The fear of being shamed can be a deterrent to keep you from going off track of living a healthy lifestyle

Why don't we just all post with our real full names?
If you don't ever fall again, what's the problem?
And you'll be shamed if you fail.
NO. Someone on my group 196 made a $500 dollar (or even more 500 pound) kanas barrier. 
Surely, he won't want to lose all that money. So it will solve the problem, right? 
Well, he fell and now owes all that money. 
I would not risk that money, nor would I have a Rov see where my yetzer hara takes me, on occasion.
Do you think the Rov would agree to share with me when HE falls and does a big aveira?
Ridiculous.
My wife won't work, as discussed numerous times here on this thread.
Thanks for trying to help. But this idea will not help.
------------------------------------------
Mark, I would totally meet you!
Get in touch with Cord. 
OR send me a personal email.
I emailed you once when you were karma reffing, so you should have my address.
We may not live close by. But you never know. The world is small.

Yosef, I really feel for you. Emotions are running high. Such frustration. I remember it well.

Imagine an American coming over to England and driving down the right (not correct ) side of the road. He knows how to drive, he's been driving on the right side all his adult life. But every other driver honks his horn and shouts "you're going the wrong way!" Such frustration.

I hope you get to meet Markz.

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 16 Jan 2017 19:22:



Yosef,
You're differentiating between doing extreme things that WON'T work and things that you're not willing to do. There's a big difference.

And we all have things that we're not willing to do, some of which would actually help if we did. So I hear you.

The frustration is real.
What can I do to solve this problem?
If I don't figure it out, I'm VERY likely to just fall again, chas v'shalom.

In the driving example, he's got 2 main solutions:
he can decide to drive only in America and other places where the rules are the same,
and take taxis or buses and trains while in England, OR 
he can take his life in his hands and try to drive on the "wrong" I mean left side of the road,
and hope he remembers where all the cars are coming from and going and not get into an accident.

I  wrote in 303139 and 303144:

Just a little while ago, (AFTER posting my last comment) I took a shower and shave and had thoughts of maybe even failing again. Unbelievable!  Boruch HaShem, I passed this nisayon and got out of there, and did a mitzvah (instead). But I came really pretty close...definitely not rational!  Either the yetzer hara was just toying with me, taunting me, look how WEAK you are. Just give in and give up. Close down the thread, fade into the crowd again for a while...maybe years. OR it was HaShem showing me that He still loves me and giving me a pretty easy victory to make me feel better after just failing.  Maybe it was even both! HaShem rooting for me and trying to lift my spirits and help me feel close to Him, and the yetzer hara rooting against me, trying to destroy me and get me to give up.  Wow! Boruch HaShem, I decided to restrain my tyvahs and get out of there. Guess I'm ready to keep on monster trucking....as some might say. Have a great day!

Yosef Tikun HaYesod

Listened again to it. That minute of the coke addict fantasizing about getting high, Boruch HaShem,  does not describe my experience at all. 10:23-10:48 is very enlightening and helpful for me. I need to intervene and make sure I hit "x" and not leave the time and content controls open (when he gets his paycheck on Thursday afternoon, he is vulnerable, and when I change the time settings, I am vulnerable). I need to: 1. anticipate the problem (basic relapse prevention) 2. realize that the closer I get to the desired object, the less able I am going to be able to make good decisions for myself This 5-minute clip from Rav Shafier is so true too: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Music/mus/Telescope.mp3 I am determined to break this bad habit.  But it sure is difficult. I wanted to just join and start the count and succeed...and break free. And, I guess, some people do just that. Well, that hasn't happened to me. I've learned more of what I need to do to prevent myself from falling... AND YET I have fallen into the same trap: changing the time settings, then leaving it open, not "x"ing it out, then turning on videos/streaming, then seeing triggering beautiful women not dressed properly, then hours or days later, being horny and weak and feeling why not, I don't have it in real life and I want it and it's not so bad, it's a basic need, and then changing it to allow adult content and acting out. Pretty stupid for a smart guy. Kind of like eating so many french fries on Pesach that I have an upset stomach and feel like I may even throw up, and then having that exact same experience again on Sukkos! Am I an idiot? I'm a smart guy. So, why don't I know enough to NOT fall into the same trap? Don't say I'm addicted to french fries or overeating.  The same pitfalls, the same traps...it's embarrassing. I want to grow and to change for the better.  I don't want to keep fighting (and mainly losing) the same battles. I want to win and break the pattern of these bad habit behaviors. And I know it's possible. ACTING on what we KNOW to be true. Living it and not just talking about it. Screamed out of pain and frustration...it's a start.

I would like to hear people's comments on both of these posts.
And Mark, I'm still waiting for an email from you.

(just to get to the page)

welcome back doctor watson

Yosef i'll just say what works for me at times like these 

it sounds like you are hurt and confused and for good reason however IT MATTERS NOT if it was Hashem testing or the y"h these thought cause more harm than good we can't possibly figure out Hashems' wants thoughts or messages the only thing that DOES MATTER is that we pick ourselves up and KOMT by using these times as a stepping stool for growth and success by learning from these experiences.

hope this didn't come off as to hard... let us know how things are going

B'hatzlacha

Yosef Tikun Hayesod wrote:


Gee thanks - that's it?
I thought we were supposed to meet in that mens only coffee shop

My brother Yosef, you mentioned 34 potshots you're taking. I think gye has less than that number of tools

I have a shortened version in bottom of my sig "gye plenty solutions" 
How many of those have you tried in the sequence shown?

I hope you didn't start with the last one 

Yosef Tikun HaYesod wrote on 17 Jan 2017 12:08:

IMO what you can do to solve the problem is stop trying to figure it out.

You don't need to figure it out, others have already done so. Now is the time for action, not thought. In my experience, no amount of thinking or even understanding helped me at all. Only action helped.

Yosef,
I completely understand where you are coming from and i know your frustration, it is hard no one will deny that.
In response to your first post: i think hashem gave you this easy nisayon to overcome to make you feel good, so stop feeling bad and be proud of yourself.
Second:i think you need to take a step back and anticipate the problem, why do you fall? in what situations do you fall? As well, it could be you are going at this problem in the wrong way. it doesn't seem like the time limit and settings is helping you, although it might help someone else. However it could be somethign thtat doesn't help me could help you.

My tayere friend Yosef,
You seem to once again be getting very frustrated with the responses people are giving you. There seems to once again be a disconnect and misunderstanding going on. 
I have been watching and following your thread, becoming excited with your progress and sharing in your frustration over your pitfalls.
You seem to feel that you are doing plenty of work and putting actions into place to be able to stop falling and when people seem to be saying that you are not doing anything or the right things for recovery, it confuses, frustrates, and even angers you.

Therefore I would to point out some things.
There are many things that we try in order to get us to finally stop falling. Many of them are focused on the actual falling, the actual watching porn and masturbation. For example, tafsicks (or however the heck you spell it), filters, time restrictions, closing our eyes in the street as we bump into poles and buildings (and hopefully not women), pinching ourselves when we do something wrong and the list goes on and on. (There is probably at least one idea per poster on the forums)
The problem with all these things is that although they may be able to prevent us from acting out, as time goes on their influence and inspiration wane and eventually either they no longer work, stop being done, or our desires (or lust levels) raise up and overcome them.
And we fall again, and again. some work for hours, some for days, some for weeks and some longer. but they are all bound to fail at one point or another.

So you may ask, how is it that there are people that have long streaks of sobriety? How is it that there are people that come to GYE (or SA) and become sober forever one day at a time?

The way I see it, the answer is that the actions that these people take and the sacrifices that they go through, are on a different plane all together. These are the people that are not putting their time and efforts into stopping themselves from falling. They are not focusing on preventing themselves from getting into situations that are triggering and will ultimately lead them down the rabbit hole (I don't really know what that is or if it is just a GYE terminology. And since Cordnoy used the term once I can't google it as I have a kabala not to google anything i hear from Cords ) Yes they may be doing these things as well but it is not their focus. 

Their focus is on positive things. Learning how to live life properly. Learning how to live life in a way that doesn't lead us to porn, masturbation, or any other non healthy activities. 
They focus on the root of the issue, as we are won't to say "addiction is not the problem, it is the solution" The problem is the things that are causing us to want to escape, or to need to escape. the problem is what is happening inside our minds or our heart when we decide we need to sit down and watch streaming movies, or go on youtube, or watch porn. 
They focus on getting to know themselves better and understanding their emotions. How are they  feeling inside? Really feeling? honestly feeling? and then they try to figure out what is it that is causing those feelings. 
And once they can figure that out, then they are on their way to recovery for they now know where to focus their efforts and actions. By dealing with these main issues. honestly dealing with them because we can't trick ourselves. 
And by dealing with these underlying issues we were able to live life without having to escape from them, without having to ignore them, and that is recovery as i understand it. 
Yes sometimes we relapse and we forget to deal with life, but we have not fallen out of recovery because we are on the way to living life properly and healthily. 

When people tell you are not doing the right things for recovery, i believe this is what they meant. And this is the path that has worked for others and only this path has worked for them. To try to do something else and get sobriety is like driving on the other side of of the road in the wrong direction. You can make lomdus and chakiros fun heint biz morgen but at the end of the day you are going about things in a more difficult way and the chances of crashing before you get to your destination are very very high. 
I hope I have been able to shed some light and help you my dear friend. 
Una

Thanks Una. Very articulate.

Una,

That was some post.

Nice post. I do need to introspect and figure myself out and what makes me tick.
I doubt I can do that alone, though. Maybe over a coffee with you or Mark.

For me to truly understand what I'm "doing wrong", however, please tell me which things
that I've tried are "going the wrong direction headed for a crash" (not including #13, which the Rov said was worth a try):
1. posting daily updates on my experiences and feelings, as I keep trucking along
2. updating the 90-day chart daily
3. reading the 20 steps gye book, which I got printed out
4. reading the 30 attitudes book, which I got printed out
5. emailing several people from the forums
6. emailing a support buddy/coach/sponsor ( even trying a few different ones, to find the right one)
7. talking at length on the phone 3 times to Dov (well over 4 hours total)
8. talking with Cord, and deciding to meet someone who he thought to set me up with. 
9. meeting him, a "success story" from gye...and talking at length with him in person (for several hours)
10. removing all streaming capability from my computer "Cold Turkey"
11. putting on time limits when I can access my computer
12. talking and opening up to a Rov about my problem and the possibility of giving my son 1/2 a password
13. giving my son the second 1/2 of my password, so that I cannot change the time or content settings
14. listening to the 12-part series of shiurim by Rav Ben Zion Shafier on tyvah called The Fight
15. emailing him and receiving his notes on the lectures, and then transcribing the shiurim 
16. listening to the 17-part series of shiurim by Rav Simcha Feuerman on The Chasan Shmooze 
17. taking notes on them, so it sinks in better and in order to eventually email him some questions
18. emailing Yaakov for help, and deciding to try his suggestion of the taphsicshevua
19. figuring out all the components of the shevua, to give it the best chance of working
20. davening daily to HaShem for help to succeed and break free (this should have been 1st)
21. listening to Rav Fishel Shechter shiurim on Yosef HaTzadik and Chanuka and the parsha
22. transcribing some of the main points/insights and stories 
23. exercise-walking regularly (&maybe running) to relieve stress and tension and get in shape
24. strengthening my night seder of learning with my son
25. posting on several new guy's forum threads, trying to welcome them and help them 
26. making a few "date nights" with my wife, giving her more positive attention
27. going to a big Rav and having the chutzpah to ask how to succeed long-term and become a tzadik
28. instituting or reinstituting quality "family time" when I come home for dinner
29. opening up to a friend in real life, in person on a long walk
30. taking the SA are you addicted test / and a more involved 50 question test too
31. taking the actual shevua (hasn't happened yet, because I'm still deciding on the nusach)
32. going to the mikveh (hasn't happened yet, because I really dislike going, but I will once)
33. listening to music and trying to relax and "breathe" and calm down 
34. reading a long article and watching a couple of videos on breaking bad habits, 
and probably a few more things that I left out and can't think of now.

Firstly, i am not sure we can tell you what to do or not to do, we can only give suggestions. at the end of the day you need to figure out which one of these 34things are working for you and which aren't.
My opinion: I'm not sure#2,3,4 will help you stop, i think they'll just make you feel guilty when you fall, but i know there are different opinions on that. 
I do think there is a benefit in doing #1,5-9-although not sure if the talks need or should be that long.
#10-13 i don't think will work as you have tried them in the past and...
#14-17, 21,22 i could see that helping
#24,26,28,29 i think will be very beneficial as those would strengthen your bond with your family and encourage you to stop
#33,34 i can also see as being beneficial
Again, everyone has their own opinion and it boils down to what you think helps you
Feel free to inquire more from me or to explain