost a healthy male. We don't need to bring proof that the YH for Arayos can be overwhelmingly powerful within the situation. The stories about Rav Amram Chasida and so many other Taanaim and Amoraim that showcase the fact that everyone is potentially vulnerable typically relate stories about a person who finds himself in a compromising situation and either fails or doesn't. That's why pretty much everyone needs a filter, period. Chazal legislated Yichud and taught us that if you're alone with a woman there's a good chance you'll fall, regardless of who you are. A phone can be the same.

But, as Horizon said, a guy who hates the habit and can't bring himself to get rid of the phone; or the guy who goes looking late at night because he feels a deep unsettledness that is driving him in a way he doesn't necessarily quite understand to "go looking" - and he starts on an innocuous website and "somehow" always seems to find himself hours later in the dark and hazy pit of lust - it seems to me that in the latter case usually there's something there that worth digging to uncover.
I want to emphasize - it doesn't have to be a psychosis and the guy doesn't necessarily need therapy. But there is often some kind of pain or discomfort that he has that he has learned to use porn or masturbation or lust to numb, distract or comfort. And therein lies an obstacle to breaking free, beyond the desire to give up the delicious yet unsavory pleasures thereof. [To share - This work helped me a lot, over years. And I never went to therapy.]

2. Chooseurnames points are extremely well taken and qualify this point.
Firstly - in the society we live in, a guy who got used to finding porn on devices can get to the point that he is almost perpetually in a state of Nisayon. It's like always being in a state of Yichud because there's always a device down the hall, waiting.... Someone in that state doesn't necessarily fit the description above. But honestly, a lot of guys here think that's what it is all about initially. But it's not the whole story...  There are often just too many times when one goes looking when he wasn't initially in a state of lusting, to legitimately explain it that way....

3. His second point is equally important. But I want to qualify it and mix in some of what YKW pointed out.
Yes, of course, sticking your hand deep into the sticky, sweet and smutty cookie jar of the pink hazy lusting has a deep and profound effect, and you can get hooked (habit, addictive behavior, whatever). All true. But this experience and habit can then also become wired into and connected to whatever other stuff you have going on inside. 
You see, I don't believe that a guy who feels disconnected and lonely will necessarily seek out porn and lust מעיקרא to fill up the hole in his center if he had never been exposed. But if he was exposed, and he got somewhat hooked on the stuff, it can then go and fill a NEED, too, and then he will start developing patterns in which he uses the lust to fill a hole and need, not just because it's delicious. So the points are not contradictory - rather they are both true. 

4. You Know Who is very right, in his real and pragmatic (and slightly dark) way (of course you are dark, Tom). 
Once we have twisted thinking in place, and have broken boundaries and tasted how the sickly sweetness of lust not only tastes good but also can help ease whatever emotional pain we carry, we have a bigger problem than lust itself. But to use this to absolve us of the responsibility (or ability!) to break free, is further twisted thinking. Because we have to break free if we want to live, amomg other reasons.
So i agree that it's healthier, probably, to call them "triggers", when trying to work to understand the patterns. But I also think it's important to identify the vulnerabilities and needs we have to be able to honestly address them.
And yeah, to break the patterns some guys could use therapy. And some people should use The Program, which has saved so many when nothing else could. And some guys can manage with a conversation with a loving sledgehammer, or with a good friend who understands and can empathize and has some experience. Or can maybe figure it out on a long walk and introspection, or a little Hisbodedus. Or Davening and whispering and pouring his heart out. Whatever works for you.

It takes work to dig. Friends can help. It hurts, too. One of my Rabbeim used to say that understanding a problem is halfway to solving it. The other half aint easy, through. 

Thanks for listening.
I am,
מאן דבעי חיים

chooseurname wrote on 02 May 2024 20:04:

At first, as I pictured your thumb waving, I completely lost you,   but now, reading this paragraph, the bolded part in particular, yes, I now understand what you are trying to say. 

It definitely is counterproductive and dangerous for one to say, hey, I'm a "wounded, tortured soul", so therefore I can justifiably do whatever I want. 

I would still imagine though, that this danger of rationalizing exists whether one initially got into it through dramatic emotional trauma, or developed a flavor for it and it is now triggered into it by emotional triggers, or whether he is addicted to it, or just a bad habit etc.

And, it may or may not be very challenging, in any of these categories, to break out of this unhealthy pattern of thinking and living. 

I appreciate your point, now I'd better get back to work!

chooseurname wrote on 02 May 2024 14:50:

I enjoyed the nuance of your question. I also appreciated the way you explained how many people can get stuck in the porn trap. Though I’m not sure if I’m understanding the nafka minah.

Afilu im timtzah loimar that there are no dramatic emotional issues, this person potentially has the same amount of painful work to do. He is presently wired to lust when tired/stressed/etc

Yes, there are the emotional triggers, and yes, we have unfortunately taught ourselves (sometimes beyond our control, i.e. earlier in life) that sweet porn is the answer, so even if there is no dramatic emotional issue, there’s still a manifestation of a “problem”, meaning, that just simply explaining how bad porn is etc. (or, whichever way you meant by “dealing just with the porn”) or regular shmiras ainayim ruchnies talk, will not work for too long. It is still agonizingly difficult to not run back to that cozy haven when emotional stress builds.

So, whether a dude is thinking he’s tzad one, two, or somewhere in between, there is still all that painful emotional work of dealing with these emotional triggers, in other words, learning how to live like a balanced, normal, healthy person.

I may not have understood your point, feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong. 

Keep churning out those great nuggets of wisdom, I am really appreciating it! 

Some might suggest that Iam an addict and I need something more than GYE, However, per my therapist, I dont fit the criteria. In addition going to meetings isnt an option for me for many reasons. so....

horizon wrote on 01 May 2024 20:30:

Wow, really insightful post. 

Just thinking a little about the quote above. Why can't it that even this driven guy is just holding on to porn? Porn hits some of our deepest human drives, provides all the little chemical pleasures etc. So while perhaps sometimes someone has a porn issue because they are compensating for the love they never felt etc. But my gut feeling is that 90+% of the time it's just they ate from the cookie jar over and over until they wired their brain into that pleasure. And then every time they feel an emotional pain of any sort, they run to sooth it with their favorite pleasure.  Without getting into the sugya if that person is then technically an "addict", porn is an addictive sort of pleasure.

This is my question. My ignorant ramblings on why I think it's a good question are below.

L'mai nafka mina? Major nafka mina. If pornography usage is a symptom/siman of an underlying lack in life then you can't fix the porn without fixing the ikar problem. But if porn is the siba/root problem, and the emotional lack is just one type of tickle that porn uses to justify itself, then porn is the problem that needs to be addressed. Fixing the underlying emotional problem is also important, but wouldn't necessarily solve the porn problem, and also wouldn't be required to solve the porn problem. 

Maybe this is me trying to convince myself I just have a porn problem, not deeper emotional problems. But I'm generally leery of navel-gazing about the "source" of pornography usage. Note that I 100% agree that it's important to identify your triggers so you can be on guard, and if that trigger is a feeling of emotional distance then it's very impressive self-awareness to catch that. 

chaimoigen wrote on 02 May 2024 04:05:

And that people will criticise you for using different methods than those used here. How do you know so much about GYE in your very first post?
your comment brings proof to my worry.i imply from your words that i must know that people here will criticise me for using diffirent methods since i know so much about gye,youre only question was how do i know so much.that just confirmed my worry . i hope it wont be a problem as i was worried.ty