Yes, life has its way of bein' extremely tough.

SadlyI, we/i have been trained to deal with it in only one or two ways.

So anyways life goes on right,right 
But that doesn't mean that it is easy I have not been together for over a month now even our recent mikvah night nothing happened do to a really k'vetchy baby (which is still k'vetching and crying and making us both sick)
Managed to give her her side of the deal one morning right before I had to go to shacharis felt good a little but still damn frustrating.

Seems like a lot of the family here is coming on trying times I h*p* everyone can come to terms and learn to live life but for now just 

KOTNMW

found this and saving here for easier finding for when needed...
a very interesting converstation between pentinant and REBBEREBER=DOV 

i added breaks to make this readable 


penitent wrote on 31 Dec, 2009:
I read a lot of the white paper re:SA. I do see myself in that and relate it to my own experiences. 
I do have a problem though with understanding all this "lust" etc. 
Maybe I look at myself and my relationship with my wife... I have all these thoughts in my head.... part of me wants to break down and cry, as so many times before. 

The gemara in Yoma 74: says in the name of R' Zeira "Tov mar'eh aynayim mehalach nafesh.. Tov mar'eh aynayim b'isha, yoter m'gufah shel ma'aseh" To look is always better than the actual deed. 

It's the musings we conjure up in our minds that is exciting. It's intersting to note that scientifically, the sympathetic system is responsible for arousal, erection, while the parasympathetic system-which calms us down- is responsible for ejaculation. 
 I always thought that the final Zing would be carried out by the system that is responsible for an excitatory response. In reality, you could say it's all over when that time arrives. Am I too deep? Anyone have any clue what I'm saying? Do I??? 

My original question is that chazal recognize human nature. To call it lust and label it a problem i.e. say I have a disease and to give me a cure seems extreme. Maybe I am in denial. See what I mean by thoughts in my head? 

Did chazal call that lust? maybe. but they stress controlling the yetzer. There is a book called Cheshbon Hanefesh which was written 150 years before Pavlov dogs, which really targets behavior modification. I recommend it highly. Chazal may tell us of Gedarim we should set but it's another thing to put it into practice.

REBBEREBER=DOV answwers in not -so-dovish 


quote=dov" link=topic=763.msg40619#msg40619 date=1262284223] 
Dear Penitent - 
 Yes, it is clear that the different nervous systems work that way, as I have shared with some people out of my own experience. I'll PM you something about that issue specifically. 

I love you. Period. So, please consider taking what I will share with you the way it is meant - not at all as criticism - only as a sharing of my experience with you. Besides, as "imtrying25" will tell you, I haven't had a rant in a while, so it's about time.... 

You ask about SA's use of the term "Lust". You are bringing up chazals to understand the term, rather than using examples from your own personal experience with your own problem. I'm all for chazal, but if we  are trying to uncover what is really going on within us, it would seem that being honest with ourselves is far more important than what a sefer says. 

If folks say this borders on apikorsus, then my response to them is that I'll gladly choose honesty in gehinom over dishonesty in Gan eden, any day. Why? Because the only thing that saved me from my personal gehinom in addiction - and it was gehinom (I need no chazal or sefer to tell me that) - was honesty. And in my case, I needed a chevra and a sponsor to help me do that. I found that in SA. 

Besides, chazal tell us that this world is an olam hafuch - those who are high here are are low there. To me that includes us when our frumkeit that is external - only in our brains, like Eisav's big head. Trust me, when we inject some shameless personal honesty into the mix, Torah becomes incredibly more powerful as a force in our lives. V'anavim yirshu aretz. The one's who seem low on the outside, are really high. Kapeesh? 
   
 On the other hand, being frummer did me no good, it was doomed to forever be a half-measure because - after all - I was the one defining and enacting the "frumkeit". It seems that you are in the same boat, otherwise why are you here?  ;D 

Do you get what I mean? 

What do chazal mean when they tell us: "Derech Eretz Kodmah L'Torah"? To me, this is exactly what they are talking about. 

Don't look to the Torah to save you when you are insane. How can you expect to succeed while you'll be the one applying and measuring it? The basis of all frumkeit is personal responsibility. 

Darf zeyn a mentch, ershtence. 

The yidden at Har Sinai had to be healed before they could accept the Torah, right? Yidden need to have some basic mental health - specifically self-honesty - to use Torah successfully as instructions for living. 
 Otherwise it's known, but not applied - hey! kind of like in our case, right? The GYE-er: a frum yid who just can't "get frum" in this area...drives us nuts, doesn't it? 

In fact, a total shoteh is totally patur from the mitzvos. We in addiction are not true shotim, only full of "ruach" shtus. We are not p'turim, but seem doomed to fail at it. This insanity is clearly discussed in all 12 step literature. If you want to talk about it more, I'll gladly share my insanity with you (that sounds funny, doesn't it?). 

So, I ask you (as chazal put it): how can a "chavush be matir himself from the beis ha'asurim"? Chazal inform us that he can't. And who is more of a chavush than an addict? No one, to me. Isn't the self-application of Torah exactly what all of us do for years and years until we make enough of a mess of things that we finally reach out for help, as you are? 
Keep reaching for help. It's here. 

Now, maybe we can talk about lust a bit..... 
  
 [/quote] 

ok now the truckdriver rebbe of woodford and bardstown kentucky come in to ekplain in plain english what REBBE REB BER=DOV is sayin 

take it away bards.... 


Pentinent 

I am a talmid of the RebbeRebBer=DOV 
Although I never spent a day in his yeshivah 

There is a language called Dovish 

You need to learn Dovish to "chapp" 
DOV 

I used to fight rebberebdov 
Why cause I was so "macho" I was armed to the teeth with 
 Chazal 
Courage 
Resolve 
Humor 
A mouth like a trucker 

I was convinced DOV was a crazy robot apikoress 

Pentinent 
Let's make cheshbon hanefesh together 

When we were in the thick of our taava 
Didn't we know all these chazals 
Didn't we have the courage 
Didn't we have all the machoness that a loser (sic) that dov is missing 

And and and 
We still had no control 

If anything we used some chazal(I did) to boost our YH 

Hello who is the apikores 
Me and my chazal or dov and his 12 steps 

Hey I am not a 12 stepper 

But we need to learn from dov 

As long as "I" fight the YH 
 "I" is in big trouble 

When I surrender 
I don't know ginoi(exactly) how dov taitches  surrender but bardichev thinks it means when we remove the "zhich" the stoopid monkey in the middle GAAVA 
From the equation 

I am again not a 12 stepper 

But what DOV says is when a man is clearly not a bar sechel we cannot use sichliyos first he must be a man 

Yes we can become a man again thru Torah 
By realizing that we are so helpless witout HKB"H 

Coming from a non-12 guy 

All dov is teaching us is what is pshat in the gemara "ilmalai HKB"H ozroi lo yachal loi" 

Hashem doesnot need our helP we need his and we need a lot of it 

I know I write a lot of jokes on the forum . I do it to cheer myself up and to cheer up people like DOV and everyone else .Simcha is my key weapon and DOV uses it 
If u look in the ohr hachaim in ekev he says a lot of what I say here 

I have a posotive spin that it is never too late to start living 
 I call it 
 Keep on trucking!! 

Jump on my truck!! 

DOV comes here too (sources say) 

W 
A 
T 
L 
I 
 T 
W 

Bards

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 02 May 2017 17:58:

It can be really difficult when you haven't been together for over a month(!). Hang in there, in some way shape or form this can help you grow stronger. Use these difficult times to grow. When it passes, you'll look back to these experiences and see a painful, but overall, positive time of your life, due to the growth that it spurred!

KOT
KOG (oing)
DGU (don't give up)
YCDO (You can do it!)

Here is a lesson for all

bardichev wrote on 10 Feb 2010 17:52:

Dov wrote on 08 Mar 2010 20:53:

bardichev wrote on 01 Sep 2010 17:58:

ovadia wrote on 13 Sep 2010 09:45:

Dov wrote on 13 Sep 2010 16:58:

an excerpt from a post


bardichev wrote on 08 Oct 2010 15:40:

bardichev wrote on 14 Dec 2010 15:48:

Brilliant. Wish I was on the forum when he was active. 

People may say that about you when you hit the ESC button like he did and leave technology behind in the twilight zone

Thank you for sharing these meaningful posts from the past. Brilliance. What ever happened to him?

Don't know assuming what happens to addicts when they get real...
They need to be in the real world not virtual