Welcome, Guest

macshefos and zonos
(0 viewing) 
A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: macshefos and zonos 2678 Views

macshefos and zonos 13 Aug 2009 07:30 #11956

  • bochur28
evey night I daven at a shtiebel about 5 blocks from my house - there are these women who stand outside a small apartment that has a sign advertising 'psychic readings' on it - they've asked me if I want a reading about 5 times already whenever I pass - once they followed me for about a block trying to convince me.

So, I started walking on the other side of the block - it worked until tonight. I walk down the block on the opposite street after davening, and I get a certain sensation that she might cross the street to get to me - and kach haya. There's 2 or 3 of these ladies - two of them dress very elegantly and unfortunately are very attractive - baruch hashem, chasdei hashem one of them is pretty ugly - she was the one who crossed the street to sell her garbage to me. She said 'could I interest you in a reading'? I keep walking, and while walking, I said no

She asked 'why not?'
I said: because my religion doesn't allow it
She said 'does your religion allow you to have sex?'
I Answered: yes, but not with you
She asked 'why not with me?'

I just walked away without answering. I thought that was it - I even said to myself 'baruch hashem she wasn't pretty, or it would have been a huge nisayon'. Then, when I come home, feeling very cnfident that it wasn't even a nisayon. What happened? never make fun of the yatzer hora - he got to me. It got me to have hirhurim about this tramp - if I had passed the same woman on the street, I'm sure I wouldnt have had the slightest second thought about her - just another average woman. What happened? There was a connection - she tried to connect to me, and make herself a factor in my mind. when this happens, there's a shaychus to it happening - you feel, 'it was possible for me to do XYZ'.

I fell tonight, but I learned a huge lesson - a few nights ago I was thinking 'feh! taviah? I am totally finished with it - never happening again. An ishah is just a bunch of tzoah and dam' (1). I had felt so good about myself, I felt kadosh and tahor! The yatzer hora reminded me that I can fall prey to the lowest of women in the most debased, tumah-dige, anti-g-d atmosphere imaginable. Just think - these women might very well be macshefos - and we know that both znus and kishuf are tumah, so the tumah of znus is related to the tumah of kishuf, right?.

Rabbi Twerski sometimes discusses self-esteem - I think this was at play here a lot. When I used to have a girlfriend r"l at 15, she gave me confidence, well, to a degree. It was mainly because she showed a lot of affection to me, and she, coming from the secular world, was sort of validating me, that I wasn't the weirdo everyone always thought I was that I was normal enough to have a girlfriend who was a skinny model. This, when you add in the fact that while growing up in a secular atmosphere, the 'cool' kids always had girlfriends - after I dumped the tool of the soton, I got involved in showing camera videos of myself exposed on the internet to people who were claiming to be women, which also gave me self-esteem - why? because 'normal' girls liked me, and thought I was 'hot' and intelligent. Of course, watching pornography did the same thing - I lived vicariously through the videos, fantasizing about doing those things lemaysoh. So, it comes out that my sexual past all had links to the desire to be validated and have self-esteem, which I thought these people were giving me.

Now we come to the psychic-zonos.

They also played on this weakness of mine - they called me 'sweety', and so forth. They walked over to me, not waiting for me to come to them, which is a chashivus. Even goyim would see them as lowly, so why couldn't I? why was I so obsessed with fulfilling my selfish desires at the loss of my kedushah that I didn't see the overt trickery? These zonos were not being machshiv me - they saw dollar signs. The p-rn industry sees dollar signs, too. The ones who are not professional but post videos of themselves are out for fame and gaiva. The secular women who become people's 'girlfriends' are just crying out for someone to fill a connection they seek which in reality is the desire to feel close to G-d - I dont think that was the case with my former girlfriend though - I think she was motivated by pure design of the sitra achra - Ihave reason to believe she was some sort of demon, or maybe partially demonic - for reasons I cant write about due to nivul peh, there were just things she did that normal people wouldn't have done, things that the sitra achra just loves. But to try to explain without nivul peh; she wanted the neshomos that were about to be brought down, for herself. I'll leave it at that. Our relationship was almost entirely sexual and sexually-oriented - nothing else. We would talk for hours on the phone about nothing but taivos and materialism - this is not how girls are normally. Typically, young girls are eager to discuss fashion, their friends, and other non-sexual things - this one didn't. It was all taiva and the made up illusion of 'love', with the exception of her ramblings about modeling. I never saw her feet.(shaydim cannot change their feet and are web-footed). She seemed to be living in utter materialism and tumah, and always tried to get me to sin with her. She also posted videos of herself online dressed immodestly; her mother was a hippie who let her smoke in her house, and the man her mother was living with was a Jew who was raised frum and become reconstructionist(people who believe you can be a good Jew without believing in g-d) - this guy said he would want to 'learn' with me if I spent the night in their house cv's - there was something spirtiually disgusting about this whole family.

The same thing happened here - no one would expect a yeshiva guy to fall in hirhurim over..for a zonah? I could understand falling in a maysoh znus, since that's the taivoh of a spur-of-the-moment, but hirhurim? desiring her, this ugly pig? and not only was she ugly physically and spiritually(with her kishuf) - what was it? the oldest trick in the yatzer hora's book - THE classification in mishlei of the yatzer hora - the ishah zonah!

I took a mussar haskel from this on another level, too. The first Gr"a on mishlei says that the ishah zonah wants to use her 'chomer' and always find a different 'tzurah'(form, i.e., the one who lives with her) - that is znus. Cheating on hashem for a different tzurah(different value, or religion, or belief, etc..) like a woman cheating on her husband with a different tzurah - this teaches loyalty to G-d over all personal loyalties.

Leaniyus dayti hakoton, I think we can see this come out in the mitzvos. There are mitzvos and halachos that pit our loyalty to g-d over man. Yayin nesech, gevenas akum, bishul akum, tznius, women not learning gemora, no homosexuality or premarital sex(or even thoughts of sex!) all of them are detestable in the eyes of the goyim, something to mock and look at us as backward, 'fanatical', and such. This tests our loyalty to hashem - why are you returning that lost item, is it because it's a mitzvah that g-d told you to do, or is it because you feel it's right?(there's an issur to return aveidos to goyim if there's no kiddush hashem - one who does so is oiver an asei and is mevazeh the mitzvah), and other tests.

Loyalty to G-d means I get my self-esteem from my G-d, and my status as His son made in His image to carry out His holy will - nothing can top that, no zonah, no girlfriend, no women online, not even the entire UN - nothing.


(1) - ayin gemora shabbos 152 - I saw the maharsho on that gemora today, a short and sweet one, after this incident, which explains that it's going on 'oisah hamakom' of a woman. This makes it sooo mistaber - for a long time I struggled to understand that gemora; I thought it meant a whole woman is 'tzoah', and her mouth is full of dam literally, no, zogt the maharsha, mouth full of dam means the pesach is full of dam and tzoiah, yet all run after her like meshugoim. I looked at the gemora after seeing a gevaldige aruch hashulchan - that taiva is keneged the seichel; if not for the fact that hashem made a gezera of giving the yater hora power, no one would want to have children because of the disgust of a woman's body - davar ma'us, says the aruch hashulchan(ayin siman chaf-gimel, even ho'ezer, first shtikel), so, therefore hashem made this meshigas in a person to desire women. Of course, it has other purposes too, like giving us the chance to get schar, use it as a springboard for our love of hashem and our cheshek to always be near him, etc..)

---
endnote:
I mostly wrote this to be mechazek myself - getting it all out makes me more organized and mentally satisfied with my decisions in breaking the hirhurim(they're gone now, for now, baruch hashem). Baruch hashem, for the first time in a while, I actually understood a sefer! I typically have to know what a sefer says in order to chap what it is saying - my teiching and understanding of the lashon is very lacking, but the aruch hashulchan is easy to lain; so was the maharshah and that gemora, but other gemoras when I open them, i still get lost a lot of times unless I have some idea of what's going on previously, so I dont want to deceive people by giving the impression that I know how to learn well - I don't. Most of what I know comes from things I learned orally, and what I read in english.
Last Edit: 13 Aug 2009 07:41 by frager.ben@gmail.com.

Re: macshefos and zonos 13 Aug 2009 13:44 #12051

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 805 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6438
  • Karma: 138
Dear Tzadik, your Avodah shakes the heavens! The most important thing now is to not let the fall get you down. The Yetzer Hara wants this more than anything else!


I fell tonight, but I learned a huge lesson - a few nights ago I was thinking 'feh! taviah? I am totally finished with it - never happening again. An ishah is just a bunch of tzoah and dam' (1). I had felt so good about myself, I felt kadosh and tahor!


I just saw a story in the Gemara (Taanis 24a). The Gemara says that there was a drought and Rav Nachman davened for rain and the rain still didn't come. When Rav Nachman saw that his prayers were not answered he began to bemoan and cry "take Nachman and throw him down off a high wall onto the ground!" (in other words, if Hashem doesn't answer me, I'm obviously not worthy - so remove me from my high status as a Tzadik/Amorah). And the Gemara says that Rav Nachman had "chalishus hada'as" - which means he felt a great disappointment, and right then the rain came! That really struck home a point, because it shows just how much Hashem loves us, yet he waits for our hearts to be truly humbled and broken before Him. Once we know we can't do it; once we acknowledge that we have no credit on our own and we truly feel that we don't deserve anything, THAT IS WHEN Hashem sends the salvation!

Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: 13 Aug 2009 13:47 by finallychanging.

Re: macshefos and zonos 13 Aug 2009 14:04 #12059

  • ChaimChaim
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 126
  • Karma: 0

Yasher Kochacha on the victory!
You stayed away, more than 4 amos, and knew how to let go.

ספר משלי פרק ז


הִטַּתּוּ בְּרֹב לִקְחָהּ בְּחֵלֶק שְׂפָתֶיהָ תַּדִּיחֶנּוּ:
Rov likcha - Her speaking to you is a great danger as you said, the more you converse - the worse!
Marbe sicha im Isha - cut the words to the bare minimum being conscious of every syllable you waste.
This consicousness is the key to not letting go, and coming home wholesome.

Are you going to walk the same route?
Behatzlacha!
Last Edit: by .

Re: macshefos and zonos 13 Aug 2009 20:43 #12167

  • bochur28
chaim, I dont know, if i keep on the other side of the street, they might not bother me again..plus there are times hen if i tae a diferen rode i might miss minyan - plus, on the ay back it's late and i cnt walk down the resedential streets..it's a sakanah - maybe the aitzah is just ton run that entire block when i get to it, i dont know.
Last Edit: by kobebryant.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 03:32 #12280

  • bochur28
baruch hashem the zonos werent there tonight - i asked the rov of my shul if he thought they were macshefos - he said that palm readers are usually just gypsies who want money, not tumah-users.
Last Edit: by growingtoday1.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 06:58 #12294

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 805 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6438
  • Karma: 138
If you can take a different route, you MUST... What if tomorrow they WILL be there again?? And what if this time, the pretty one approaches you? Don't trust yourself. Detour all around the city if you have to! You will get schar for every extra step you take in gold!
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by hatsadikyossef.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 08:33 #12303

  • bochur28
reb guard - that sounds mistaber; sorry, i must be under the influnece of negios here - i fell again tonight, i have this habit of taking the halacha of not strengthening my yatzer very seriously; I dont look at images or videos, but i have this thing where i want to type in things in google for some reason - a tiny dose of tumah by typing in pereve words that i know will produce tumah results, or looking up tumah on wikipedia without seeign images or even nivul peh words - just information about the tumah - it's the yatzer hora's last stand; all it takes is one small fall, and i could be toast if hashem hadn't helped me - who knows how many zchusim i used up to not fall deeper!! im scared now - im imagining a huge tumult iun shomayim about whether to let me go into the pits of tumah or not..honestly, writing about these nisyonos helps tremendously - by writing it out i realized the whole google thing is a pretty big nisayon after all.

that's it - tomorrow night, bli neder, it's the lonely deserted street instead of the den of the psychic-zonos, thanks.
Last Edit: by minYan.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 11:18 #12314

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 805 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6438
  • Karma: 138
Ashrecha on your decision of taking the round about way!

As far as Google, we addicts know exactly what you mean... that menuval sneak will try any trick in the book (actually, today he uses the internet to search for tricks... this is Yetzer Hara 2009). You may find it helpful to make a neder for a week/month whatever, not to make an searches on the internet for any provocative words... This can be helpful, because the nisayon is not as great as it seems, and as soon as we know it's off bounderies, the nisayon fades away... If you are afraid you may still stumble, make a neder that IF YOU search for provocative words or images, you will need to do 50 push ups in the next hour. That might help... something like that. We need to fight him with guerrilla tactics, never face on. He's stronger than us, so we need to AVOID him. He's smart, so we got to be smarter.
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by jewishwife.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 12:01 #12317

  • bochur28
reb guard - the poskim(contemporary for our dor) advise making nedorim? i always thought it was one of those things we dont do anymore today, not being on that level(like fasting, etc..) - also, dont chazal criticise those who make nedorim, even when keeping them? i know it can help by making a strong barrier, but wont it make it that much worse if i fall, being not only oiver on whatever issur i did, but also on the laav of lo yachel devaro?

thanks
Last Edit: by lostbattlebutnotthewar.

Re: macshefos and zonos 14 Aug 2009 14:26 #12349

  • Will
  • Current streak: 2 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: 0
bochur28 wrote on 14 Aug 2009 12:01:

reb guard - the poskim(contemporary for our dor) advise making nedorim? i always thought it was one of those things we dont do anymore today, not being on that level(like fasting, etc..) - also, dont chazal criticise those who make nedorim, even when keeping them? i know it can help by making a strong barrier, but wont it make it that much worse if i fall, being not only oiver on whatever issur i did, but also on the laav of lo yachel devaro?

thanks


Hey bochur,

I thought the same thing until a few weeks ago... Theres a gemara in Nedarim where Rebbe Nosson states that a person who makes a neder is as if he built a bama (a mizbeach upon which korbanos are assur), and if he keeps his neder its as if he was makriv a korban ON the bama! But whats goin on?! What then is the point of the pasuk "Ish ki yidor neder LaHashem"?
I forgot who brings it down, but it turns out that if a person makes a neder out of anger or spur of the moment, its as if he built a bama and was makriv on it...but if a person is making a neder to make himself do a mitzvah, then its a MITZVAH to make a neder! And the pasuk is even meRamez that by saying "Ish ki yidor neder LaHashem"- that is 'when a person makes a neder FOR Hashem'- i.e. the only time you CAN make a neder, is if its FOR Hashem.

So, Im sure that in a case like this where a neder will keep you out of a makom sakana, and you are obviously making this neder for Hashem- its actually a mitzvah.

Will
Last Edit: 15 Aug 2009 18:04 by .

Re: macshefos and zonos 16 Aug 2009 09:53 #12480

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 805 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6438
  • Karma: 138
Normally making vows is frowned upon by our sages as with someone playing with fire, but when it comes to girding oneself from these temptations, we find that making vows is praised by the Torah and by Chazal. As the Pasuk says "Nishbati va'akayeima, lishmor mishpatei tzidkecha - I have vowed and will uphold it, to guard your righteous laws". And as it says "Nishba lehora velo yamir - oseh eileh lo yimot le'olam - He who swears to prevent bad and does not nullify... he will never falter".

The Zohar in Parshas Yisro (on the third commandment about not swearing falsely in the name of G-d) writes:

"A vow to fulfill a commandment of his Master, this is a truthful vow (like someone who swears truthfully in court), like it says "Ubishmo Tishave'ah - and in his name you shall swear". When the Yetzer Hara is tempting a man and enticing him to break a commandment of his Master (and he vows to hold himself back), this is a vow that his Master is praised through, and indeed a man must to swear in his Master's name on this, and this is his Master's praise, and Hakadosh Baruch Hu is praised through him. Like by Boaz, as it is written "In the life of the Lord, lay here until the morning". Because the Yetzer Hara was enticing him, and he swore on this".

When Ruth came to Boaz at night, he swore in the name of G-d not to be with her that night, and he told her to sleep until the morning. Even though Boaz was the greatest Tzaddik of that generation, he didn't trust himself without a vow.

However, one must be very careful when making these types of vows.
See this page: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/TipsShavuos.asp
And this page: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/FAQ/FAQ33.asp
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: by josh green.

Re: macshefos and zonos 16 Aug 2009 11:22 #12500

  • bochur28
reb guard - on motzi shabbos, I was walking back, and I saw her - the petty one - so now I developed a new system. I walk to the point where I can see her from far away, like a half a block - then if I see anyone, I go down a sidestreet, and if not, I continue - same system for walking to shul.

Anyway, regarding nedorim, I remember once when I was first stopping masturb-ting, I was takeh learning mesechta nedorim - with all the fire I was envelopoed in from the mesechta, I made a neder that I at least wouldn't be pogem if I had the thought of 'you'll stop eventually' beforehand,(I later fouind out that the lashon I used was a shavua, since it's chal on the gavra, not the chafetz) since this was a constant tainah of the yatzer. It did work pretty well - within a few weeks, I had stopped being pogem altogether.

Machshavos are sooo much harder!! Things with my hands I get - just slap myself, tie down my hand, cover my eyes or whatever - i can stop that with hashem's help. But with my thoughts, I start going crazy - my mind goes bazerk, hoinestly, it's the hardest nisayon i've ever had.

Anyway, I'm too afraid of making nedorim about machsehavos - wayy too easy to fall and chas veshalom be oiver another isser laav of lo yachel devaro. The thing with the zonos though, seems feasible - I might make a neder to go a different way if I see her.
Last Edit: by fresh start.

Re: macshefos and zonos 16 Aug 2009 11:29 #12506

  • bochur28
Youtube is so dangerous - I got a link to a video of a yosef karduner song, so I watched it, and wouldn't you know, on the bottom there's an ad for some celebrity prutzah - my old yatzer kicked in. I didnt watch the video, but I had a roundabout way of satisfying the taiva - instead of watching the znus or the video at al, or even any picture, I typed in the name of the prutzah and looked at a wikipedia page, being a frum yatzer hora, I of course covered her immodest picture on wikipedia to not see it, and read through the nonsense for about 2 minutes until I got some sense into myself and X-ed it out - of course, woudlnt you know, the yatzer hora planted an article in that wikipedia entry about this celebrity having some controversy over nude pictures on the internet - of course, I had a taiva to get them - they were readiuly accessible. I got up from my seat, caught myself, and cooled off.

These 'little' falls are adding up - anyone know of a way to fight it when it's something that's 'not so bad'?
Last Edit: by Markz.

Re: macshefos and zonos 16 Aug 2009 13:32 #12529

  • the.guard
  • Current streak: 805 days
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 6438
  • Karma: 138
Dear Bochur, I wasn't referring to nedarim about Machshavos. That would indeed be too hard to keep. I am referring to nedarim that will prevent exactly the type of thing that just happened to you with the on-line Prutzah. To make a neder, say for a few weeks (to see if it works well or not) not to click on any link or type in any words to search for that you can assume would bring up on the screen any image or text that would arouse your desire for women.

And if you are still afraid you might break it, so be smart and make a round-a-bout neder, that if you do xyz (as above) then you will have to do 50 push ups, or something else you really don't want to do.

Did you read those two pages I linked for you (about how to make nedarim in a smart way)?

P.S. And get a filter installed!! A strong one. And don't hold the password.
Webmaster of www.guardyoureyes.org - Maintaining Moral Purity in Today's World. We’re here on a quest ; it’s really all a test. Just do your best and G-d will do the rest.
Last Edit: 16 Aug 2009 17:12 by simplejew00.

Re: macshefos and zonos 16 Aug 2009 15:27 #12545

  • bardichev
HEILIGER BOCHUR

I WOULD LIKE THE ZCHUS TO SPEAK TO YOU FOR A FEW MINUTES

IMAGINE WE ARE CLOSE FREINDS AND WALKING ALONG SHORE RD.
OR SITTING IN A SHTEEBLE AFTER A SHALOM ZACHOR AND TALKING IN TO THE WEE HOURS OF THE MORNING

WHAT I WOULD LOVE TO TELL YOU IS HOW I ENVY YOUR HONESTY

I DO NOT ENVY YOUR NISAYON

OK HERE IS SOME bARDICHEVER STREET TALK

A.EVERYONE HAS A YH YOU YOUR ROSHYESHIVA YOUR REBBE EVEN THE SCHNORER IN SHUL

THE YH IS A TRICKSTER
LISTEN SLOW AND HARD HE DOES NOT "NEED" YOU TO BE OIVER ANY CHET HE WINS THE WAR BY SIMPLY ENGAGING YOU IN THE "SHAKLA VITARYA"
I FEEL BAD SOUNDING LIKE AN OLDER GUY SAYING BEEN THERE DONE THAT I HATED WHEN MY RABBEIM TOLD IT TO ME
I WILL TWIST IT A BIT
DONT WAIT TO BE MY AGE TO GIVE IT UP
IF YOU THINK IT IS HARD NOW...
WAIT... TZADIKKLE...OY. THE NISYONOS..OY..THE SHTICK..
THE YH IS SO CREATIVE
B.TZADDIK YOU WILL NEVER OUTSMART THE YH
DO NOT TRY RATHER PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME
I WILL NOT JUDGE YOU .I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU NEED THE WEB AND IT COULD BE CURIOSITY AND BOREDOM AND THAT IS NORMAL
MY GOOD CHAVER.. I AM AN UPSATNDING FIGURE IN MY KEHILLA A GABBAI A MAGGID SHIUR A BAAL PARNASSA AND I HAVE A WONDERFUL FAMILY
TZADDIK I ALMOST "LOST IT ALL TO YOUTUBE"
PLEASE YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO THE BEST YEARS AND OPPORTUNITY IN LIFE YOU WILL ONLY GAIN BY STAYING CLEAN
YES IT IS HARD.YES EVERYONE IS DOING IT..YES YOU WILL HAVE NEFILLOS..BUT THE ARE EXCUSES
NOT REASONS
PLEASE LISTEN TO ONE MORE THOUGHT.
YOU CAN NOT WIN THE YH
YOU "NEED TO AVOID" HIM

WITH ALL THE LOVE IN THE WORLD
bardichev   
Last Edit: by pranab65.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.60 seconds

Are you sure?

Yes